• All new members please introduce your self here and welcome to the board:
    http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=259
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
M4B Store Banner
intex
Riptropin Store banner
Generation X Bodybuilding Forum
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Buy Needles And Syringes With No Prescription
Mysupps Store Banner
IP Gear Store Banner
PM-Ace-Labs
Ganabol Store Banner
Spend $100 and get bonus needles free at sterile syringes
Professional Muscle Store open now
sunrise2
PHARMAHGH1
kinglab
ganabol2
Professional Muscle Store open now
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
boslabs1
granabolic1
napsgear-210x65
monster210x65
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
DeFiant
UGFREAK-banner-PM
STADAPM
yms-GIF-210x65-SB
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
wuhan2
dpharma
marathon
zzsttmy
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
azteca
crewguru
advertise1x
advertise1x
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store
over 5000 supplements on sale at professional muscle store

JOINT PAIN.. getting old sucks..

LATS

Moderator / FOUNDING Member / NPC Judge
Staff member
Moderator
Registered
Joined
Jun 5, 2002
Messages
8,897
well.. after being in this game for 25 years i may have to finally admit that i am getting old lol.. strength is still at my all time highest.. size is not a iisue.. sure would like to be bigger but, have not lost anything and still gaining.. but, my frickin' joints are rebelling.. i have always had knee issues.. i tore my right quadricep many year ago and my the knee on that particular leg is still "screwey" but, tolerable.. my shoulder joints do bother me but, i have been able to train around them for years.. but, now, i have a elbow issue.. never had a elbow problem in my life.. but, it has made a surpise appearance here lately.. starting to piss me off.. to put it mildly..:mad:
i have alwayas wondered how bernie cooper and citrone and all the other masters competitors have managed to still train extremely heavy and still look awesome into their 60's.. i once conversed with bernie cooper and asked him about his joints holding up and he said he has never really had a issue..lol :confused: and he is still slinging some heavy iron..
so i have started to slow down my movements .. this is starting to ease the pain.. i have always been very strict with my movements but, have trained in a particular range of movement to emphasize particular muscle groups.. this has allowed me to go heavier on some movements but, i believe has "overloaded" my joints and they are starting to let me know.. oh well.. just my rant.. the only thing left is to take out my dentures and wear plad..;)
 
I gotta agree 100% Lats. I am dealing with the same issue. Muscle stays young a long, long time... but the joints? That is another matter. We put a hell of a lot of stress on them over time in this sport too. If I could give just one bit of advice to the young turks on this board it would be take care of your joints, because once the wear and tear is there, its a done deal. You can't regrow cartilage once its worn down. There is a huge amount of research being done in that area. I have joked with my sports ortho doc when he has mentioned joint replacements, that I am waiting for someone in stem cell research to have that big breakthrough. But for now, there is not much you can do except mask the pain.
 
Last edited:
Hahahahaha... Your stories always make me laugh lats! hahaha
So let's see. I'll help you rant today. My lower back is so sore from doing my squat workout with no belt on Wed.. When asked by family and friends where I left my belt I had to confess,"Oh my car parked outside the gym." lol.
My shoulder aches and i've been having trouble sleeping due to the pain...but I've set PR's on bench this week which is surely more important than that little annoyance. hahaha
I'm only 33...but Branch is about my age and so much further developed than I am... hahaha... Let's just remember that this is a marathon not a sprint and enjoy the journey my friend. :)
 
dont feel bad bro your not alone. dont you like how pain can just pop up with out warning part of getting old. deca helps me a bit
 
I have to spend a LOT of time warming up.

My warmups now take as long as some of my workouts used to, Lats.

Ride bike 10 minutes this am...general warmups

Next came the rotator cuff moves....

Next several sets of 20 reps on lateral raises and barbell incline presses with just the bar....

Then I STARTED to train upper chest and shoulders!

So........I HEAR you!
 
I have developed a panic disorder solely because of this thread...

thanks...

thanks a lot! :p
 
hey LATS!

I feel for ya!! I am bigger (mass wise) and more cut than ever before in my life, but every morning I wake up and when I get out of bed it feels like every joint in my body hurts!! Even the GH doesn't help that, in fact it makes it worse@! BUT we keep on truckin, right, bro!

Mike
 
I have developed a panic disorder solely because of this thread...

thanks...

thanks a lot! :p

Father Time is coming for you Ouch!

