Just something that gets lost in this whole deal that I feel is utmost importance..

[Golden]

When referring to his hrt, is John talking about genuine hrt dosage? Some people consider 500mg as hrt!

 

[nothuman]

The question then remains how long does one need to hold that certain size before reaching homeostasis and not dropping?


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Not that long for me. A few years. I have to eat pretty much nothing to lose muscle.

 

[kinglewy]

Not that long for me. A few years. I have to eat pretty much nothing to lose muscle.

Come on man a few years is a long time.....I dont think it takes a few years but maybe quite a few months

 

[nothuman]

Bottom line is TRT/HRT is still enhanced. So idk why some of these guys act like this is news or incredible. Especially if you are doing advanced techniques like frequent injections and adding GH etc. This is not natural at all, not even close. You don't have the ups and downs you would, instead your keeping your levels elevated all the time. It's apples to oranges. If these guys were to completely come off, they would lose a lot more. That's why TRT is a good approach.

x2

Rambo i posted my bloods i did last year on 250 mg test cyp ( in kaladryn's thread on DIM) and i remember thinking to me then just look at my test levels , total and free at just 1 ml of shit , nearly triple the range! Do I really need more then say 250 mg test ? i thought there is plenty of test circulating in my body to grow and repair muscle all I need is to focus on training and diet and that's it.

The great results i saw kind of put me off from running high test as i felt i might be overdoing it unnecessarily.

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It's not surprising to us specifically, but there are an alarming amount of people afraid to come down to a true TRT dose due to fear of losing muscle, which leads to major health ramifications.

 

[nothuman]

Come on man a few years is a long time.....I dont think it takes a few years but maybe quite a few months

A few months to reach a new set point? There's a guy on the last page saying it would probably take a decade (which is untrue). It's easier to lose muscle if you only held it for a few months. Harder after a few years.

 

[thethinker48]

Come on man a few years is a long time.....I dont think it takes a few years but maybe quite a few months

There is no concrete answer to this. It all depends on your own individual physiology.

For some it's months, for others it's years. It also depends how FAR up you are from your genetic potential.

 

[kinglewy]

A few months to reach a new set point? There's a guy on the last page saying it would probably take a decade (which is untrue). It's easier to lose muscle if you only held it for a few months. Harder after a few years.

Yeah but remember while you are trying to achieve homeostasis you have to keep your levels high.....that would mean blasting grams upon grams for years

 

[thethinker48]

When referring to his hrt, is John talking about genuine hrt dosage? Some people consider 500mg as hrt!

John runs 200 mgs of testosterone a week in the off season with 3-4 ius of GH. That's it.

Dusty runs 200 mgs of testosterone as well; not sure if he uses GH, He's held a non-sloppy 280 lbs on 200 mgs of test easily in the past. Look at the way he trains, and his meticulous eating; doesn't surprise me one bit.

 

[Elvia1023]

Yeah but remember while you are trying to achieve homeostasis you have to keep your levels high.....that would mean blasting grams upon grams for years

That's relative to the individual also. Not everyone has to blast grams upon grams to be huge. Some guys can do it with low amounts. It's more just holding that weight over a period of time. Although sure many do blast away then they suddenly forget their past

 

[thethinker48]

Yeah but remember while you are trying to achieve homeostasis you have to keep your levels high.....that would mean blasting grams upon grams for years

"gram" and "grams upon grams" are 2 VERY different things. You are not getting exponential benefits from going from 1 gram to 3 grams. Add GH, and add YEARS of progression, and it's no freaking surprise.

Not sure if any of you have seen John's bloodwork that he shares on mountaindogdiet; Absolutely perfect in the off season. He wouldn't have done this for 30+ years if it was pedal to the medal for the past 20 years.

 

[nothuman]

Yeah but remember while you are trying to achieve homeostasis you have to keep your levels high.....that would mean blasting grams upon grams for years

I think you misunderstood my original post judging by your last sentence. I’m saying you need to hold a large amount of muscle for a few years before it becomes “permanent” (i use the term loosely) on TRT. If you get big from blasting for a few months, it’s probably easier to lose that muscle than if you were blasting for a few years. Aka muscle maturity. It sounds like you’re agreeing.

 

[kinglewy]

"gram" and "grams upon grams" are 2 VERY different things. You are not getting exponential benefits from going from 1 gram to 3 grams. Add GH, and add YEARS of progression, and it's no freaking surprise.

Not sure if any of you have seen John's bloodwork that he shares on mountaindogdiet; Absolutely perfect in the off season. He wouldn't have done this for 30+ years if it was pedal to the medal for the past 20 years.

I understand what you are saying....but JM has been doing this for over 2 decades.....im talking about the guy who is 200 and wants to be 225 or even 250.....he has to keep those levels sky high the whole time or else he will lose size.....now once his body has adapted to the new weight then he may be able to drop the dose but not any sooner.....a lot of the size game is being able to put up with sides until the body regulates itself I truly believe

 

[nothuman]

I understand what you are saying....but JM has been doing this for over 2 decades.....im talking about the guy who is 200 and wants to be 225 or even 250.....he has to keep those levels sky high the whole time or else he will lose size.....now once his body has adapted to the new weight then he may be able to drop the dose but not any sooner.....a lot of the size game is being able to put up with sides until the body regulates itself I truly believe

I think we are all in agreement

 

[Elvia1023]

"gram" and "grams upon grams" are 2 VERY different things. You are not getting exponential benefits from going from 1 gram to 3 grams. Add GH, and add YEARS of progression, and it's no freaking surprise.

