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John Jewitt on telmisartan

I follow Victor Black on Instagram (John J as well) and the amount of usable, free content Victor puts out is insane! ALL (100%) of it backed up by published clinical studies/evidence. You're absolutely allowed...and even encouraged...to refute anything he says. His only rule is you need to produce clinical evidence to back up your statement or claims...no bro science! He preaches from a podium of "safer use models" and "let's plan out the next 20 years...not just the next 20 weeks." He totally gets that guys will use a gram of AAS, add in insulin, and throw in 4-6iu of gh. He doesn't crucify you for that....just understand that there's consequences for that over the long term. He's trying to get guys to understand that if you live this lifestyle there's a safer, longer-term way to do it and still reach your goals while being healthier. He also believes everyone is a genetically-unique individual and responds differently to the introduction of various compounds and dosages. By the way, here are the benefits of telmisartan as reported in clinical studies at dosages as low as 20mg/day:
  1. Modulates BP
  2. Lowers hematocrit
  3. Modulates water retention
  4. Mitigates cardiac remodeling/LVH
  5. Mitigates kidney stress
  6. Improves insulin resistance
  7. Improves lipid profile - increases HDL
  8. Possible myostatin inhibitor
It doesn't take much over TRT-level doses and adding in a secondary compound to start negatively affecting our health markers. Again, keeping in mind that we're all genetically unique individuals.

As a 52-year old guy who's been doing this a long time...and who still wants to be doing it in 20 years because I enjoy it...I'm all about safer-use models and adding in stuff like telmisartan if it can make a positive difference. Stay safe out there guys!!
Sure if your blood pressure is high, telmisartan makes sense. It has some ancillary benefits. Just know that It also may cause:
1a. potassium dysregulation, e.g. hyperkalemia (increased potassium retention despite its direct action), and 1b. electrolyte imbalance
2. ALT/AST elevation that can complicate oral androgen use
3. severe hypotension for those with salt/electrolyte depletion or prolonged diuretic use
4a. kidney/renal (GFR, eGFR) dysfunction (yes, even though it's used as a therapeutic for diabetic nephropathy - kidney function should be monitored with use of this drug), and with those that have decreased cardiac function (e.g., heart failure) can cause 4b. acute kidney failure

Some drug-drug interactions:
Unfavorable: decreased tamoxifen metabolism; diuretics (this should be obvious)
Unclear: decreased raloxifene excretion resulting in a higher serum level
Favorable (I'd add to the list of benefits): decreased excretion rate of testosterone resulting in a higher serum level
 
I understand the concern about people misusing Tel, but like i said before.
There are FAR MORE idiots who need to use this for its benefits than there are people who will misuse it when they don't need to.
We're making it sound like there are wayyyyy more intelligent BBers then there actually are lol

Also don't want to make this a Victor thread at all, but we all saw him when he was there.
Victor wants to talk to semi-educated and smarter gear users. Basically, like ProM members.
The problem is that there ANOTHER level of understanding above us...and its guys who truly KNOW and UNDERSTAND the studies.
Like Stewie and Type-IIx here. There are a handful of guys like this on PM and we are very greatful for them.
Some of those said dudes questioned a couple of studies and his "findings." I have seen a couple others, NON PM members, who have poiinted someo out as well. Victor does/did not react well to that. Hard push back and not wanting to discuss.

I respect Victor, i have chatted with him on IG several times, but he gets a bit flustered when theres ANOTHER person who can interpret the studies as well as he can and if/when they have a different conclusion, he hasnt wanted to have that discussion. Nothing wrong with that and I'm happy with the amount of free and great info he gives. But I dont take everything he says as a bible verse.

Off topic though. Back to Telmi and JJ.
Btw, thought he had a great episode on Foad's podcast the other week.
 
I understand the concern about people misusing Tel, but like i said before.
There are FAR MORE idiots who need to use this for its benefits than there are people who will misuse it when they don't need to.
We're making it sound like there are wayyyyy more intelligent BBers then there actually are lol

Also don't want to make this a Victor thread at all, but we all saw him when he was there.
Victor wants to talk to semi-educated and smarter gear users. Basically, like ProM members.
The problem is that there ANOTHER level of understanding above us...and its guys who truly KNOW and UNDERSTAND the studies.
Like Stewie and Type-IIx here. There are a handful of guys like this on PM and we are very greatful for them.
Some of those said dudes questioned a couple of studies and his "findings." I have seen a couple others, NON PM members, who have poiinted someo out as well. Victor does/did not react well to that. Hard push back and not wanting to discuss.

