Just read Dante's thread. Need a reality check on calories - transitioning from cut.

[Klax]

I was reading through Dante's thread from 2010 today where he explains not being afraid to put on a little fluff during the offseason if you want to put on actual mass and not waste time staying <12% just so you can be "lean" year-round. What I gathered from this thread was that the most successful guys who packed on mass quickly got a *little* sloppy in the offseason. Not crazy, just didn't try to stay shredded.

So here I am... I did a ridiculous cut this fall from 200 down to 168 pounds at 6'0" (yes, way too light, not enough mass, but at least I'm not fat anymore). I ended up at 1500-1700 calories daily. I'm currently transitioning to a mass phase where I want to spend basically all of 2026 putting on mass. I'm 34 and my goal before 40 is to get my pro card. I'm serious. It's something I decided a few months ago and I'm doing it no matter what. I'm at least going to try my best. I cannot look back and say I didn't try. Not an option.

I've been getting some advice from a coach who put me on a plan ~3 weeks ago:

1) Raise my daily calories immediately to 2400 (275c, 180p, 65f)
2) Stay at 2400 for 3-4 weeks, check weight.
3) If I'm gaining 1-2lbs a week, up by 200 calories.
4) Stay on this schedule, adding 200 calories every few weeks until I start to put on too much fat, then dial it back.

I'm currently sitting at 174lbs after 3 weeks of this. I'm assuming the 6lbs is mostly glycogen refilling since I was super flat. I'm also a bit watery/soft, probably my body getting used to the additional carbs and calories.

Problem is, I'm always starving. I feel like I'm still cutting at 2400 calories. I just want to eat. Coach said this is my leptin/ghrelin/hunger signaling starting to stabilize, and I need to resist the urge to go over my 2400 calories right now to keep the fat off while my body adjusts.

That said, I'm sure there are different opinions here, and I'd love to hear them. Do I stay at this level and slowly increase? Or do I up my calories? 174lbs trying to gain on 2400-2600 calories feels a bit low. Coach said my metabolism is still ramping up from the stupid 1500-1700 calorie cut I was on and I shouldn't push it yet. We're basically reverse dieting.

Started running 750mg test, 400mg primo, 6iu GH a day. I should note I'm tempted to push the GH higher... I have zero sides (yes, it's good GH).

What are your thoughts on caloric management when transitioning like this? While I want to put on some serious mass this year, I also don't want to have to spend months dieting back down, or get too sloppy. If I reach a certain BF% I'm going to want to cut back down so I don't look like a steaming pile of garbage with muscle.

Attached is a pic of where I ended my cut. I posted this before in another thread, but it's just a morning pic, fresh out of bed, no pump. I'm up 6-8lbs from that pic and lost some definition, a little more watery/bloofy at the moment. Definitely a thick layer of water on my abdomen now. Could be the GH increase as well. Went from 4iu to 6iu.

Anyway, would love to hear some discussion surrounding this. Dante's thread was great, but also from 15 years ago. Figured some beliefs may have changed since and I want to make sure I'm not spinning my wheels forever.

 

[AllOkJumpmaster]

1-2lbs a week is too fast, its is going to be mostly fat, err on the side of the lowest amount of a surplus as you can get a way with while still gaining. The last thing you want to do after a successful cut is add unnecessary body fat. The scale moving =/= muscle gain.

Coach is right about your hunger and satiety hormones, that said, if you are hungry, use volume eating to compensate, resist the urge to destroy food, you will regret it when the hormones balance back out. The hormonal skew will balance out when you gain body fat back enough to a healthy level. Have the fortitude to get back there in a reasonable time line and avoid the deleterious effect of adding too much back too fast.

 

[hawkmoon]

Listen to your coach, don't second guess him.

Take some time with the new adjusted diet.

Don't up anything with PEDs. 6iu GH is plenty, I average about 4 per day with 3x a week 8iu dosing.
More GH will just make it harder to gain without ramping calories even higher.

 

[Thebiggestdumbass]

Listen to your coach

This. No point in paying someone if you’re going to second guess their guidance.

Your suppose to be hungry during a reverse though.

 

[specter]

Listen to your coach, don't second guess him.

Take some time with the new adjusted diet.

Don't up anything with PEDs. 6iu GH is plenty, I average about 4 per day with 3x a week 8iu dosing.
More GH will just make it harder to gain without ramping calories even higher.

People alwayes do this.. when i was being coached by Meadows i listeneded to him and only him, same goes for Jordan Peters, why pay someone if your gonna second guess half the shit they tell ya.

 

[luki7788]

If you're not hungry during the offseason, it's a bad sign.

If you're hungry, stay calm and don't worry—it's a great sign.

Others have already said it all: STICK TO YOUR COACH RECOMMENDATIONS, because if you try to figure things out on your own, nothing will work.

