Judging changes to prevent deaths..

[Biggerp73]

Big possibility of some changes to judging as a result of recent deaths...

I was thinking in addition to testing for diuretics, judges could be instructed to ignore glute striations and lower back dryness, and those seem to be the two areas that guys need to kill themselves (no pun intended) in order get super lean

Focus instead on shape, lines symmetry, and aesthetics... essentially most dramatic X shape wins regardless of conditioning (assuming a certain baseline level of no real visible "fat")...

 

[Dugbet]

But if the criteria you suggest are imposed, that will make less gifted athletes unable to reward their failures with more effort.

Can this condition be achieved without using diuretics and having suicidal protocols? Dexter, Phil, Kai, Warren ... they have been consistent in shape for a long time, without problems.

Also, supposedly, the classic was created not to reward so much the size and the condition, and if the symmetry, aestethic and the pleasant forms. If open and 212 did the same, what would be the point of having so many divisions?

I agree to test diuretics, not so much to change the criteria to judge, at the end of the day, the biggest and most conditioned athlete attracts more attention.

 

[b-boy]

Bodybuilding is an EXTREME sport and athletes are always going to do the EXTREME no matter what the judging criteria says.

 

[Pheedno]

I don't think you can change judging criteria for mens bodybuilding to award lesser conditioning. 2 guys on sage, one clearly being in better condition and a judge awards the softer look? I can't see that being realistic.

You could implement diuretic testing.
You could make weigh ins on the same day or within a certain number of hours.
Both of those options would lessen occurrences but still wouldn't eliminate

 

[Bio]

@LATS spelled it out in the George Peterson thread regarding extreme conditioning and the 212 class. Base that class on height not weight. @b-boy also laid it out regarding diet and prep.

 

[b-boy]

@LATS spelled it out in the George Peterson thread regarding extreme conditioning and the 212 class. Base that class on height not weight. @b-boy also laid it out regarding diet and prep.

I 100% agree on the height with no weight restriction class.

 

[Ruhlfreak55]

It seems to me something has changed here of late. I find myself wondering if the rona isn't interacting (with terrible effect) with something we do at the tail end of contest prep. It might be an interaction with the diuretics, it might be something else, but it seems to me SOMETHING has changed.

 

[b-boy]

It seems to me something has changed here of late. I find myself wondering if the rona isn't interacting (with terrible effect) with something we do at the tail end of contest prep. It might be an interaction with the diuretics, it might be something else, but it seems to me SOMETHING has changed.

Well one thing that has changed is....everybody and their brother are contest prep gurus now, and bodybuilders act like they can't get on stage without one.

 

[memphismuscle]

I think the 2 main issues are people using every idiot under the sun for a coach, trusting the B.S. they say and people not wanting to actually diet. With all the gear, sarms, ect out there, it seems people would pump more drugs than actually suffer on a diet and cardio. Verify what is being told to you by your "coach" and do the work in the gym and with your diet.

 

[airman]

I 100% agree on the height with no weight restriction class.

That or simply make it a true 212 class, where competitors weigh in just before stepping on stage (maybe an hour or so prior). This way, it will limit the competitors to truly 212 guys, not 220 or 225 doing extremes to make the class, only to refill. It will prevent the extremes, because if you resort to the dropping water so extremely, you will look horrible on stage an hour later, so I doubt anyone would resort to it.

If you're a true 225lb bodybuilder, you should be in the open, not trying to squeeze down IMO.

 

[LATS]

I've said this and a few podcasts and even talked at length with meadows about this.. take the limit off 212.. they are pros.. they shoukd be able to bring their best package to the stage and not be hindered by a weight restriction .. the open get to bring their best package..make it a short class .. 5'6 3/4 and under.. I agree that those doing extreme measures to get to that class should be in open.. but how competitive woukd they be at their height.. ? Only a few can be competitive at 5'6 225 pounds.. but make it a short class and let them come in at where they are comfortable.. now will it prevent guys pushing for extreme conditioning ? Maybe not in all cases.. but at least a few like george coukd have come in at 230 and not had to endure the drastic drop..

It's more fair.. a guy like clarida is 5'2.. he is not hindered in any way by that weight restriction.. he can bring in as big and freaky a package as he wants.. its not fair to those taller who , some, can not afford to add anymore muscle without the limit.. short class..

 

[LATS]

Well one thing that has changed is....everybody and their brother are contest prep gurus now, and bodybuilders act like they can't get on stage without one.

Yes.. and the first thing a " guru" should do is be in charge of their health.. we are seeing women and men dropping from diuretics before shows and after.. yet these trainers are still pushing diuretics.. idiots..now that being said we have look at personal responsibility.. if the competitor keeps pushing there is only so much a trainer can do.. but as a trainer you better damn well stick to their side like jelly to ensure nothing goes wrong.. to leave them in such a dehydrated state is careless..