I respect Victor, i have chatted with him on IG several times, but he gets a bit flustered when theres ANOTHER person who can interpret the studies as well as he can and if/when they have a different conclusion, he hasnt wanted to have that discussion. Nothing wrong with that and I'm happy with the amount of free and great info he gives. But I dont take everything he says as a bible verse.

Off topic though. Back to Telmi and JJ.
Btw, thought he had a great episode on Foad's podcast the other week.
Ya, look at fouad abiad. He has kidney damage because he had uncontrolled bp because he didn’t know you could take bp meds and be a bodybuilder
 
I think GotGame was one of the first guys, many years back, who was in favor of using Telmisartan for both possible cardiac-remodeling purposes and BP issues. As a disclaimer for proof of that (the remodeling part), he even stated many times he could not give clinical studies to prove his theory, but he mentioned that he thought strongly for it's use in this area.

I think it is a great benefit for many people to use it, especially if BP is an issue, or any chance of it preventing the cardiac remodeling. That said, if one is super healthy and only using minor doses (or none at all as a natty), it should probably not be used. I think older, long-term users would be ideal, especially if they ramp the doses up, or have family history issues.
 
My $$ is still on the table! Grow a pair of balls and go call him out with studies to back your claim, but we both know you are not going to do that, your not going to leave the safety of this board because you will then be EXPOSED! Talk is cheap, I have offered you free money 💰

I am not a member of Victor's site. But isn't it true that he promotes Telmisartan as a staple even before BP issues? He has mentioned that Telmisartan can be given to normotensive folks without any problems, posted a study reference showing such. And what is the likelihood that a guy who is on 300 test and 200 mast has uncontrolled hypertension? Just the other day he posted about a guy who is on those drugs as well as 10iu of Lantus.
My impression is that he does put Telmisartan in his plans as a staple many times? Do I have the wrong impression?

My opinion is that Victor has a very disagreeable online personality. If anyone makes even a pretty innocuous comment on his page or if someone wasn't happy with his services (though he offers money back if unhappy for any reason) he humiliates these people on his page. All the time he tells people to just stfu and listen without talking because he has the uncontested best education in bb. And if someone contests his info he says he himself would never go on someone else's page to challenge them so don't do it on his page. So he doesn't like it even though he says everyone is welcome to.
I didn't see the Rex Feral exchange but apparently he just banned Rex because you just don't challenge Victor. And all this constant whining about giving too much free info, how he would make so much more money if he shut his IG down completely. Lol right, complete bullshit, no one gives up IG as a promotional tool. Didn't he lower his rates for master class again despite it being a steal and how he should instead charge much more? Lol.
Most of his posts are about him bragging about himself and complaining about others.

He does have some good info, that's not the problem to me.
 
I am not a member of Victor's site. But isn't it true that he promotes Telmisartan as a staple even before BP issues? He has mentioned that Telmisartan can be given to normotensive folks without any problems, posted a study reference showing such. And what is the likelihood that a guy who is on 300 test and 200 mast has uncontrolled hypertension? Just the other day he posted about a guy who is on those drugs as well as 10iu of Lantus.
My impression is that he does put Telmisartan in his plans as a staple many times? Do I have the wrong impression?

My opinion is that Victor has a very disagreeable online personality. If anyone makes even a pretty innocuous comment on his page or if someone wasn't happy with his services (though he offers money back if unhappy for any reason) he humiliates these people on his page. All the time he tells people to just stfu and listen without talking because he has the uncontested best education in bb. And if someone contests his info he says he himself would never go on someone else's page to challenge them so don't do it on his page. So he doesn't like it even though he says everyone is welcome to.
I didn't see the Rex Feral exchange but apparently he just banned Rex because you just don't challenge Victor. And all this constant whining about giving too much free info, how he would make so much more money if he shut his IG down completely. Lol right, complete bullshit, no one gives up IG as a promotional tool. Didn't he lower his rates for master class again despite it being a steal and how he should instead charge much more? Lol.
Most of his posts are about him bragging about himself and complaining about others.

