Joint pain

[Pheedno]

You might check out Orthogen by Morphogen Nutrition. I have been taking it for around 6 weeks now and my knees/shoulders feel much better. Have been dealing with bicep tendonitis for months that put a serious dent in all chest/shoulder exercises and that pain is gone. I'm impressed with the product.

It has a wide spectrum of ingredients, and a full clinical dose of each ingredient. Where as most joint supplements out there have a lot of good ingredients, but each ingredient is way under dosed in the proprietary blend.

Free shipping too.

https://www.morphogennutrition.com/collections/supplements/products/orthogen

Man, Hartman's line of products have really expanded. I totally forgot about his supp company. He used to be a mainstay on Skip's board back in the day and has always seemed to be a straight shooter.
This product looks good as does several others.

I also have a pretty good idea on where he sources his ingredients. If it's the place I'm thinking of, then they are without concern for quality.

 

[mytreefiddy]

Syraplex's Hydrolyzed Collagen Type 2..... Hit up Pitbull Tank

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

I'm 52 and do not plan on coming off the 250 mg/wk of Deca any time soon. What "wrecked" effects should I be looking for now? For me, the benefits far outweigh the small possible sides I may get (especially after 30+ years of AAS use)

well, its a cardiotoxin for starters...

and no, low dose won't protect you from its toxic effects. 250mg/week is NOT a low dose of deca also. 100mg/week of Deca will have deleterious effects, imagine what injecting 2.5x that of a decanoate ester anabolic will do to you after 8-12 weeks of it building up...

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

There's much better options for joint pain than injecting DECA.

 

[LK3]

while deca or npp do take away the pain at smaller doses they really should not be things you consider living on, as they could have detramental effects to your health.

they do help at times though.

curcumin works like magic for me.
something i try to live on.
300mgs wk is where it gets good and gets better as you go up, if you can dela with admin...:lightbulb:

 

[gotgame]

while deca or npp do take away the pain at smaller doses they really should not be things you consider living on, as they could have detramental effects to your health.

they do help at times though.

curcumin works like magic for me.
something i try to live on.
300mgs wk is where it gets good and gets better as you go up, if you can dela with admin...:lightbulb:

while deca or npp do take away the pain at smaller doses they really should not be things you consider living on, as they could have detramental effects to your health.

they do help at times though.

curcumin works like magic for me.
something i try to live on.
300mgs wk is where it gets good and gets better as you go up, if you can dela with admin...:lightbulb:

I know very little about curcumin howeve the few studies i saw it did seem to have some effects on the inflam cascade so if thats the reason for taking it for joint pain is support its use.

What i dont support is anyone saying glucosa chondroitin, collagen, rubbing cow urine on ur joints while chanting... you get my point.

now certain things can work to decrease inflammation but anyone who starts talking about cartilage rebuilding/repair etc is full of crap. its AVASCULAR articular cartilage. now ok... LK3 is a smart man.. he may say but GG about synovial diffusion.. ok that is true its possible some of the superficial cartilage while avascular does get low level nutrients via synovial diffusion

Problem is if the cartilage has at least moderate grade fissuring its past the point of supplements and if it was only low grade then it wouldnt be causing you issues.

If people want to take curcumin for sympotmatic control or possible prevention of local inflammation leading to chondrolysis then its a well thoughout reason and would make sense... as if one were to take another supplement for the same reasons id be like ok.. but anyone who suggest collagen type supplement doesnt understand the way cartilage works or looked at any recent imaging studies on cartilage repair ( t1 rho high rez)

 

[LK3]

I know very little about curcumin howeve the few studies i saw it did seem to have some effects on the inflam cascade so if thats the reason for taking it for joint pain is support its use.

What i dont support is anyone saying glucosa chondroitin, collagen, rubbing cow urine on ur joints while chanting... you get my point.

now certain things can work to decrease inflammation but anyone who starts talking about cartilage rebuilding/repair etc is full of crap. its AVASCULAR articular cartilage. now ok... LK3 is a smart man.. he may say but GG about synovial diffusion.. ok that is true its possible some of the superficial cartilage while avascular does get low level nutrients via synovial diffusion

Problem is if the cartilage has at least moderate grade fissuring its past the point of supplements and if it was only low grade then it wouldnt be causing you issues.