Not sure if any of you have seen John's bloodwork that he shares on mountaindogdiet; Absolutely perfect in the off season. He wouldn't have done this for 30+ years if it was pedal to the medal for the past 20 years.

That is true about John so my post is in no way about him. But there are many guys blasting grams and grams and their blood work isn't all bad. It will catch up with them eventually but there are a lot of guys who have been running high doses for many years with no ill effects. One guy can take 500mg test and 40mg avar and be a walking mess with acid reflux, edema, gyno, liver issues, hdl of 5 and sex issues. Another guy could be on 3g test, 2g tren and 100mg adrol and seem fine and his bloodwork is ok and he sweats a little.

 

[thethinker48]

I understand what you are saying....but JM has been doing this for over 2 decades.....im talking about the guy who is 200 and wants to be 225 or even 250.....he has to keep those levels sky high the whole time or else he will lose size.....now once his body has adapted to the new weight then he may be able to drop the dose but not any sooner.....a lot of the size game is being able to put up with sides until the body regulates itself I truly believe

It depends how fast that guy wants to get there. Nowadays everyone wants 25 "dry" lb jumps very quickly. Yes, that's not coming without high drugs, and high side effects.

Take a slower and healthier approach and it won't be a game of frying out your organs. It will also be an indicator of whether or not you truly have the genetics to even be at that size.

Some guys will never be 240 lbs if their DNA does not allow them; they can "hold" 240 lbs on a pharmacy, but then the clock ticks for them for when their body shuts down. This is where having your head on straight will keep you alive.

 

[thethinker48]

That is true about John so my post is in no way about him. But there are many guys blasting grams and grams and their blood work isn't all bad. It will catch up with them eventually but there are a lot of guys who have been running high doses for many years with no ill effects. One guy can take 500mg test and 40mg avar and be a walking mess with acid reflux, edema, gyno, liver issues, hdl of 5 and sex issues. Another guy could be on 3g test, 2g tren and 100mg adrol and seem fine and his bloodwork is ok and he sweats a little.

This is the key statement right here.

I hate to say this, but how freaking long was Rich Pianas run in this? 20+ years of taking god knows what (whether that's steroids, rec drugs, painkillers, stimulants), injecting some alien goo into harms, and having a not so great diet.

People were shocked at his death (and may he RIP), I was shocked his body took that for so long; it's an incredibly resilient creature that's for sure. How resilient? Well this is where mom and pop played a huge role

 

[thatguy78]

This is breaking news?

 

[Elvia1023]

I understand what you are saying....but JM has been doing this for over 2 decades.....im talking about the guy who is 200 and wants to be 225 or even 250.....he has to keep those levels sky high the whole time or else he will lose size.....now once his body has adapted to the new weight then he may be able to drop the dose but not any sooner.....a lot of the size game is being able to put up with sides until the body regulates itself I truly believe

Of course. Many can't keep up with the food though. Some guys are simply not meant to be 225-250 either. Everyone (well most) could do it though but some would literally have to put 10x more effort in than others. This is just a rough number and literally half of it could do but I think even 1 gram of test would be plenty for most people. It's all about the food really. Now genetics, training and drugs will dictate how good you look at 250 for example. But if the food and training is 100% every single day for years most could get very big and relatively lean on approx 1 gram of test imo. Again 1 gram wouldn't even be needed. The idea that it takes grams of gear to get to x weight is not true but sure it definitely helps.

Some of the main areas I think people need to ensure are maximized when doing this would be insulin sensitivity, appetite and digestion. All of them coupled with very high hormones levels and consistent diet/training and it's just a matter of time until you reach your goal (225-250). So many variables but it could take years and it depends where you start off. You could do it in less time imo as you are half way there.

 

[Elvia1023]

This is the key statement right here.

I hate to say this, but how freaking long was Rich Pianas run in this? 20+ years of taking god knows what (whether that's steroids, rec drugs, painkillers, stimulants), injecting some alien goo into harms, and having a not so great diet.

People were shocked at his death (and may he RIP), I was shocked his body took that for so long; it's an incredibly resilient creature that's for sure. How resilient? Well this is where mom and pop played a huge role

I thought that. He done good to get to 46 in many ways. I know one guy who is that age and he still usages 300mg dbol etc per day. He had no major side effects on extreme doses. However his heart is enlarged so he is a time bomb as he hasn't changes his ways.

 

[Kaladryn]

This is the key statement right here.

I hate to say this, but how freaking long was Rich Pianas run in this? 20+ years of taking god knows what (whether that's steroids, rec drugs, painkillers, stimulants), injecting some alien goo into harms, and having a not so great diet.

People were shocked at his death (and may he RIP), I was shocked his body took that for so long; it's an incredibly resilient creature that's for sure. How resilient? Well this is where mom and pop played a huge role

True but it is also true that every Mr Olympia ever is still alive except for one I believe, maybe two now...