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Is "Time On = Time Off" Outdated?

showstopper83

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Nov 28, 2013
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My last pin was on 9/26- that next day, i had a bad case of rhabdomialysis, and along with work needing to be a priority and deciding i needed a break, i just stopped working out for 3 months and diet has been real bad.

Ive got the itch to get back at it, i have gained a good 15 or so pounds of fat while losing about 15 pounds of muscle.

Prior to coming off, i had been on for about 18 months straight, so it has been a long time since taking a break. Sexual function is not close to prime, but somehow intact.

I want to lose maybe 10 lbs of fat, maybe more before focusing on putting on muscle. Just started keto 2 days ago and on a small run of 200mg Dnp for 10 days to jumpstart fat burning, re-set insulin sensitivity and prime AR's for a new cycle.

Should i wait another month or two and just do cardio + keto before hopping back on? Mostly concerned about cortisol and myostatin levels being normalized so i can take full advantage. I am not even running a TRT dose of test, so im cold turkey.

What is my best bet here? Thanks guys.
 
To answer the question in your thread title, I'd certainly guess "yes". Seems like the norm is along the lines of blast and cruise. And I'd wonder how much appreciable progress over time any serious bodybuilder could be/is making by TRULY coming completely off for an equal amount of time that they're "on"...
 
I wouldn't say it was out dated only that it is out of favor. But popularity is not the same as what is best.

By "outdated" i mean has it been concluded that it is not necessary?

For example, an athlete being on an 8 week cycle of short esters, then taking 8 weeks off is a far cry from someone who blasted and cruised for 18 months and then came off cold turkey for 18 months.

I imagine there has to be some kind of point of diminishing returns after being off for X amount of months, no matter how long you were on.
 
I think determining drugs based off of health markers rather than arbitrary time makes more sense to me personally
Agree with this. If you have 10lbs of extra fat to loose that will probably do more for your health than perfect time off. I run 400mg year round my bloodwork is fine. If I was 220like I once was, I would probably be less healthy even if I did lower dosages and have more time off.
 
I think determining drugs based off of health markers rather than arbitrary time makes more sense to me personally
This I watch my heath markers. When off I'll cruise until they're right again and evaluate why they were off and fix it. I don't do high doses anymore so I can stay on longer.
 
I wouldn't say it was out dated only that it is out of favor. But popularity is not the same as what is best.
Exactly.. its not outdated .. just out of the limelight. It doesn't mean it's not a healthy way to do it. It just means people are not doing in favor of being on more..
 
Originally it was used before testing became easier to do, and more available. There is more of an answer to this question, but just pointing the difference between 'back then,' and now.
 
Exactly.. its not outdated .. just out of the limelight. It doesn't mean it's not a healthy way to do it. It just means people are not doing in favor of being on more..

Hey brother, thanks for the response. For someone in my case, who was "on" for about 18 months (never crazy doses and mini breaks in between), would there be any advantage of staying OFF completely for 18 months, or will maybe 2.5-3 months suffice, in terms of restoring AR sensitivity, balancing cortisol and myostatin?

My bloods are basically perfect, as is liver function, and i do not have fatty liver as measured by ultrasound.

Your recommendation for best course of action based on OP would be appreciated :)
 
The only way to say this with certainty is a long-term study looking at guys who do both which unfortunately can't happen. We have to go off anecdotal reports in communities like Professional Muscle - but there's definitely value in those.

It's not like the time on = time off idea was something scientifically studied and found to be ideal - it's just what guys did at one time. And we should all be aware of how many things the bodybuilding community has taken as dogma that aren't true - orals can only be used for 4 weeks max, you can't build legs without barbell squatting, etc.

I'd wager that we now know more about the health ramifications of testosterone levels, both higher and lower than normal, than guys did in that period. And one of the things that's been backed up by research in recent years is that below normal testosterone levels can be bad for overall health and lead to serious issues, cardiac and otherwise. Based on that, I'd say guys are better off coming down to a replacement dose for periods rather than going completely off and letting levels crash.

Personally, I've been using injectables for 6 years and have never come off. Early on I would go down to a legit replacement dose like 150mg / week, but the last 2 years I've gone to around 300mg to maximize how much size I retain since I've only got another year or 2 of going at this hardcore.
 
No point in coming off . I just cruise on a 400mg a week when I’m not “ ON “
 
By "outdated" i mean has it been concluded that it is not necessary?

For example, an athlete being on an 8 week cycle of short esters, then taking 8 weeks off is a far cry from someone who blasted and cruised for 18 months and then came off cold turkey for 18 months.

