Is tren considered an anabolic

[KillerStack]

Do mean molecular weight?

I'm betting "potency" is more meaning solubility in a given amount of carrier. It's why primo is an enanthate ester and comes in 100mg/ml max 200 and why test E can easily be 200-300 or a bit higher.

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[OuchThatHurts]

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Okay, I see now. What he's saying is that the natural 0.5mg testosterone per day exposes a female to less "androgen molecules" per day than if she adds 10mg Anavar per day.

He concludes that 10mg extra testosterone per week preferable to 10mg Anavar per day (a totally apples to oranges comparison) in females in the way of virilizing effects. I have no way to verify this highly dubious claim. He provides not a single reference. Highly recommend female competitors not do this until they have some idea of how much virilization (genetic expression) Anavar produces in them personally. Because I'm fairly confident testosterone (which he suggests) most assuredly will.

Also, there are androgenic molecules (vs "androgen molecules") but he goes on to group any compound as an "androgen molecule" simply in terms of their total number of molecules which is ridiculous.

For example, take an equal number of diazepam molecules one day to the same amount of clonazepam molecules on a different day. Are the effects comparable? Hell no.

 

[Sully1234]

I’m playing around with test/trest+mast right now, but I haven’t got it right yet….super water buffalo, or lethargic from pseudo low E2.

But I’m thicker than a snicker and look damn good the one day out of the week the balance is right lol

Damn. I was just about to start that myself... Mind sharing doses and how each adjustment has worked? What is pseduo low E2?

I was planning test/trest/mast of 125/100/100.

 

[juggy38]

Damn. I was just about to start that myself... Mind sharing doses and how each adjustment has worked? What is pseduo low E2?

I was planning test/trest/mast of 125/100/100.

Ok first off i was running 15mg trest ED….felt ehh…(mood wise). Strong and full in the gym. Added 10mg test ED with it. Mood better, but bloat and BP jumped ALOT, nipples started itching. Added 500mg mast week 3 and my energy tanked. Needing naps, felt like shit. (When i get low E2 or pseudo low E2 I get extremely tired mid day)

So I scrapped all of it. Now, I’m running 10mg trest ED, 10mg test Ed and 300mg mast.

 

[juggy38]

And I’m not saying the test caused the side jump so bad. It was probably coming, just too early to tell week one.

My AI was 12.5 aromasin M and TH which probably wasn’t enough for 15mg trest for me, and the test just added to the fire.

 

[b-boy]

And I’m not saying the test caused the side jump so bad. It was probably coming, just too early to tell week one.

My AI was 12.5 aromasin M and TH which probably wasn’t enough for 15mg trest for me, and the test just added to the fire.

Did you get bloodwork throughout this cycle or where you just throwing shit against the wall hoping for it to stick?

 

[gains4000]

And I’m not saying the test caused the side jump so bad. It was probably coming, just too early to tell week one.

My AI was 12.5 aromasin M and TH which probably wasn’t enough for 15mg trest for me, and the test just added to the fire.

AI cannot control trestolones synthetic estrogen metabolite.

 

[SouthernMuscle]

AI cannot control trestolones synthetic estrogen metabolite.

By what mechanism is this synthetic estrogen metabolite produced

 

[gains4000]

By what mechanism is this synthetic estrogen metabolite produced

it aromatizes in the liver unlike Testosterone. It Creates Methyl-Estrogen. The conversion of the natural C19 steroids, testosterone and androstenedione, into estradiol-17beta and estrone is dependent on the oxidative elimination of the angular C19-methyl group. This complex key reaction is catalyzed by the cytochrome P450 aromatase, which is expressed in many tissues of the adult human (e.g. ovary, fat tissue), but not in the liver. However, 19-nortestosterone derivatives are characterized by the lack of the C19-methyl group. Therefore, for the aromatization of these synthetic steroids, the action of the cytochrome P450 aromatase is not necessary and the oxidative introduction of double bonds into the A-ring can be catalyzed by other hepatic cytochrome P450 enzymes.

You can't see how much methyl-estrogen is in your blood which makes it even more complex

 

[juggy38]

Did you get bloodwork throughout this cycle or where you just throwing shit against the wall hoping for it to stick?

Like @gains4000 stated, from my research (whichmight be flawed but @Type-IIx thinks also) 7α-methylestradiol likely isn't detected by E2 ultrasensitive tests. And we can’t quantify masterons ability to lower estrogen expression at the non receptor level.

