Is "Time On = Time Off" Outdated?

[Cerberus777]

I don't buy into cleaning receptors out myself. But getting the body back to a more healthy level could add in growth. And would probably help keep the body healthy if you want to keep the muscle as long of term as you can. If being as big as possible now is your goal then being off for long periods probably wont help with that goal. But opinions vary.

I agree. Everything I've read says the body makes more when all receptor are used.

 

[showstopper83]

I don't buy into cleaning receptors out myself. But getting the body back to a more healthy level could add in growth. And would probably help keep the body healthy if you want to keep the muscle as long of term as you can. If being as big as possible now is your goal then being off for long periods probably wont help with that goal. But opinions vary.

The receptors thing doesn't seem to have any definitive answer, but i think myostatin/cortisol normalizing is a big thing- in that "Building The Perfect Beast" book, the author spoke about hard mini cycles with about 6 weeks off to allow cortisol and myostatin to return to baseline.

I am not a competitor and dont need to be exceptionally large, i just think it's pointless to run gear when you are no longer seeing results from it.

I do know that I inadvertently took 15 months off at one point, and when i decided to run my next cycle it felt like my first and i built new muscle tissue i never had before.

 

[buck]

The receptors thing doesn't seem to have any definitive answer, but i think myostatin/cortisol normalizing is a big thing- in that "Building The Perfect Beast" book, the author spoke about hard mini cycles with about 6 weeks off to allow cortisol and myostatin to return to baseline.

I am not a competitor and dont need to be exceptionally large, i just think it's pointless to run gear when you are no longer seeing results from it.

I do know that I inadvertently took 15 months off at one point, and when i decided to run my next cycle it felt like my first and i built new muscle tissue i never had before.

If that fresh feeling is what you r are looking for then time off will probably get you there. Feeling and results are not the same i find. Speed still burns fat even when it feels less, as an example. After a few decades of having the latest theory being seen as the holy grail i quit believing in such things. I figure we are closer now to having a slight understanding of how the body works, but still a far way from anything definitive. And to be honest is everything was mapped out exactly as to how things should go to be as monstrous as possible that would probably take some of the luster off it.

 

[showstopper83]

If that fresh feeling is what you r are looking for then time off will probably get you there. Feeling and results are not the same i find. Speed still burns fat even when it feels less, as an example. After a few decades of having the latest theory being seen as the holy grail i quit believing in such things. I figure we are closer now to having a slight understanding of how the body works, but still a far way from anything definitive. And to be honest is everything was mapped out exactly as to how things should go to be as monstrous as possible that would probably take some of the luster off it.

I hear what you are saying, i guess i meant the results more than the "feeling". Long story short, my muscle memory came back quick and new skeletal muscle seemed to be added to my frame that wasn't there.

 

[Cito33189]

If you’re not doing this professionally or making money I would say be off more than on. You mentioned your from socal. I live in SD learned a lot over the years. It’s not healthy to be on all the time. If it’s cosmetic utilize the drugs when you can show off your physique the most. Just my opinion.
Also I did what you did at one time and did cold turkey no test. Worst idea ever.
TRT is real and is needed for us guys who no longer produce test naturally. My levels came back at a 3. Basically had a vagina. I don’t think it’s blasting and cruising if you actually need it. Without taking TRT I won’t have any test in my system which is detrimental to a male.
Make sure to get your levels checked then you can make a better game plan.

 

[showstopper83]

If you’re not doing this professionally or making money I would say be off more than on. You mentioned your from socal. I live in SD learned a lot over the years. It’s not healthy to be on all the time. If it’s cosmetic utilize the drugs when you can show off your physique the most. Just my opinion.
Also I did what you did at one time and did cold turkey no test. Worst idea ever.
TRT is real and is needed for us guys who no longer produce test naturally. My levels came back at a 3. Basically had a vagina. I don’t think it’s blasting and cruising if you actually need it. Without taking TRT I won’t have any test in my system which is detrimental to a male.
Make sure to get your levels checked then you can make a better game plan.

Not sure where my test levels are at, last pin was 9/26 and sexual function is still intact. Not amazing, but it works.

My biggest problem with being off is i start getting fat too easily. My gf hates that i use gear and said she prefers me to be on the chubby side, i just dont like the way i look or feel when im chubby.