If people want to take curcumin for sympotmatic control or possible prevention of local inflammation leading to chondrolysis then its a well thoughout reason and would make sense... as if one were to take another supplement for the same reasons id be like ok.. but anyone who suggest collagen type supplement doesnt understand the way cartilage works or looked at any recent imaging studies on cartilage repair ( t1 rho high rez)

good to see you brotha!!!
been a WHILE!
hope all is well in your world!
happy new year etc

i love the idea of collagen sups and or combining that idea with the idea that various drugs can help to rebuild some of this theoretical damage but as you point out it just doesnt seem to work in reality.:lightbulb:

i have yet to come accross any real fix, at best its just suppression wich as time will teach is not a cure! lol

no great answers here.
happy to see you!
:star-w:rs

 

[gotgame]

good to see you brotha!!!
been a WHILE!
hope all is well in your world!
happy new year etc

i love the idea of collagen sups and or combining that idea with the idea that various drugs can help to rebuild some of this theoretical damage but as you point out it just doesnt seem to work in reality.:lightbulb:

i have yet to come accross any real fix, at best its just suppression wich as time will teach is not a cure! lol

no great answers here.
happy to see you!
:star-w:rs

great to see you as well my friend. Ppl may not know that when i first met LK we had quite differing opinions on something...i dont even recall what it was..but i respect anyone who is knowledgable and well informed. I dont care about degrees and education... but taking the time to learn as much as one can and make an informed opinion..and LK does that.

With respect to cartilage.. well i could regrow it in a lab but not in ppl and im not aware of anything that can using noninvasive technology like popping a pill

Edit: one of the topics we disagreed on was sunblock. if i recall correctly LK likes topical antiox and i like coppertone spf 9milllion lol.

 

[upeccmi]

There's much better options for joint pain than injecting DECA.

Unfortunately I am at a point I need knee replacement. This is not just some pain during workouts, I look like an old man walking stairs and things. I have tried all sorts of natural supplements, tumeric, hyaluronic acid, fish oil/ Omegas, glucosomin/chondroiton and I still take most of these daily. I even take Tramadol (for both knees and back). It wasn't until I added some Deca (I haven't take deca in many years) that I started feeling able to do stuff again and actually able to do a good leg workout again. I guess I will see if it affects my next blood work negatively.

 

[gungalunga]

I know very little about curcumin howeve the few studies i saw it did seem to have some effects on the inflam cascade so if thats the reason for taking it for joint pain is support its use.

What i dont support is anyone saying glucosa chondroitin, collagen, rubbing cow urine on ur joints while chanting... you get my point.

now certain things can work to decrease inflammation but anyone who starts talking about cartilage rebuilding/repair etc is full of crap. its AVASCULAR articular cartilage. now ok... LK3 is a smart man.. he may say but GG about synovial diffusion.. ok that is true its possible some of the superficial cartilage while avascular does get low level nutrients via synovial diffusion

Problem is if the cartilage has at least moderate grade fissuring its past the point of supplements and if it was only low grade then it wouldnt be causing you issues.

If people want to take curcumin for sympotmatic control or possible prevention of local inflammation leading to chondrolysis then its a well thoughout reason and would make sense... as if one were to take another supplement for the same reasons id be like ok.. but anyone who suggest collagen type supplement doesnt understand the way cartilage works or looked at any recent imaging studies on cartilage repair ( t1 rho high rez)

You mean I was letting that steer piss on my shoulder for NOTHING? Dammit! I was paying that farmer a lot of money too......

 

[gotgame]

lol

ive heard it all when it comes to joint pain. My two areas of research are diabetic fracture healing as it pertained to IGF/insulin bone signally and also cartilage research using special MRI techniques to see what helps--so far nothing you are gonna take OTC.

What if i told ppl advil helped build cartilage...ppl took it and wow there joints feel better therefore it must be true! I mean less joint pain is certainly and indication of cartilage repair...lol

I know this thread will die off soon and we will be right back to where we were before...crazy bogus recommendations that cant possibly work, supplement claims.... someone posting an abstract supporting it. I know because ive seen it all. I wish for once the community would learn so we could collectively progress. Instead of looking at repair lets focus on prevention, early detection and not being soo hooked on supplements when the truth is you are wasting money.

 

[Chipper Jones78]

lol

ive heard it all when it comes to joint pain. My two areas of research are diabetic fracture healing as it pertained to IGF/insulin bone signally and also cartilage research using special MRI techniques to see what helps--so far nothing you are gonna take OTC.