He does have some good info, that's not the problem to me.
Killerstack,
He and I HAD several discussion on IG...and then he blocked me lol
We were going back and forth on some EQ and tren discussion. THOUGHT it was an interesting debate haha guess he didn't.
 
I am not a member of Victor's site. But isn't it true that he promotes Telmisartan as a staple even before BP issues? He has mentioned that Telmisartan can be given to normotensive folks without any problems, posted a study reference showing such. And what is the likelihood that a guy who is on 300 test and 200 mast has uncontrolled hypertension? Just the other day he posted about a guy who is on those drugs as well as 10iu of Lantus.
My impression is that he does put Telmisartan in his plans as a staple many times? Do I have the wrong impression?

My opinion is that Victor has a very disagreeable online personality. If anyone makes even a pretty innocuous comment on his page or if someone wasn't happy with his services (though he offers money back if unhappy for any reason) he humiliates these people on his page. All the time he tells people to just stfu and listen without talking because he has the uncontested best education in bb. And if someone contests his info he says he himself would never go on someone else's page to challenge them so don't do it on his page. So he doesn't like it even though he says everyone is welcome to.
I didn't see the Rex Feral exchange but apparently he just banned Rex because you just don't challenge Victor. And all this constant whining about giving too much free info, how he would make so much more money if he shut his IG down completely. Lol right, complete bullshit, no one gives up IG as a promotional tool. Didn't he lower his rates for master class again despite it being a steal and how he should instead charge much more? Lol.
Most of his posts are about him bragging about himself and complaining about others.

He does have some good info, that's not the problem to me.
His marketing skills suck that I agree on!
Yes he recommends telmisartan to normal blood pressure people in our tribe for its PROTECTIVE QUALITIES (how can you argue with that).
I have never seen victor tell someone to STFU? If they have an argument and it begins with "I feel" and you bring no scientific literature to back your feelings then I would tell people to STFU but have not seen him say it, yes he will post your feelings post and probably embarrass you but you should have known the rules before engaging him he states the rules 1000 fucking times, come with scientific literature as the basis of your disagreement and he will talk with you about the study, if proven wrong he will happily admit it!
 
Killerstack,
He and I HAD several discussion on IG...and then he blocked me lol
We were going back and forth on some EQ and tren discussion. THOUGHT it was an interesting debate haha guess he didn't.
What studies did you bring for proof of your arguments? Can you post them here?
 
His marketing skills suck that I agree on!
Yes he recommends telmisartan to normal blood pressure people in our tribe for its PROTECTIVE QUALITIES (how can you argue with that).
I have never seen victor tell someone to STFU? If they have an argument and it begins with "I feel" and you bring no scientific literature to back your feelings then I would tell people to STFU but have not seen him say it, yes he will post your feelings post and probably embarrass you but you should have known the rules before engaging him he states the rules 1000 fucking times, come with scientific literature as the basis of your disagreement and he will talk with you about the study, if proven wrong he will happily admit it!
Yeah, Victor is a real marketing moron. He's got you divining his name like an incantation in completely unrelated threads, offering money to argue with him on instagram, and making more contradictory arguments (NOT for you qbkilla, you're SMOL... it's for our TRIBE, from the Silverback himself!) [grin]
 
What studies did you bring for proof of your arguments? Can you post them here?
I didnt bring him studies. I was asking HIM for a reference or a link to something.
Didn't want to do that nor did he want to discuss it anymore.
 
Sure if your blood pressure is high, telmisartan makes sense. It has some ancillary benefits. Just know that It also may cause:
1a. potassium dysregulation, e.g. hyperkalemia (increased potassium retention despite its direct action), and 1b. electrolyte imbalance
2. ALT/AST elevation that can complicate oral androgen use
3. severe hypotension for those with salt/electrolyte depletion or prolonged diuretic use
4a. kidney/renal (GFR, eGFR) dysfunction (yes, even though it's used as a therapeutic for diabetic nephropathy - kidney function should be monitored with use of this drug), and with those that have decreased cardiac function (e.g., heart failure) can cause 4b. acute kidney failure

Some drug-drug interactions:
Unfavorable: decreased tamoxifen metabolism; diuretics (this should be obvious)
Unclear: decreased raloxifene excretion resulting in a higher serum level
Favorable (I'd add to the list of benefits): decreased excretion rate of testosterone resulting in a higher serum level
There's so much misinformation in your post I don't even know what to begin with...
 
