Just survived heart attack at age 38, follow up to Phil's post

[oldfella]

Damn MAL, that is one hell of a story. I am glad you are here to tell us all about it. This is an eye opener for many. We all take things for granted and our health is usually one of them. Just because we look great does not mean we do not have underlying problems. And of course at 38 the last thing on your mind would be heart attack. Maybe it is time to get 6 monthly checks instead of yearly. But the question is would it have made any difference? since other than HDl reading low there were no other indicators. One thing for sure.........this sort of thing makes you sit up and think.

MAL, Glad you are still here among us bro. You are a good man!!

 

[bhumik]

dammmmmnnn.. man. thats some scary stuff. good thing you survived through it. good luck man. /you were only using aas for 8 years?? were ur cycles crazy/??

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

If i might comment on this.

Ive always thought people put so much confidence in blood work and in some cases thats rightfully so.

My cholesterol has always been low, my LDL low, my HDL average, hema average etc etc etc

About a year and a half ago I had been pounding bacon and buffetts and eating really crappy for about a month straight......very unlike me because im usually pretty robotic with my diet and eat the same things every day every week....but when i go off my diet or take a break training....I really want to indulge in what i havent been eating and this was one of those times.

I went in for blood work 1.5 years ago after this binge and my blood work was awful......and I knew it was pretty much from the binge but regardless I found it highly unnacceptable....especially my HDl which was way too low.

So I designed a regimen for myself using supplements that went after all the problems I percieved by that one bad blood work (including liquid caps Vitamin D at 6-8 grams a day) **broken link removed** among a slew of other supplements that ive talked about on this board before........60 days later i had blood work done again and it was stellar and my HDL had jumped up an unbelievable amount.

I felt with all the stories Ive seen online with people saying "and i have had regular blood work and everything was fine" yet still suffering health problems....that this wasnt good enough.

So I ante'd up and paid 1400 dollars for a body imagery scan at a highly regarded center here in so california....MRI, CT, Ultrasound....the works.

This was by far the best money Ive ever paid. These doctors went thru everything in my upper body with a fine tooth comb.

She went thru all the results with me for an hour and a half, gave me all my imagery disks and even told me things I didnt know I had wrong with me.

My cardiac score? Zero. She said she never has seen a man my age 39 with a cardiac score of zero. I have zero plaque in my heart and surrounding vessels and she spent an hour on my carotoids and found zero plaque. My heart was incredibly healthy function and structure wise with blood flow. Very slight LVH but right in the guidelines of an athlete.

Liver, kidneys, intestines, colon etc etc etc all in excellent condition.

This is how thorough these physicians were.....

She asked if I ever worked in a hazardous environment or had any very bad lung infections.....in which i replied yes to both as I had worked around silica sand back in the day for about 4 years and also had some bad bronchitis infections back in the day (not in the last 4 years though due to my supplement regimen for my immune system....been sick once in 4 years, small cold and it was when i went off the beta glucans)

The physician had found a ultra tiny piece of scar tissue or polyp in my lung, so small it had to be magnified many many times just to make it out but it was in there....and I was told "it most likely is nothing but i want to check on it in a year to make sure it hasnt grown----right now its iota of a pinhead but lets just make sure it stays that way---i think its nothing but lets take a look at it in a year"

She saw that my disks at the bottom of my spine were slightly slipped and compressed and that I needed to keep an eye on that (which i knew and a chiro fixes me 2x a month)

And she says "see this? you have a slight hernia on the left side here down in the lower abdominal region....just be careful" ----something I also knew but never thought they would pick up.

Ill tell you this.....getting this full imagery done gave me better peice of mind than any bloodtest could ever do and I really cant recommend this enough.
I wouldnt wait until something bad happened to get onboard with this stuff. My business partner who is 31 went in for a full imagery and they found out he has a defective leaky valve (2 flaps instead of the 3 flaps we all have-bicuspid) and he has to have open heart surgery in his 30's sometime to replace this valve.