 

[specter]

If you're not hungry during the offseason, it's a bad sign.

If you're hungry, stay calm and don't worry—it's a great sign.

Others have already said it all: STICK TO YOUR COACH RECOMMENDATIONS, because if you try to figure things out on your own, nothing will work.

End Thread....

 

[Flex500]

I was reading through Dante's thread from 2010 today where he explains not being afraid to put on a little fluff during the offseason if you want to put on actual mass and not waste time staying <12% just so you can be "lean" year-round. What I gathered from this thread was that the most successful guys who packed on mass quickly got a *little* sloppy in the offseason. Not crazy, just didn't try to stay shredded.

So here I am... I did a ridiculous cut this fall from 200 down to 168 pounds at 6'0" (yes, way too light, not enough mass, but at least I'm not fat anymore). I ended up at 1500-1700 calories daily. I'm currently transitioning to a mass phase where I want to spend basically all of 2026 putting on mass. I'm 34 and my goal before 40 is to get my pro card. I'm serious. It's something I decided a few months ago and I'm doing it no matter what. I'm at least going to try my best. I cannot look back and say I didn't try. Not an option.

I've been getting some advice from a coach who put me on a plan ~3 weeks ago:

1) Raise my daily calories immediately to 2400 (275c, 180p, 65f)
2) Stay at 2400 for 3-4 weeks, check weight.
3) If I'm gaining 1-2lbs a week, up by 200 calories.
4) Stay on this schedule, adding 200 calories every few weeks until I start to put on too much fat, then dial it back.

I'm currently sitting at 174lbs after 3 weeks of this. I'm assuming the 6lbs is mostly glycogen refilling since I was super flat. I'm also a bit watery/soft, probably my body getting used to the additional carbs and calories.

Problem is, I'm always starving. I feel like I'm still cutting at 2400 calories. I just want to eat. Coach said this is my leptin/ghrelin/hunger signaling starting to stabilize, and I need to resist the urge to go over my 2400 calories right now to keep the fat off while my body adjusts.

That said, I'm sure there are different opinions here, and I'd love to hear them. Do I stay at this level and slowly increase? Or do I up my calories? 174lbs trying to gain on 2400-2600 calories feels a bit low. Coach said my metabolism is still ramping up from the stupid 1500-1700 calorie cut I was on and I shouldn't push it yet. We're basically reverse dieting.

Started running 750mg test, 400mg primo, 6iu GH a day. I should note I'm tempted to push the GH higher... I have zero sides (yes, it's good GH).

What are your thoughts on caloric management when transitioning like this? While I want to put on some serious mass this year, I also don't want to have to spend months dieting back down, or get too sloppy. If I reach a certain BF% I'm going to want to cut back down so I don't look like a steaming pile of garbage with muscle.

Attached is a pic of where I ended my cut. I posted this before in another thread, but it's just a morning pic, fresh out of bed, no pump. I'm up 6-8lbs from that pic and lost some definition, a little more watery/bloofy at the moment. Definitely a thick layer of water on my abdomen now. Could be the GH increase as well. Went from 4iu to 6iu.

Anyway, would love to hear some discussion surrounding this. Dante's thread was great, but also from 15 years ago. Figured some beliefs may have changed since and I want to make sure I'm not spinning my wheels forever.

what everyone else posted here is correct and right on the money.

To be honest, this feels a little less like you can't handle 2,400 and more that you were on calories fit for my 128 pound wife for very long time and you had your fill of pizza and donuts. I'm NOT saying everyone should have a few days of pizza and donuts because for a lot of people a few days becomes a few weeks becomes a few months and your 20% bodyfat again with a terrible relationship with food.

I think your coach is right though. I'd try to eat volume food and brute force through the next few weeks but having a bit of a relaxed Saturday night meal or whatever is maybe something you and your coach can discuss that could help mentally and physically. I'm not talking about a 12,000 calorie cheat day weekly. But being able to "put your hair down" a few hours and have a burger and fries and a piece of cheesecake may be helpful. That said, normalizing your hunger signals and sticking with the 2,400 is the right move right now.

 

[qbkilla]

Id follow your coach if your paying him...then asking for input here..too many cooks in the kitchen

Imo you contradict yourself...you say your ok with getting fluffy (i don't think this is necessary) then you acknowledge you don't wanna just put on alot of slop and have to cut all over again

As others said those calories are low...im maintaining 174 at 2700. I see you mention calories but thats only half the equation...how many steps did you get yesterday? The day before, and the day before that? Tracking calories without steps is like Tracking reps you did without logging the weight. A man who gets 3k a day is a snail, a man who gets 15k a day is a furnace. Lol

 

[SouthernMuscle]

Who’s your coach

 

[SABAGOY]

If you have a goal of the turning pro in the next few years, I’m sure you have a decent amount of stage experience…can you post any stage shots?