There's so much misinformation in your post I don't even know what to begin with...
Why don't you start with a single incorrect statement therein, and I'll provide the reference in response.
 
on the topic of Victor, what do you guys personally believe about his recommendations for dosages. I know he is in the group to only take as much test as you possible can without needing an ai. My question is, is using 1mg per week really hurting you that much? i know in his model most cap out at 2-300 test max per week because he doesnt want anyone taking an ai. From a risk to gains perspective though upping test to get more gains but needing to use say 1mg Adex a week, is that really causing your body that much harm?

I dont want to speak for him but im assuming john is now in that group as well and only having most people do 2-300 test and then boatloads of primo and/or mast to grow with since he parrots alot of what victor black says.
 
I don't know much abut victor but if he preaches a healthy way to use AAS, that does make sense

Taking a drug (test) is one thing. But taking a drug then taking other things to limit the sides of that drug (anti, e, accutaine, BP bed) now you should really step back and take a look at what your doing with your life and if your body can tolerate this stuff.

I tolerate AAS well and would never need an anti E, but I also don't blow up on it. We used to have a kid at a gym I went to. 18, great genetics naturally.. Got his hands on AAS started running him and after a few weeks he was the talk of the gym, not because he was blowing up, but because he was covered in acne (blood showing through his white T-shirt), face swollen, and had tits. He went around begging anyone to sell him an anti e. Last I heard from his friend he got depressed and stopped lifting and started drinking. But he's someone who would probably benefit from the advice don't take so much AAS you need other drugs to control the sides.
 
I don't know much abut victor but if he preaches a healthy way to use AAS, that does make sense

Taking a drug (test) is one thing. But taking a drug then taking other things to limit the sides of that drug (anti, e, accutaine, BP bed) now you should really step back and take a look at what your doing with your life and if your body can tolerate this stuff.

I tolerate AAS well and would never need an anti E, but I also don't blow up on it. We used to have a kid at a gym I went to. 18, great genetics naturally.. Got his hands on AAS started running him and after a few weeks he was the talk of the gym, not because he was blowing up, but because he was covered in acne (blood showing through his white T-shirt), face swollen, and had tits. He went around begging anyone to sell him an anti e. Last I heard from his friend he got depressed and stopped lifting and started drinking. But he's someone who would probably benefit from the advice don't take so much AAS you need other drugs to control the sides.
👏🏿👏🏿 good post!!!
 
Look, I'm not here to blow smoke up anyone's ass! Trying to be 6ft 280+ of lean muscle tissue is going to take time and maybe getting a little extreme with hormones, but why not take as many precautions as you can in route to that goal. Use the most benign drugs possible, use preventive measure drugs like telmisartan and perhaps metformin, leverage in other drugs like insulin, GH, and L-carnitine to help keep the AAS dosage from getting too extreme, use all pathways to growth that you can. Yes you can get slightly extreme in route to that goal but you don't have to get "ape shit stupid" with things! The sad part is that a lot of guys come out of the gate with "ape shit stupid" carrying only 160lbs of lean muscle tissue..LOL
 
WOW ..honestly a bit shocked at this thread

TELMISARTAN is a god-send for very common issues/problems that "we" run into ..& that accumulate over time


NO, not bc we sell it
NO, not bc J. Jewitt said so
NO, no bc V. Black said so

the benefits of TELMISARTAN speak for themselves ..& they are VAST
..there are MANY studies that support it ..that's why it's "recognized"
..it doesn't need a spokes-person; ..it "champions" itself


^^^the problem on these boards is that few "do their own due diligence" ..& too many wait for somebody else to "understand" for them


"..take an AI" ??
"..don't take an AI" ??

^^^no clue 🤷‍♂️


sometimes i really cringe to wonder how many have a BP cuff ..& use it regularly??
..how many have a Glucometer ..& use it regularly??