Bloodwork wouldn’t help much running these two in tandem.

 

[juggy38]

So yes, you have to throw some shit at the wall and see if it sticks

 

[b-boy]

So yes, you have to throw some shit at the wall and see if it sticks

How did you come up with using 12.5 aromasin twice weekly? (what brought you to the decision of using this)

 

[SouthernMuscle]

it aromatizes in the liver unlike Testosterone. It Creates Methyl-Estrogen. The conversion of the natural C19 steroids, testosterone and androstenedione, into estradiol-17beta and estrone is dependent on the oxidative elimination of the angular C19-methyl group. This complex key reaction is catalyzed by the cytochrome P450 aromatase, which is expressed in many tissues of the adult human (e.g. ovary, fat tissue), but not in the liver. However, 19-nortestosterone derivatives are characterized by the lack of the C19-methyl group. Therefore, for the aromatization of these synthetic steroids, the action of the cytochrome P450 aromatase is not necessary and the oxidative introduction of double bonds into the A-ring can be catalyzed by other hepatic cytochrome P450 enzymes.

You can't see how much methyl-estrogen is in your blood which makes it even more complex

What enzymes

 

[KillerStack]

Okay, I see now. What he's saying is that the natural 0.5mg testosterone per day exposes a female to less "androgen molecules" per day than if she adds 10mg Anavar per day.

He concludes that 10mg extra testosterone per week preferable to 10mg Anavar per day (a totally apples to oranges comparison) in females in the way of virilizing effects. I have no way to verify this highly dubious claim. He provides not a single reference. Highly recommend female competitors not do this until they have some idea of how much virilization (genetic expression) Anavar produces in them personally. Because I'm fairly confident testosterone (which he suggests) most assuredly will.

Also, there are androgenic molecules (vs "androgen molecules") but he goes on to group any compound as an "androgen molecule" simply in terms of their total number of molecules which is ridiculous.

For example, take an equal number of diazepam molecules one day to the same amount of clonazepam molecules on a different day. Are the effects comparable? Hell no.

I'm pretty sure female HRT is THE thing to do right now. I'm not completely sure about doses but I think they may be around 5-10mg PER WEEK. This from those longevity clinics. Even a low dose testosterone, which might only get the female to the upper end of their natural range, depending on how much risk they are willing to take, I bet is noticeably effective over time. Furthermore, I just bet this is wildly popular in tested sports like Crossfit. Combine with growth hormone and insulin at times and you have a stack with quick clearance for meets.

I forgot who, but someone said no woman ever wants to get off HRT doses of test, the perceived increase in life quality is so great. Big boost in sex drive, mood and of course response to lifting. At those low dosages, if raised very slowly to assess tolerance, might not be very virilizing at all?

Yeah I don't think much of that fellas theory, never saw anyone speculate in that direction.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I'm pretty sure female HRT is THE thing to do right now. I'm not completely sure about doses but I think they may be around 5-10mg PER WEEK. This from those longevity clinics. Even a low dose testosterone, which might only get the female to the upper end of their natural range, depending on how much risk they are willing to take, I bet is noticeably effective over time. Furthermore, I just bet this is wildly popular in tested sports like Crossfit. Combine with growth hormone and insulin at times and you have a stack with quick clearance for meets.

I forgot who, but someone said no woman ever wants to get off HRT doses of test, the perceived increase in life quality is so great. Big boost in sex drive, mood and of course response to lifting. At those low dosages, if raised very slowly to assess tolerance, might not be very virilizing at all?

Yeah I don't think much of that fellas theory, never saw anyone speculate in that direction.

True. I wasn't even puzzled so much regarding the dosages he suggested. If that works, that works. Even 1mg/day is 2 to 10 times what the average female produces endogenously. But using total net number of molecules as a guideline for amounts used that was new to me. If that were the case, then there would no difference in 5 x 10²⁰ "androgen molecules" of primo vs 5 x 10²⁰ molecules of tren. Now THAT is something I hadn't heard before. If true, there would no point in stacking multiple compounds ever.

 

[hawkmoon]

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Dean says some odd stuff in my humble opinion.

Testosterone and oxandrolone are themselves molecules, neither have more "molecules" than the other. Oxandrolone has a few more atoms in it's molecular structure, but nothing supports what he is putting forth.

Oxandrolone (C19H30O3) has a molecular weight of approximately 306.44 g/mol. Its molecular formula indicates that it contains 19 carbon atoms, 30 hydrogen atoms, and 3 oxygen atoms.