As strong as you are, though, bro you shouldn't have any trouble keeping the grim reaper off your back! :D
 
bwahahahahah all u old farts makes me laugh.. suck it up big boy....

just kidding xoxo
 
Lats I'm in the same boat after 26 years of training.
But let me tell you, after always wanting to train heavy I changed things arround.

I know we shouldn't always believe what is written about how the pro's train and all but........
I accidently stumbled on the thread Serge Nubret has on BB.com.
He always says to have trained high volume all excersises 6x12 and with only 30 secs rest between sets. I have to tell you , the weights I use now are ridiculous
but I really look better now after doing this for 3 months and my joints are very happy now! Insane pumps too!
 
Joint Pain

I find myself laying in bed a certain way with my arms laying in this perfect spot. If not shoulder joint pain and no sleep..

BWP
 
I feel your pain and age LATS.
Knees elbows low back neck cuffs, I have become that "old" man we used to laugh at in the gym that would spend 30 minutes warming up.
here's a few supps you may try:

Bromelain: Nutritional Enzyme Support For Anti-Inflammatory Joint Benefit

Derived from the stems of the pineapple plant, Bromelain is one of a group of proteolytic enzymes (enzymes capable of digesting protein).

Bromelain is a natural agent that supports the body to provide anti-inflammatory benefits and for this reason is helpful in healing minor injuries, particularly sprains and strains, muscle injuries, and the pain, swelling, and tenderness that accompany sports injuries.

Also as a result of its natural anti-inflammatory effect, bromelain has been found to dramatically reduce postoperative swelling in controlled human research. Double-blind research has found bromelain effective in reducing swelling, bruising, and pain.

The anti-inflammatory effect of bromelain is the probable reason this natural enzyme has been found effective for people suffering from joint pain. Again, probably due to its natural anti-inflammatory action, bromelain was reported to help patients with rheumatoid arthritis in preliminary research.6 In that trial, in which bromelain was given for varying (3-week to 13-month) periods, 73% had good to excellent results in reducing joint pain.

It has also been used with significant positive results in the treatment of various athletic injuries. In one open case observation study, bromelain was administered to 59 patients with blunt injuries to the musculoskeletal system. A clear reduction in swelling, pain at rest and during movement and in tenderness was reported.

Similarly, preliminary studies suggest that bromelain may also help reduce the pain associated with rheumatoid arthritis. Plus, long-standing use of bromelain suggests that this natural enzyme may be helpful as part of the treatment for other connective tissue disorders including scleroderma (build up of tough scar-like tissue in the skin and, at times, internal organs), osteoarthritis,bursitis, burns, and tendinitis.
Bromelain Provides Nutritional Support For Joint Pain and More!

Of course, bromelain is a good natural remedy for inflammation and joint pain, but it is often used by naturopathic and complimentary practitioners in cases involving problems with digestion or sinusitis, wound healing, post surgical inflammation, sprains and strains, carpal tunnel syndrome, delayed onset muscle soreness, bursitis, tendonitis, and low back problems.

Bromelain may also ease the pain of heartburn and lessen the effects of diarrhea when these conditions are caused by a shortage of digestive enzymes.

For patients suffering from chronic bronchitis, bromelain has been shown to suppress cough and ease congestion. Other studies have indicated that individuals with sinusitis and allergies that affect the sinuses may also respond to bromelain therapy; it helps reduce inflammation and fluid retention in the nasal membranes.

Since bromelain can reduce tissue swelling, it may reduce swelling and pain in the wrist associated with carpal tunnel syndrome.

Quercetin


The popular and powerful anti-inflammatory combination of quercetin and bromelain help maintain the proper functioning of the body's histamine response to bring you natural inflammatory support. Quercetin is an antioxidant that supports the body's inflammation response and histamine processes, while bromelain increases the absorption of quercetin, and is a powerful inflammation response supporter and protein-digesting enzyme.

Bromelain also is known to have many of the same histamine and leukotriene-inhibiting properties as quercetin, so they enhance each others’ performance. The quercetin and bromelain provide you with the necessary “one-two punch” to help the body reduce aches and pains associated with degenerative joint conditions.