^^^sadly some will only notice the value of these things (..& pro-active thinking) AFTER a problem blows-up-in-their-face, but not a nano-second before
..some live with symptoms that they don't even recognize anymore bc they'v grown so used to them ..& now consider them "normal"


^^^if you want "healthy" with TRT?? ..then you do what Emeric does; ..70mg/wk ..& maybe a splash of GH

^^^you want to play with doses that go beyond "physiological"?? ..then there is a "smart" way that mitigates/minimizes damage
..and a "not-so-smart" way that leaves you vulnerable & exposed

(..just like in a court of law ..ignorance is not an excuse ..& WILL NOT relieve you of the consequences!!!!!)


▲learn to decipher the differences & quality of information presented to you
..& a great way to do that is to learn to do your own due diligence & to understand for yourself


^^^bc ultimately YOU are RESPONSIBLE for YOU!!!!!!!!!!


.
 

Long-term use of blood pressure medication could be contributing to kidney damage​

Reviewed by Emily Henderson, B.Sc.Jan 12 2022
New kidney research from the University of Virginia School of Medicine is raising concerns that long-term use of drugs commonly prescribed to treat high-blood pressure and heart failure could be contributing to kidney damage.

Patients should continue taking the medications, which include the well-known and widely used ACE inhibitors, the researchers say. But the scientists are urging studies to better understand the drugs' long-term effects.

Our studies show that renin-producing cells are responsible for the damage. We are now focusing on understanding how these cells, which are so important to defend us from drops in blood pressure and maintain our well-being, undergo such transformation and induce kidney damage. What is needed is to identify what substances these cells make that lead to uncontrolled vessel growth."
Maria Luisa Sequeira Lopez MD, UVA's Department of Pediatrics and Child Health Research Center

The causes of kidney damage​

Chronic high blood pressure affects a billion people around the world. The UVA researchers wanted to better understand why severe forms of the condition are often accompanied by thickening of the arteries and small blood vessels in the kidney, leading to organ damage.

They found that specialized kidney cells called renin cells play an important role. These cells normally produce renin, a vital hormone that helps the body regulate blood pressure. But harmful changes in the renin cells can cause the cells to invade the walls of the kidney's blood vessels. The renin cells then trigger a buildup of another cell type, smooth muscle cells, that cause the vessels to thicken and stiffen. The result: Blood can't flow through the kidney as it should.

Further, the researchers found, long-term use of drugs that inhibit the renin-angiotensin system, such as ACE inhibitors, or angiotensin receptor blockers, have a similar effect. These drugs are widely used for many purposes, including treating high blood pressure, congestive heart failure and heart attacks, as well as to prevent major heart problems. But long-term use of the drugs was associated with hardened kidney vessels in both lab mice and humans, the scientists found.

The researchers note that the medications can be lifesaving for patients, so they stress the importance of continuing to take them. But they say additional studies are needed to better understand the drugs' long-term effects on the kidneys.

"It would be important to conduct prospective, randomized controlled studies to determine the extent of functional and tissue damage in patients taking medications for blood pressure control," said Ariel Gomez, MD, of UVA's Department of Pediatrics and Child Health Research Center. "It is imperative to find out what molecules these cells make so that we can counteract them to prevent the damage while the hypertension is treated with the current drugs available today."

Findings published​

The researchers have published their findings in the scientific journal JCI Insight. The article was selected as a cover story. The research team consisted of Hirofumi Watanabe, Alexandre G. Martini, Evan A. Brown, Xiuyin Liang, Silvia Medrano, Shin Goto, Ichiei Narita, Lois J. Arend, Sequeira-Lopez and Gomez.

The research was supported by the National Institutes of Health, grants P50 DK 096373, R01 DK 116718, R01 DK 116196, R01 DK 096373 and R01 HL 148044; and the Japan Society for the Promotion of Science Overseas Research Fellowships.

Source:
University of Virginia Health System
Journal reference:
Watanabe, H., et al. (2021) Inhibition of the renin-angiotensin system causes concentric hypertrophy of renal arterioles in mice and humans. JCI Insight.doi.org/10.1172/jci.insight.154337.
 
Telmisartan user here.

This article didn’t make me feel any better. :(

"Effect of telmisartan on blood pressure control and kidney function in hypertensive, proteinuric patients with chronic kidney disease - PubMed" https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/16077267/
 

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