I just see this board and other bbing boards online depend greatly on bloodwork and hell thats 10x better than getting no bloodwork which a great many bbers do.....but why not take it a step further and get the full imagery workup from a highly regarded firm?

Question for Maldorf because I have a theory Ive been throwing about as of late......how is your sleep apnea? nonexistant or existant?

 

[Kane]

Maldorf,

Glad to hear that your ok and doing well. The important thing is that you stay around and be there for your kids. You'll probably have to make some changes to the way you're used to doing things but you should still be able to train.

There's a board member that I'm friends with who has had open heart surgery twice because of a bad valve. He was a national level competitor and was told he wouldn't be able to lift weights again. He had to make some changes and he'll never be able to compete again but he's still training and looks great.

DC, makes a great point in that to often we depend solely on blood test results. I may follow suit and go for a full body imagery scan so I can have piece of mind.

 

[PHIL HERNON]

WOW

If i might comment on this.

Ive always thought people put so much confidence in blood work and in some cases thats rightfully so.

My cholesterol has always been low, my LDL low, my HDL average, hema average etc etc etc

About a year and a half ago I had been pounding bacon and buffetts and eating really crappy for about a month straight......very unlike me because im usually pretty robotic with my diet and eat the same things every day every week....but when i go off my diet or take a break training....I really want to indulge in what i havent been eating and this was one of those times.

I went in for blood work 1.5 years ago after this binge and my blood work was awful......and I knew it was pretty much from the binge but regardless I found it highly unnacceptable....especially my HDl which was way too low.

So I designed a regimen for myself using supplements that went after all the problems I percieved by that one bad blood work (including liquid caps Vitamin D at 6-8 grams a day) **broken link removed** among a slew of other supplements that ive talked about on this board before........60 days later i had blood work done again and it was stellar and my HDL had jumped up an unbelievable amount.

I felt with all the stories Ive seen online with people saying "and i have had regular blood work and everything was fine" yet still suffering health problems....that this wasnt good enough.

So I ante'd up and paid 1400 dollars for a body imagery scan at a highly regarded center here in so california....MRI, CT, Ultrasound....the works.

This was by far the best money Ive ever paid. These doctors went thru everything in my upper body with a fine tooth comb.

She went thru all the results with me for an hour and a half, gave me all my imagery disks and even told me things I didnt know I had wrong with me.

My cardiac score? Zero. She said she never has seen a man my age 39 with a cardiac score of zero. I have zero plaque in my heart and surrounding vessels and she spent an hour on my carotoids and found zero plaque. My heart was incredibly healthy function and structure wise with blood flow. Very slight LVH but right in the guidelines of an athlete.

Liver, kidneys, intestines, colon etc etc etc all in excellent condition.

This is how thorough these physicians were.....

She asked if I ever worked in a hazardous environment or had any very bad lung infections.....in which i replied yes to both as I had worked around silica sand back in the day for about 4 years and also had some bad bronchitis infections back in the day (not in the last 4 years though due to my supplement regimen for my immune system....been sick once in 4 years, small cold and it was when i went off the beta glucans)

The physician had found a ultra tiny piece of scar tissue or polyp in my lung, so small it had to be magnified many many times just to make it out but it was in there....and I was told "it most likely is nothing but i want to check on it in a year to make sure it hasnt grown----right now its iota of a pinhead but lets just make sure it stays that way---i think its nothing but lets take a look at it in a year"

She saw that my disks at the bottom of my spine were slightly slipped and compressed and that I needed to keep an eye on that (which i knew and a chiro fixes me 2x a month)

And she says "see this? you have a slight hernia on the left side here down in the lower abdominal region....just be careful" ----something I also knew but never thought they would pick up.

Ill tell you this.....getting this full imagery done gave me better peice of mind than any bloodtest could ever do and I really cant recommend this enough.
I wouldnt wait until something bad happened to get onboard with this stuff. My business partner who is 31 went in for a full imagery and they found out he has a defective leaky valve (2 flaps instead of the 3 flaps we all have-bicuspid) and he has to have open heart surgery in his 30's sometime to replace this valve.