I imagine there has to be some kind of point of diminishing returns after being off for X amount of months, no matter how long you were on.
People used to come off as that though that was a healthier thing to do then staying on. Those that just stay on probably care less about their health long term or think they can take a pill to counter act the side effects later i would assume. But "back in the day" people worked on not shutting themselves down permanently. Now some 25 year olds just decide they will stay on a cycle forever. But like to call it cruising as it sounds better then saying they are on a cycle for life.
 
The only (close) people i recommend doing steroids are the ones that are in it for the long haul and live the lifestyle.

I would recommend them to stay on trt between cycles and not come completely off

Obviously with blood work done and make sure to have good levels
Before upping the dose at all
 
People used to come off as that though that was a healthier thing to do then staying on. Those that just stay on probably care less about their health long term or think they can take a pill to counter act the side effects later i would assume. But "back in the day" people worked on not shutting themselves down permanently. Now some 25 year olds just decide they will stay on a cycle forever. But like to call it cruising as it sounds better then saying they are on a cycle for life.

My bloods are fine, i feel fine and have miniscule fatty liver tissue according to ultrasound.

I was blasting and cruising for 18 months, and have not pinned anything in 3.5 months.

If I stay off longer, will my next cycle be any more effective in terms of my body's response to the gear?
 
The only way to say this with certainty is a long-term study looking at guys who do both which unfortunately can't happen. We have to go off anecdotal reports in communities like Professional Muscle - but there's definitely value in those.

It's not like the time on = time off idea was something scientifically studied and found to be ideal - it's just what guys did at one time. And we should all be aware of how many things the bodybuilding community has taken as dogma that aren't true - orals can only be used for 4 weeks max, you can't build legs without barbell squatting, etc.

I'd wager that we now know more about the health ramifications of testosterone levels, both higher and lower than normal, than guys did in that period. And one of the things that's been backed up by research in recent years is that below normal testosterone levels can be bad for overall health and lead to serious issues, cardiac and otherwise. Based on that, I'd say guys are better off coming down to a replacement dose for periods rather than going completely off and letting levels crash.

Personally, I've been using injectables for 6 years and have never come off. Early on I would go down to a legit replacement dose like 150mg / week, but the last 2 years I've gone to around 300mg to maximize how much size I retain since I've only got another year or 2 of going at this hardcore.

Basing any conclusion strictly on statistics is not entirely thorough- stats have their value, but every single "study" is devoid of countless variables, and can only truly speak to results with all the exact parameters in place for that specific study- so I agree with you, and would argue that there is as much or value in both anecdotal or personal experiences.

When you start getting into advanced, multi compound cycles, gh, slin, different diets, different types of training, God knows what supps/vitamins involved and individual genetics/response, the same protocol can and often does produce different results for different individuals.
 
My last pin was on 9/26- that next day, i had a bad case of rhabdomialysis, and along with work needing to be a priority and deciding i needed a break, i just stopped working out for 3 months and diet has been real bad.

Ive got the itch to get back at it, i have gained a good 15 or so pounds of fat while losing about 15 pounds of muscle.

Prior to coming off, i had been on for about 18 months straight, so it has been a long time since taking a break. Sexual function is not close to prime, but somehow intact.

I want to lose maybe 10 lbs of fat, maybe more before focusing on putting on muscle. Just started keto 2 days ago and on a small run of 200mg Dnp for 10 days to jumpstart fat burning, re-set insulin sensitivity and prime AR's for a new cycle.

Should i wait another month or two and just do cardio + keto before hopping back on? Mostly concerned about cortisol and myostatin levels being normalized so i can take full advantage. I am not even running a TRT dose of test, so im cold turkey.

What is my best bet here? Thanks guys.
If you are focusing on loosing some fat just wait until you reach your desired fat level then start if want.
To answer your question, you definitely don't need to be off for as long as you have been on, in my case I would have to be off for 23 years!
If you could wait 6 month it would be better but 3-4 months should be enough!
 
If we're saying ACTUALLY off, why would anyone do that now? If you're that flighty about working out you probably shouldn't be using in the first place.
I just drop to ~TRT for awhile.
 
My bloods are fine, i feel fine and have miniscule fatty liver tissue according to ultrasound.

I was blasting and cruising for 18 months, and have not pinned anything in 3.5 months.

If I stay off longer, will my next cycle be any more effective in terms of my body's response to the gear?
I don't buy into cleaning receptors out myself. But getting the body back to a more healthy level could add in growth. And would probably help keep the body healthy if you want to keep the muscle as long of term as you can. If being as big as possible now is your goal then being off for long periods probably wont help with that goal. But opinions vary.
 

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