Testosterone (C19H28O2) has a molecular weight of approximately 288.42 g/mol. Its molecular formula indicates that it contains 19 carbon atoms, 28 hydrogen atoms, and 2 oxygen atoms.

So, oxandrolone has a greater molecular weight than testosterone, but not really all that significant.

 

[hawkmoon]

Dean says some odd stuff in my humble opinion.

Testosterone and oxandrolone are themselves molecules, neither have more "molecules" than the other. Oxandrolone has a few more atoms in it's molecular structure, but nothing supports what he is putting forth.

Oxandrolone (C19H30O3) has a molecular weight of approximately 306.44 g/mol. Its molecular formula indicates that it contains 19 carbon atoms, 30 hydrogen atoms, and 3 oxygen atoms.

Testosterone (C19H28O2) has a molecular weight of approximately 288.42 g/mol. Its molecular formula indicates that it contains 19 carbon atoms, 28 hydrogen atoms, and 2 oxygen atoms.

So, oxandrolone has a greater molecular weight than testosterone, but not really all that significant.

As my math skills are horrific I asked ChatGPT-4 to do the math for me calculating molecules per 10mg of each drug:

To compare the number of molecules in equal masses of two substances, we can use the following equation:

Number of molecules = (mass of substance) / (molecular weight) × (Avogadro's number)

Avogadro's number is approximately 6.022 × 10^23, which is the number of entities (atoms, ions, or molecules) in one mole of a substance.

Let's calculate the number of molecules for 10 mg of each substance.

1. For oxandrolone (molecular weight = 306.44 g/mol):

Number of moles = (10 mg) / (306.44 g/mol) = 0.010 g / 306.44 g/mol ≈ 0.0000326 moles

Number of molecules = 0.0000326 moles × (6.022 × 10^23) ≈ 1.96 × 10^20 molecules

2. For testosterone (molecular weight = 288.42 g/mol):

Number of moles = (10 mg) / (288.42 g/mol) = 0.010 g / 288.42 g/mol ≈ 0.0000347 moles

Number of molecules = 0.0000347 moles × (6.022 × 10^23) ≈ 2.09 × 10^20 molecules

In conclusion, 10 mg of oxandrolone has fewer molecules than 10 mg of testosterone, as oxandrolone has a greater molecular weight.

 

[Mufasa123]

. Now THAT is something I hadn't heard before. If true, there would no point in stacking multiple compounds ever.

Except that we know different compounds have very different pharmacological effects even normalizing for this. DHT derivatives vs 19 Nor or trest/tren/halo/cheque drops for more extreme. It's the whole reason they synthesized these variants rather than just modulating the dose of basic testosterone.

 

[gains4000]

Like @gains4000 stated, from my research (whichmight be flawed but @Type-IIx thinks also) 7α-methylestradiol likely isn't detected by E2 ultrasensitive tests. And we can’t quantify masterons ability to lower estrogen expression at the non receptor level.

Bloodwork wouldn’t help much running these two in tandem.

As long as you have a favorable androgen to estrogen ratio, you should be good. Unfortunately it is harder to dial in on drugs that don't show up on bloods so you have to just go by feel. For me its still worth using Trestolone. Trest and Mast is a really good combo, i never felt the need to add Test to it.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

Dean says some odd stuff in my humble opinion.

I don't follow him on IG. I'm not an IG guy bc I have nothing to promote. But what I don't get, I mean understand, is this guy has a line of nutritional health supplements. It appears that way. Maybe I'm mistaken. But if so, why not weigh in on his own production facilities and standards of quality instead of weighing in on PEDs? What EXACTLY is being sold here? It never ceases to amaze me the cult following amassed even by users here that drop in when sales slump to let us know that they're actually LOSING MONEY on selling you their products? "Hey, you're robbing ME, here!" Good grief.

Anyway, he knows consumers of nutritional supps (huge % of fitness freaks, gym rats, and wannabe BBers) have been burned by these types of products in the past. Why say some of these things when he knows people are going to take it to the trenches and... oh wait...

No. They don't. They never verify! After all, it sounds good, it seems right. Can't argue with science right? But look at some of the prices on some of this stuff.

I honestly think that for you marketing majors out there, that you could be (if you aren't already) making a very healthy living offering marketing strategies to these few thousand cos in a sea of millions of buyers (biz and personal) that offer these products.