I just see this board and other bbing boards online depend greatly on bloodwork and hell thats 10x better than getting no bloodwork which a great many bbers do.....but why not take it a step further and get the full imagery workup from a highly regarded firm?

Question for Maldorf because I have a theory Ive been throwing about as of late......how is your sleep apnea? nonexistant or existant?

I HAD THIS DONE ALSO ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO.....WELL WORTH IT.....SCARY, BUT WORTH IT.

 

[Prometheus615]

I HAD THIS DONE ALSO ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO.....WELL WORTH IT.....SCARY, BUT WORTH IT.

I am sold...def gonna get one also.

 

[chevster01]

Does insurance cover this procedure? Because even if they don't it's still worth it.

 

[Magnum]

I am very glad to hear that you are doing fine bro.


I have never put much faith in blood work, although I get a full check up once a year ( EKG, blood ect.) but none of that stuff means jack if you have no idea that your arteries are blocked!!!!!! It's all a guessing game otherwise.

 

[geo1958]

Yes, you can do a lot more

anything else? -STEELE

I've been reading this forum for a while, but have only joined to chime in here. Please excuse my butting in, but I feel strongly about this and want to help. There is a lot that can be done to check your heart. Unfortunately, most mainstream doctors don't perform these checks or recommend them or maybe even know about them. I am not a doctor, but have been looking into this to make sure I do what I can to avoid getting a heart attack (just turned 50). I also don't know what age it's a good idea to start this at, but if you are taking risks, you might want to do it regardless.

My main source where I got plugged into this was Dr. Davis' site: www.trackyourplaque.com . You can google info to find other sites as well.

As DC mentioned, very important to have a heart scan. (You can get a heart scan without the full body scan, if funds are tight.) What they'll do is give you an overall score AND the percentile you fall into for your sex and age. A score of 10 or less is considered no risk. People can have triple digit scores. Any score can be reduced to lower your risk, by taking appropriate action.

The heart scan detects plaque which is built up inside the wall of the artery. This type of plaque can rupture which then causes a clot to form resulting in the heart attack. This type of plaque is NOT the same as blockage detected by a stress test. That's the reason you have people who have an incident not long after passing a stress test (e.g. President Clinton & bypass surgery, Tim Russert & death). The plaque does not block the artery and cause symptoms. Your heart can pump like crazy lifting heavy iron or doing cardio and you think you're OK because you feel fine. (Think runner Jim Fixx, for those of you old enough.)

Blood tests are important, if you get the right ones. Some things to test:
HDL
Vitamin D
Triglycerides
C-reactive protein
Homocysteine
Fibrinogen

LDL is important, but not how you get it on most tests (LDL, HDL & total). There are different LDL particle sizes and it's the small LDL that's the real problem. Niacin can be used to reduce the amount of LDL and raise HDL. The no-flush varieties are useless. Niacin can stress the liver, but from what I've read, 500 mg is OK for the majority of people.

Besides Niacin, other things that help are: raw almonds, pectin powder (pectin is the stuff in orange rinds), raw walnuts, fish oil, fiber (Metamucil), oat bran, and cutting back on wheat products. (At the extreme, Dr. Mercola recommends dropping all grains.)

Dr. Davis recommends statins to get cholesterol very low in order to reduce plaque scores. Some are against statin use. (Is it big pharma again? Are there side effects, etc.?)

Making headlines more recently is the importance of vitamin D - maybe more important than all other factors. See: **broken link removed**


Blood pressure - it should go without saying, should be under control. I'm skeptical about lower recommendations (<120, <80). Is it just big pharma trying to sell more drugs? On the other hand, Dr. Davis reports that people in remote African villages have a BP around 90/60.

There's also BMI, but my guess is that the community in this forum is not considered in that analysis. On the other hand, some do hold the idea that weight, be it muscle or fat, is a risk. I don't know what the answer is there.