 

[buck]

I hear what you are saying, i guess i meant the results more than the "feeling". Long story short, my muscle memory came back quick and new skeletal muscle seemed to be added to my frame that wasn't there.

And you trained the same and ate the same slept the same, had the same stress in life etc. ? Not to be argumentative. But once one of those factors change saying it was just from the rest may not really apply. But feeling better can be a motivator in training

 

[cage99]

I used to do the time on = time off thing, but not anymore since I’m on TRT. I don’t follow any set protocols or anything. Just go by feel and bloodwork.

Cage

 

[A50#]

I think the big difference these days is people just don't come off anymore.

 

[mTOR25]

I don't buy into cleaning receptors out myself. But getting the body back to a more healthy level could add in growth. And would probably help keep the body healthy if you want to keep the muscle as long of term as you can. If being as big as possible now is your goal then being off for long periods probably wont help with that goal. But opinions vary.

We know very little about what's actually occurring though? Literally we are closer to a Theory of Everything in physics then we are to understanding how human biochemistry truly works!

I wrote a paper about the complexity of these 4 vector world lines and made a very compelling case that the most complex world lines in minkowski space time are in fact the human nervous system which is obviously true but made for a very fun interesting paper none the less!

I personally from my anecdotal findings think there is definitely a beneficial effect from coming down to atleast actual replacement doses and discontinuation of AAS beyond bioidenticals. I don't believe one needs to come completely off to reap the beneficial results but I think it's important to not keep it in the replacement range!

I am honestly quite shocked at people who fear losing a little bit of muscle and stay on 400mg of Testosterone EW plus other compounds during there cruise? This just means one would require much higher doses of AAS to achieve comparable results and all the negative side effects! I personally do this for fun so I utilize very modest dosing protocols and I am extremely careful of minimizing the risks!

 

[showstopper83]

And you trained the same and ate the same slept the same, had the same stress in life etc. ? Not to be argumentative. But once one of those factors change saying it was just from the rest may not really apply. But feeling better can be a motivator in training

Im not sure what exactly you are asking, brother. Same as when?

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

My biggest problem with being off is i start getting fat too easily. My gf hates that i use gear and said she prefers me to be on the chubby side, i just dont like the way i look or feel when im chubby.

MY EXPERIENCE (so please don't take personal offense), is that women want you to look like less of a catch because they don't want to put forth the effort to be on an even playing field. Whether it's in their head and not true, or very real, seems to always be part of the motivation IMO.
I may also be jaded, and simply not believe any of them (why would I when they claim to LIKE fattness?).

 

[showstopper83]

MY EXPERIENCE (so please don't take personal offense), is that women want you to look like less of a catch because they don't want to put forth the effort to be on an even playing field. Whether it's in their head and not true, or very real, seems to always be part of the motivation IMO.
I may also be jaded, and simply not believe any of them (why would I when they claim to LIKE fattness?).

There is a lot of truth to what you say, but I believe a lot of also is that they feel less threatened that you will cheat on them or leave them if "something better" comes along. My gf is gorgeous and she admitted this when i pressed her on it. She has a friend who is a swimsuit model who was with some unattractive guy who ended up being a douchebag, and her logic behind it was "well maybe if i pick a guy who isnt that good looking, he'll appreciate what he has so much that he treats me great and won't cheat on me. Well, he did, but that's another story.

There are a lot of girls who think like that, believe it or not.

 

[beast405]

I think determining drugs based off of health markers rather than arbitrary time makes more sense to me personally

I agree

 

[beast405]

A day natty is a day wasted!

That’s a fuckin fact !

 

[beast405]

Not sure where my test levels are at, last pin was 9/26 and sexual function is still intact. Not amazing, but it works.

My biggest problem with being off is i start getting fat too easily. My gf hates that i use gear and said she prefers me to be on the chubby side, i just dont like the way i look or feel when im chubby.

I don’t know your gf (obviously) but I can ALMOST assure you she doesn’t like your look better when you are chubby. But I’m sure it makes her feel more secure in the relationship because less girls look at you etc. I hear this bs all the time. They will say “oh I don’t like guys with muscles or I prefer guys skinny or chubby”. I’m like yeah ok. We all know that’s not true. They may like being in a relationship with a guy who is out of shape because the guy doesn’t have many other options and makes them feel more secure in the relationship but they will always be looking at the guys who are in shape or muscular and want to fuck them. Lol just being honest !