 

[bbxtreme]

Why didn’t you just bump your other thread from a few weeks back?

The only thing that will cause you to fail in this sport is analysis paralysis. New members and all of us did this at some point, but it’s why reading through all the post here as a new member are so important.

You said in your other thread all you see is fat when you look in the mirror and now you’re questioning the coach you just hired and wondering if you should use Dante’s old method of bulking or a heavy offseason.

It’s all about what you can stick with. This is a slow moving sport. You can suffer a little less now and reverse diet your way up and stay lean which will yield an easier prep. OR you can push the scale and get uncomfortable by carrying extra fat around and then losing some tissue when you diet down. Both paths are uncomfortable… which will you stick with. My money is on the first one based on your post to date.

I’ll add that you’re 34 and just getting back to the game and lost a lot of bodyfat recently. At that age unless you have done extensive bloodwork and cardiac testing I think a heavy bulk and push would be a terrible idea. It’s like turning on the water in old pipes that haven’t been used in years. Pushing weight and PED’s is going to expose every health weakness you have at your age.

Either way, know what you’re getting into, accept the risk, compromises and be patient.

 

[Klax]

Who’s your coach

Local guy

 

[Klax]

If you have a goal of the turning pro in the next few years, I’m sure you have a decent amount of stage experience…can you post any stage shots?

No stage experience. This is a new endeavor for me.

 

[Klax]

Why didn’t you just bump your other thread from a few weeks back?

The only thing that will cause you to fail in this sport is analysis paralysis. New members and all of us did this at some point, but it’s why reading through all the post here as a new member are so important.

You said in your other thread all you see is fat when you look in the mirror and now you’re questioning the coach you just hired and wondering if you should use Dante’s old method of bulking or a heavy offseason.

It’s all about what you can stick with. This is a slow moving sport. You can suffer a little less now and reverse diet your way up and stay lean which will yield an easier prep. OR you can push the scale and get uncomfortable by carrying extra fat around and then losing some tissue when you diet down. Both paths are uncomfortable… which will you stick with. My money is on the first one based on your post to date.

I’ll add that you’re 34 and just getting back to the game and lost a lot of bodyfat recently. At that age unless you have done extensive bloodwork and cardiac testing I think a heavy bulk and push would be a terrible idea. It’s like turning on the water in old pipes that haven’t been used in years. Pushing weight and PED’s is going to expose every health weakness you have at your age.

Either way, know what you’re getting into, accept the risk, compromises and be patient.

Only reason I was curious was because my coach is very much about taking things very slow and adding as little BF as possible during a mass phase. However, that thread I read basically states that trying to stay lean year round is a good way to look the same year over year and waste time.

 

[pistonpump]

At your current height and weight and background of being 20%bf recently I think u have a long way to go to be pro. U need to be patient and get a good system of diet and training and it will be compounded year after year to where u can get back to 200+lbs lean. It seems like u want this to happen very soon but don't get too ahead of yourself esp if u just started.

 

[southernmucle214]

Hopefully you're aware that at your height a professional bodybuilder in the off-season is north of 100lbs of what you currently weigh. That is a tall task at 34 and not having alien like genetics.

 

[Klax]

All-

I’m fully aware I’m a LONG way away from my goals. I’m not expecting anything fast, or easy. Just a goal. I need a goal. My goal is to get my pro card. I understand it’s not easy. I understand I’m absolutely years away. I understand if I’m lucky, I’ll MAYBE have a shot at masters someday. However, the last thing I expect from a brotherhood of lifters is a bunch of “Nah, don’t even try bro, you won’t make it” talk. That’s some other board bullshit. Not what I expect from PM.

Just wanted to know if you guys thought my intake was appropriate.

Thanks.

 

[Communion]

Only reason I was curious was because my coach is very much about taking things very slow and adding as little BF as possible during a mass phase. However, that thread I read basically states that trying to stay lean year round is a good way to look the same year over year and waste time.

If you don’t like your coaches methods, then find a new coach. I don’t understand why people pay for guidance and advice and then second-guess it.

 

[Samson250]

All-

I’m fully aware I’m a LONG way away from my goals. I’m not expecting anything fast, or easy. Just a goal. I need a goal. My goal is to get my pro card. I understand it’s not easy. I understand I’m absolutely years away. I understand if I’m lucky, I’ll MAYBE have a shot at masters someday. However, the last thing I expect from a brotherhood of lifters is a bunch of “Nah, don’t even try bro, you won’t make it” talk. That’s some other board bullshit. Not what I expect from PM.

Just wanted to know if you guys thought my intake was appropriate.

Thanks.

Full disclosure I’ve only read the post I quoted above. It’s the last thing we would expect! Yes! But it’s not. It’s awesome. This Forum is the furnace for our dreams baby! The posts, the good and the bad, are the burning hot coals that forge our resolve. Forge us!