 

[nspaletta]

Well one thing that has changed is....everybody and their brother are contest prep gurus now, and bodybuilders act like they can't get on stage without one.

Such a big part today I don't think people take into account. Not everyone should be a prep guru because 90% don't know shit. And competitors need to pull their head out of their ass at times and realize they understand their own body better then any coach would. It'll give you warning signals to change something up when it is in a dire situation.

Prep coaches need to learn more
Athletes need to learn more

and they both need to learn to work together more instead of letting the blind lead the blind at times.

 

[Big Dave Smith]

Change NOTHING.

Moving the goal post does not keep anyone safer.

Two athletes can achieve the same outcome via drastically different methods. The method is the responsibility of the athlete, nobody else’s.

Too big for the class? Should have lost some weight (fat or muscle) MONTHS ago.

Not dry enough? Not lean enough. Learn to safely dry out without diuretics. Learn how diuretics work

Not lean enough? Lose more fat or take a lesser trophy.

Nobody makes you do anything to your body.

The only way to really prevent issues is to ban genetic outliers from competitive sports.

There was only 1 Ronnie. What happened? Guys who weren’t Ronnie tried chasing the mass. The judges didn’t create the situation. They HAD to reward him based on the criteria. You can’t change the rules to prevent stupid behavior, especially when many athletes can achieve the desired outcome without issue.

There will be guys who get lean easily, and some who kill themselves to get there. You either have good genetics to get lean, a good plan, both, or you don’t get a winning trophy. THAT’S FUCKING LIFE.

Changing the sport is absurd. Competitive nature will always drive people over the edge.

 

[LATS]

Change NOTHING.

Moving the goal post does not keep anyone safer.

Two athletes can achieve the same outcome via drastically different methods. The method is the responsibility of the athlete, nobody else’s.

Too big for the class? Should have lost some weight (fat or muscle) MONTHS ago.

Not dry enough? Not lean enough. Learn to safely dry out without diuretics. Learn how diuretics work

Not lean enough? Lose more fat or take a lesser trophy.

Nobody makes you do anything to your body.

The only way to really prevent issues is to ban genetic outliers from competitive sports.

There was only 1 Ronnie. What happened? Guys who weren’t Ronnie tried chasing the mass. The judges didn’t create the situation. They HAD to reward him based on the criteria. You can’t change the rules to prevent stupid behavior, especially when many athletes can achieve the desired outcome without issue.

There will be guys who get lean easily, and some who kill themselves to get there. You either have good genetics to get lean, a good plan, both, or you don’t get a winning trophy. THAT’S FUCKING LIFE.

Changing the sport is absurd. Competitive nature will always drive people over the edge.

Like I've always said bodybuikding is what you make it.. safer? Or more dangerous. Its what the individual choices.. and adjust the classes as I suggested still won't get rid of the guy who still wishes to push the boundaries of conditioning.. mental illness? Perhaps but it's his choice.. or her choice.. even if they reduce the standard for conditioning the sad fact is bodybuilders will still " hedge their bets" and push conditioning " just in case".. its human nature. Can't save people from themselves.. might save a few with the changes.. but it will just start all over again eventually..

 

[TheOtherOne55]

100% with Big Dave.

Change nothing.

I do agree with LATS about making 212 a height thing now.
Getting lean is so fucking individual that making sweeping changes will do nothing and will piss people off.

 

[Fit2Serve]

Big possibility of some changes to judging as a result of recent deaths...

I was thinking in addition to testing for diuretics, judges could be instructed to ignore glute striations and lower back dryness, and those seem to be the two areas that guys need to kill themselves (no pun intended) in order get super lean

Focus instead on shape, lines symmetry, and aesthetics... essentially most dramatic X shape wins regardless of conditioning (assuming a certain baseline level of no real visible "fat")...

Kuclo woulda won past 2 shows!!!!

 

[nothuman]

Big possibility of some changes to judging as a result of recent deaths...

I was thinking in addition to testing for diuretics, judges could be instructed to ignore glute striations and lower back dryness, and those seem to be the two areas that guys need to kill themselves (no pun intended) in order get super lean

Focus instead on shape, lines symmetry, and aesthetics... essentially most dramatic X shape wins regardless of conditioning (assuming a certain baseline level of no real visible "fat")...

Nooooo don’t change anything.

If something tragic happens, it’s because someone made the wrong choices. It’s not up to the judges or the ifbb to react to something unfortunate just for the sake of acting like they care.

 

[Cito33189]

Big Rami is ready you see his face at the press conference

 

[Fit2Serve]

excellent idea to make 212 a height thing like back in Franco's day!

the sport will always be dangerous. imo diuretic abuse just kills competitors quickest. but in the long run many will succomb to heart and kidney problems.
bc drug use is permitted to make it a level playing field EVERYONE has to use drugs.
if u are just gonna run 1gm test and slin for carb up best of luck to ya.... u gotta do lots of drugs to be competitive.
that is the sport we have chosen/chose