What if i told ppl advil helped build cartilage...ppl took it and wow there joints feel better therefore it must be true! I mean less joint pain is certainly and indication of cartilage repair...lol

I know this thread will die off soon and we will be right back to where we were before...crazy bogus recommendations that cant possibly work, supplement claims.... someone posting an abstract supporting it. I know because ive seen it all. I wish for once the community would learn so we could collectively progress. Instead of looking at repair lets focus on prevention, early detection and not being soo hooked on supplements when the truth is you are wasting money.

Got game - if I may ask and pick your brain, what would you recommend (a protocol) for someone like me which both a xray and a ultrasound showed positive of both calcific tendonitis with a small tendon tear in the same shoulder.

I tried shock-wave therapy which did showed some promise which did alleviated some of the pain.

Cheers
Chip

 

[jeroendebleser]

lol

ive heard it all when it comes to joint pain. My two areas of research are diabetic fracture healing as it pertained to IGF/insulin bone signally and also cartilage research using special MRI techniques to see what helps--so far nothing you are gonna take OTC.

What if i told ppl advil helped build cartilage...ppl took it and wow there joints feel better therefore it must be true! I mean less joint pain is certainly and indication of cartilage repair...lol

I know this thread will die off soon and we will be right back to where we were before...crazy bogus recommendations that cant possibly work, supplement claims.... someone posting an abstract supporting it. I know because ive seen it all. I wish for once the community would learn so we could collectively progress. Instead of looking at repair lets focus on prevention, early detection and not being soo hooked on supplements when the truth is you are wasting money.

Exactly. None of this OTC stuff actually does something worthwhile.

 

[gotgame]

Got game - if I may ask and pick your brain, what would you recommend (a protocol) for someone like me which both a xray and a ultrasound showed positive of both calcific tendonitis with a small tendon tear in the same shoulder.

I tried shock-wave therapy which did showed some promise which did alleviated some of the pain.

Cheers
Chip

Got game - if I may ask and pick your brain, what would you recommend (a protocol) for someone like me which both a xray and a ultrasound showed positive of both calcific tendonitis with a small tendon tear in the same shoulder.

I tried shock-wave therapy which did showed some promise which did alleviated some of the pain.

Cheers
Chip

how large is the block of calcium?

I have had VERY good success doing lavage with an 18g needle using ultrasound guidance. Id reach out to a musculoskeletal physician either radiology or PMR/sports and see if they offer it. I can usually get greater then 80% removal in one treatment if its less then 1.5cm If around 1.5 or greater ill need two sessions. Most patients do very well within a few weeks.

I have done this one two professional football players last year and also had it done on myself 3 years ago.

 

[Chipper Jones78]

how large is the block of calcium?

I have had VERY good success doing lavage with an 18g needle using ultrasound guidance. Id reach out to a musculoskeletal physician either radiology or PMR/sports and see if they offer it. I can usually get greater then 80% removal in one treatment if its less then 1.5cm If around 1.5 or greater ill need two sessions. Most patients do very well within a few weeks.

I have done this one two professional football players last year and also had it done on myself 3 years ago.

Awesome - thx for the advice!

I'll be on this.

It's 1.1cm

 

[SwedishSteel]

I know very little about curcumin howeve the few studies i saw it did seem to have some effects on the inflam cascade so if thats the reason for taking it for joint pain is support its use.

What i dont support is anyone saying glucosa chondroitin, collagen, rubbing cow urine on ur joints while chanting... you get my point.

now certain things can work to decrease inflammation but anyone who starts talking about cartilage rebuilding/repair etc is full of crap. its AVASCULAR articular cartilage. now ok... LK3 is a smart man.. he may say but GG about synovial diffusion.. ok that is true its possible some of the superficial cartilage while avascular does get low level nutrients via synovial diffusion

Problem is if the cartilage has at least moderate grade fissuring its past the point of supplements and if it was only low grade then it wouldnt be causing you issues.

If people want to take curcumin for sympotmatic control or possible prevention of local inflammation leading to chondrolysis then its a well thoughout reason and would make sense... as if one were to take another supplement for the same reasons id be like ok.. but anyone who suggest collagen type supplement doesnt understand the way cartilage works or looked at any recent imaging studies on cartilage repair ( t1 rho high rez)

Could not agree more.. cant even count how many thousends ive spent
on joint medication like gluco,msm,bpc,tb n so furth.

People get some cracking in there knees or elbows and start loading up on
gluco n msm… not realizing that the problems are nerv related. Almost every
injury is because of the nervs going over the joints.

When its to tight, it cracks. So im right now all about lowering my inflammation and doing rehab with cannabis.