Cissus Quadrangularis


Dante turned me on to this product recently and it definitely helps (reduction of) joint pain and healing. **broken link removed**
Cissus quadrangularis is an ancient medicinal plant native to the hotter parts of Ceylon and India. It was prescribed in the ancient Ayurvedic texts as a general tonic and analgesic (painkiller), with specific bone fracture healing properties. Modern research has shed light on Cissus’ ability to speed bone healing by showing it acts as a glucocorticoid antagonist (1,2). Since anabolic/androgenic compounds are well known to act as antagonists to the glucocorticoid receptor as well as promote bone growth and fracture healing, it has been postulated that Cissus possesses anabolic and/or androgenic properties (1,3). In addition to speeding the remodeling process of the healing bone, Cissus also leads to a much faster increase in bone tensile strength. In clinical trials Cissus has led to a fracture healing time on the order of 55 to 33 percent of that of controls. That cissus exerts antiglucocorticoid properties is suggested by a number of studies where bones were weakened by treatment with cortisol, and upon administration of Cissus extract the cortisol induced weakening was halted, and the healing process begun.

With studies showing that hormone replacement therapy in postmenopausal women may increase the risk of breast cancer and heart disease, many women are looking at alternatives to estrogen to help prevent osteoporosis. Although there appears to be no published research showing that Cissus increases bone density in osteoporosis, or helps prevent the disease, the fact that the herb speeds recovery of fractures suggests that may increase bone density in osteoporosis as well. It would almost certainly help speed the recovery of fractures that are a common occurrence with osteoporosis. Chronic glucocorticoid therapy is a high risk factor for the development of osteoporosis. Glucocorticoids are believed to interfere with the action of osteoblasts, the cells that are responsible of the deposition of new bone material. The drug mefipristone (RU-486), an antiglucocorticoid as well as progesterone antagonist, has been successfully used to treat osteoporosis but the side effects, such as endometrial hyperplasia, are serious enough to preclude its routine use for the treatment of osteoporosis. Cissus seems to be devoid of such side effects and may prove to be a viable compound in osteoporosis treatment.

While the increased rate of bone healing may be of great significance to persons suffering from chronic diseases like osteoporosis (4), the antiglucocorticoid properties of Cissus are likely of much more interest to the average bodybuilder or athlete, since endogenous glucocorticoids, particularly cortisol, are not only catabolic to bone, but catabolize muscle tissue as well. Numerous studies over the years have suggested that glucocorticoids, including the body’s endogenous hormone cortisol, activate pathways that degrade not only bone, but skeletal muscle tissue as well. A recently published report documented exactly how glucocorticoids (including cortisol) induce muscle breakdown: They activate the so-called ubiquitin-proteasome pathway of proteolysis (5). This pathway of tissue breakdown is important for removing damaged and non-functional proteins. However, when it is overactive during periods of elevated cortisol (e.g disease states, stress, and overtraining) excess amounts of normal tissue are broken down as well. By exerting an anabolic, antiglucocorticoid effect Cissus helps preserve muscle tissue during times of physical and emotional stress.

Although the bulk of the research on Cissus centers on bone healing, the possibility exists that Cissus may improve the healing rate of connective tissue in general, including tendons and cartilage. If this were the case it would be of even greater benefit to bodybuilders and athletes. Numerous anecdotal reports by Cissus users claim rapid healing of long standing tendenitis.

Besides the above-mentioned properties of Cissus, the plant is also rich in the vitamins/antioxidants vitamin C and beta-carotene. As analyzed, Cissus quadrangularis contained ascorbic acid 479 mg, and carotene 267 units per 100g of freshly prepared paste in addition to calcium oxalate (6).

The typical recommended daily dosage of Cissus extract is between 500 and 1000 mg, depending on the concentration of the extract and the severity of symptoms. For the powder of the dried plant, the Ayurvedic texts recommend a dosage of 3 to 6 grams to accelerate fracture healing. Safety studies in rats showed no toxic effects at dosages as high as 2000 mg/kg of body weight. So not only is Cissus efficacious, it is also quite safe, in either the dried powder form or the commercially available extract.

Cissus also possess analgesic properties on an mg per mg basis comparable to aspirin or anti-inflammatory drugs like ibuprofen. Cissus quadrangularis constitutes one of the ingredients of an Ayurvedic preparation, `Laksha Gogglu', which has been proved to be highly effective in relieving pain, reduction of swelling and promoting the process of healing of the simple fractures as well as in curing the allied disorders associated with fractures (7). The mechanism through which Cissus exerts its analgesic and anti-inflammatory properties has not been well characterized. It may act centrally, or by preventing the conversion of arachidonic acid to inflammatory prostaglandins.
 
Bromelain is good stuff (ty massive G). A nice benefit of it is that if you take it with a high protein meal you don't get any indigestion (especially for me with eggs). It also helps with my shoulder cuff problem. I never even would have heard of it if MG didn't bring it in here. Thanks for that.