 

[beast405]

My last pin was on 9/26- that next day, i had a bad case of rhabdomialysis, and along with work needing to be a priority and deciding i needed a break, i just stopped working out for 3 months and diet has been real bad.

Ive got the itch to get back at it, i have gained a good 15 or so pounds of fat while losing about 15 pounds of muscle.

Prior to coming off, i had been on for about 18 months straight, so it has been a long time since taking a break. Sexual function is not close to prime, but somehow intact.

I want to lose maybe 10 lbs of fat, maybe more before focusing on putting on muscle. Just started keto 2 days ago and on a small run of 200mg Dnp for 10 days to jumpstart fat burning, re-set insulin sensitivity and prime AR's for a new cycle.

Should i wait another month or two and just do cardio + keto before hopping back on? Mostly concerned about cortisol and myostatin levels being normalized so i can take full advantage. I am not even running a TRT dose of test, so im cold turkey.

What is my best bet here? Thanks guys.

Imo I think once gear is started you should always stay on a trt dose in between cycles.

 

[qbkilla]

The receptors thing doesn't seem to have any definitive answer, but i think myostatin/cortisol normalizing is a big thing- in that "Building The Perfect Beast" book, the author spoke about hard mini cycles with about 6 weeks off to allow cortisol and myostatin to return to baseline.

I am not a competitor and dont need to be exceptionally large, i just think it's pointless to run gear when you are no longer seeing results from it.

I do know that I inadvertently took 15 months off at one point, and when i decided to run my next cycle it felt like my first and i built new muscle tissue i never had before.

Interesting I haven't read it. Is there a test where we can get our myostatin levels? As for cortisol, does gear actually cause it to rise? I always run 400mg about and got cortisol tested recently it was in range. Has anyone seen bloodwork of someone out of range on the forums?

 

[qbkilla]

I don’t know your gf (obviously) but I can ALMOST assure you she doesn’t like your look better when you are chubby. But I’m sure it makes her feel more secure in the relationship because less girls look at you etc. I hear this bs all the time. They will say “oh I don’t like guys with muscles or I prefer guys skinny or chubby”. I’m like yeah ok. We all know that’s not true. They may like being in a relationship with a guy who is out of shape because the guy doesn’t have many other options and makes them feel more secure in the relationship but they will always be looking at the guys who are in shape or muscular and want to fuck them. Lol just being honest !

I tend to agree with this. There May be a small percentage of woman who like some chub, but carrying body fat in general I think is a turn off to women.. I see hot girls with skinny guys all the time but if I see one with a guy who has some chub he's either tall or has $$.

I used to see a girl and she likes my physique I assume I was probably a lean 195. I showed her a pic when I was a permabulked 240 from years ago her response was "awwww ". She said I look better smaller but look more cocky/asshole. But look friendlier and more approachable with more muscle fat like a big friendly teddy bear. Lol

 

[showstopper83]

I don’t know your gf (obviously) but I can ALMOST assure you she doesn’t like your look better when you are chubby. But I’m sure it makes her feel more secure in the relationship because less girls look at you etc. I hear this bs all the time. They will say “oh I don’t like guys with muscles or I prefer guys skinny or chubby”. I’m like yeah ok. We all know that’s not true. They may like being in a relationship with a guy who is out of shape because the guy doesn’t have many other options and makes them feel more secure in the relationship but they will always be looking at the guys who are in shape or muscular and want to fuck them. Lol just being honest !

I hear what you are saying, and there are definitely A LOT of girls like that... but i have known her for 20 years and know when she is being stubborn and when she's not. I am not trying to brag, but she is constantly getting pursued and hit on by ultra successful, ultra attractive men, some who or much more fit than me. She is so used to it that it has become annoying to her, because most of those men are arrogant and full of themselves and she doesn't want to stroke their ego.

In OUR world, muscles and fitness mean everything, and we assign a direct correlation between muscles on men and attraction. Women can be weird, and attracted to different things.

There are a number of girls who prefer super skinny guys; think like punk rock world- and some of those chicks are smoking hot!

She has told me she has had convos with a couple of her gf's in private that they think "dad bods" are hot.

It is a little disappointing to me as i wish she WAS into that, but people have their own different quirks as far as attraction and sexuality goes.

For instance, not everyone likes eating ass- can you believe THAT?!? Lol