Have healed 2 knees, 2 elbows, lower back, right shoulder, both wrist.
Healed it all with 2 weeks with cannabis doing rehab n few yoga poses
making my CNS sit where it suppose. Im mindblown. Was just about to
end it all thinking i got severe MS n EVERY joint in my body was bone on
bone, been living like that for 6 years trying to figure this all out

 

[pahlevan]

So I am going to be 49 and time is catching u with me. My joints hurt it hurts to get the fuck up in the morning. My question is what really works? i was going to try deca but what else can I try? i never really felt a difference using choindrotin or maybe I did not take enough and or long enough. I also use lidocaine patches 5% for my back they don't work either well maybe alittle. I want t really feel better/younger maybe hgh?

Its just age, get used to it, and safe your money!! Once it get warmers you're probably going to feel a little better but in the winter ist always worst.
Deca can help. maybe 100mg E10days.

 

[LK3]

great to see you as well my friend. Ppl may not know that when i first met LK we had quite differing opinions on something...i dont even recall what it was..but i respect anyone who is knowledgable and well informed. I dont care about degrees and education... but taking the time to learn as much as one can and make an informed opinion..and LK does that.

With respect to cartilage.. well i could regrow it in a lab but not in ppl and im not aware of anything that can using noninvasive technology like popping a pill

Edit: one of the topics we disagreed on was sunblock. if i recall correctly LK likes topical antiox and i like coppertone spf 9milllion lol.

we have gone back and forth on more then one thing thats for sure!
thats also why i respect you!
happy is is well with you!


you i did get a sunburn a cpl weeks ago!
lol
no lotion!


in regaurds to cartalidge growth there are studies on various aas and this im sure you know, that do show some growth, the problem is the growth is different then "normal: growth and leads to more damage.

the idea behind the collagen sups is giving the body the building blocks it needs to produce more collagen, it just doesnt seem to actually work. lol

the other part is differentiating why one has the pain.

i find the subject interesting for personal reasons and the research on test fucking things up.:lightbulb:
in regaurds to curc, we know im not talking about caps.... lol

 

[upeccmi]

lol

ive heard it all when it comes to joint pain. My two areas of research are diabetic fracture healing as it pertained to IGF/insulin bone signally and also cartilage research using special MRI techniques to see what helps--so far nothing you are gonna take OTC.

What if i told ppl advil helped build cartilage...ppl took it and wow there joints feel better therefore it must be true! I mean less joint pain is certainly and indication of cartilage repair...lol

I know this thread will die off soon and we will be right back to where we were before...crazy bogus recommendations that cant possibly work, supplement claims.... someone posting an abstract supporting it. I know because ive seen it all. I wish for once the community would learn so we could collectively progress. Instead of looking at repair lets focus on prevention, early detection and not being soo hooked on supplements when the truth is you are wasting money.

I know I have seen it in other threads but what is your profession that you treat these people?

I have been to many ortho doctors and worked for ortho company Stryker Orthopaedics and all have said I need to try to prolong the use on my original knees before replacement as I am only 52. You mention that we cannot grow cartilage so isn't anything we are doing only trying to eliminate the pain and have a more normal life?

 

[gotgame]

I know I have seen it in other threads but what is your profession that you treat these people?

I have been to many ortho doctors and worked for ortho company Stryker Orthopaedics and all have said I need to try to prolong the use on my original knees before replacement as I am only 52. You mention that we cannot grow cartilage so isn't anything we are doing only trying to eliminate the pain and have a more normal life?

good old styker... i used to rely on reps to guide me through procedures back in the day. I was ortho surg for a few years and changed fields to interventional musculoskeletal radiology.

We cant regrow cartilage so its mostly either prevention by understanding anatomy and basing our workouts around that, reducing joint pain via either inflammation or capsular issues, or honestly..so many people claim to have joint pain and its not even a cartilage issue..its menicus, tendon, ligament, ruptured pop cyst, plica rubbing etc..

what i mean about understanding anatomy is i remember reading maybe 20 years ago articles an posts by people claiming that squating ATF was not bad for your knees..infact it was good! Yea well as i got further along in life and career i realized those people were idiots who didnt have a clue about cartialge and anatomy. Yet they were..and still considered experts.

Speaking of "experts" one of the guys who really annoys me now is this guy on youtube athlean-x or something. He is supposed to be PT but when he gives advice on shoulder pain and popping and other injuries i just cringe. His workout advice is good for beginners but i wanna be like cmon bro im assuming u know better and dont really mean to give terrible advice and probably understand that what you are saying isnt really appropriate.