And the Quercetin he's talking about, I started a couple years ago after this chic at vitamin world wouldn't stop yapping about it. I just wanted VitC. Well I ended up getting the quercetin w/ vitamin C and take one a day. If I even remotely feel a cold coming on, I take 2 or 3 a day and I haven't got a cold since. Not even the sniffles.

Fish oil caps (I use the enteric coated ones from Nature Made - no fish burps), bromelain, acidophilus, and quercetin w/vitamin C are always in the cabinet and I take them everyday.

Massive G, what's the hub bub about ALA? Men's Health had a big thing on ALA to increase your lifespan and general male health. What's the real scoop on it? Anyone else try ALA? I remember when CLA was the thing but it never did a thing for me (at least that I could tell).
 
In the past when I went very heavy on squats my knees started to kill me but when I lowered the weights they eventually went away.

But recently - as with Lats and a few others here - I've experienced some elbow pain.

But in similarity to LATS' issue... I think the problem are the movements combined with heavy weights. Like you said, sometimes you go heavier when you train with a more limited range of motion. I can attest to that possibly being one of the problems, as recently I've changed up my routine and am feeling some pretty bad pain as a result of some partial movements. I just changed it back to full range of motion, having to drop the weights a bit, and my elbows are getting better. The pain is not as severe as it was prior and it seems to be working.

As for the Bromelain: who here has used that with success for combating joint pain? As well, what effect does bromelain have directly on muscle tissue?

Since it helps digest protein, does that mean it makes it easier for the body to assimilate the protein or easier for the body to get rid of protein?
 
Massive G, what's the hub bub about ALA? Men's Health had a big thing on ALA to increase your lifespan and general male health. What's the real scoop on it? Anyone else try ALA? I remember when CLA was the thing but it never did a thing for me (at least that I could tell).
I haven't paid much attention to ALA (alpha lipoic acid) in a few years it was heavily pushed on the bb boards in the late 1990's as an liver protector and helped stabilize blood glucose.
It tore my stomach up (acid) and made me hypoglycemic so I never messed with it after the initial trial.
But the hype is it is all of the above and a great anti-oxidant. So is E C et all. Like I said the sides outweighed the benefits for me as a liver protector restorer and blood sugar enhancer.
 
Welcome to the club boys!!

I have a saying about the iron game we play as we get older. The old saying goes "Smarter when you NEED to, Harder when you HAVE to". I hear ya guys. I still manage to train as heavy as I can when I train. I just adjust the movememnts to allieveiate stress on the joints. Where there's a will there's a way. Some really good info on supps in this thread also. Thank you guys.

Your never to old in this game. Age is a number old is how you feel!!!
 
I have a saying about the iron game we play as we get older. The old saying goes "Smarter when you NEED to, Harder when you HAVE to". I hear ya guys. I still manage to train as heavy as I can when I train. I just adjust the movememnts to allieveiate stress on the joints. Where there's a will there's a way. Some really good info on supps in this thread also. Thank you guys.

Your never to old in this game. Age is a number old is how you feel!!!

Amen to that D! When something gets in my way in regards to training, I go around it. I still get from point "A" to point "B".
 
Hey Lats. I think you're right for slowing the movements down. I consider myself blessed for having a celebrity at my gym. He wrestles for WWE and I'm leaving him unnamed because of all the shit going on there right now. But he says he's been working out with HHH and that's all they do; lighten the weight and go through the motions slower. So I've been doing it more (since I'm getting to be an old bastard myself) and I notice more of a pump and less joint pain in the morning. I've been doing this for about 8 months now and my friends have even been making comments. It's like they say, it's not how much you bench, it's how much it looks like you bench. John Cena admits he only benches 315lbs.
 
AFLUTOP how good is it. I have heard good things but is it safe?
 

Forum statistics

Total page views
576,042,367
Threads
138,441
Messages
2,856,795
Members
161,439
Latest member
aufnass
NapsGear
HGH Power Store email banner
yourdailyvitamins
Prowrist straps store banner
yourrawmaterials
3
raws
Savage Labs Store email
Syntherol Site Enhancing Oil Synthol
aqpharma
yms-GIF-210x131-Banne-B
hulabs
ezgif-com-resize-2-1
MA Research Chem store banner
MA Supps Store Banner
volartek
Keytech banner
thc
Godbullraw-bottom-banner
Injection Instructions for beginners
YMS-210x131-V02
Back
Top