Sorry about the length of this and again, I apologize for butting in as my first post. I hope this info will be useful to some.

 

[Ness]

MALDORF

Ive read your posts for about 2 years now. Here and on other boards. You have always cared and looked out for everyone's best interests. Im sorry this has happened to you at such a young age, however, Im glad your back. Take care, bro.

 

[mikeheavypecs]

Bro Maldorf
WOW! I have been on vacation and been off the board for a while. I am VERY sorry to read your posting. I am glad you survived!! And your message is very clear to me. I am 55 this year, more muscular than ever and get all those comps that we all have to have about size, but your message makes me think about what I am doing to myself (AAS and GH) and what my heart looks like inside. Thanks to you, I am going to a cardiologist next week to get a complete workup so I know it is ok to continue or what.

I wish you the best in the future. I know how dedicated you are to the sport......we have PM'd over hte years. I can only imagine how you feel about your bodybuilding future, but maybe now it is not really that important to you.

Thanks for making me think there is more than MASS in life!

Much respect, my friend
MikeHeavypecs

 

[mikeheavypecs]

I HAD THIS DONE ALSO ABOUT 5 YEARS AGO.....WELL WORTH IT.....SCARY, BUT WORTH IT.

Phil,
I have major sleep apnea. I wondered why you were asking about it........
I have to have sinus surgery before I wear the CPAP Mask and have been putting it off......do you think apnea can cause strokes or heart attacks?

Thanks buddy!
Mike

 

[BIGKIWI]

Good to see you are feeling better and hopefully we can all learn take care

 

[sickboy]

Good stuff, you should post more. Thanks again for the info....

I've been reading this forum for a while, but have only joined to chime in here. Please excuse my butting in, but I feel strongly about this and want to help. There is a lot that can be done to check your heart. Unfortunately, most mainstream doctors don't perform these checks or recommend them or maybe even know about them. I am not a doctor, but have been looking into this to make sure I do what I can to avoid getting a heart attack (just turned 50). I also don't know what age it's a good idea to start this at, but if you are taking risks, you might want to do it regardless.

My main source where I got plugged into this was Dr. Davis' site: www.trackyourplaque.com . You can google info to find other sites as well.

As DC mentioned, very important to have a heart scan. (You can get a heart scan without the full body scan, if funds are tight.) What they'll do is give you an overall score AND the percentile you fall into for your sex and age. A score of 10 or less is considered no risk. People can have triple digit scores. Any score can be reduced to lower your risk, by taking appropriate action.

The heart scan detects plaque which is built up inside the wall of the artery. This type of plaque can rupture which then causes a clot to form resulting in the heart attack. This type of plaque is NOT the same as blockage detected by a stress test. That's the reason you have people who have an incident not long after passing a stress test (e.g. President Clinton & bypass surgery, Tim Russert & death). The plaque does not block the artery and cause symptoms. Your heart can pump like crazy lifting heavy iron or doing cardio and you think you're OK because you feel fine. (Think runner Jim Fixx, for those of you old enough.)

Blood tests are important, if you get the right ones. Some things to test:
HDL
Vitamin D
Triglycerides
C-reactive protein
Homocysteine
Fibrinogen

LDL is important, but not how you get it on most tests (LDL, HDL & total). There are different LDL particle sizes and it's the small LDL that's the real problem. Niacin can be used to reduce the amount of LDL and raise HDL. The no-flush varieties are useless. Niacin can stress the liver, but from what I've read, 500 mg is OK for the majority of people.

Besides Niacin, other things that help are: raw almonds, pectin powder (pectin is the stuff in orange rinds), raw walnuts, fish oil, fiber (Metamucil), oat bran, and cutting back on wheat products. (At the extreme, Dr. Mercola recommends dropping all grains.)

Dr. Davis recommends statins to get cholesterol very low in order to reduce plaque scores. Some are against statin use. (Is it big pharma again? Are there side effects, etc.?)

Making headlines more recently is the importance of vitamin D - maybe more important than all other factors. See: **broken link removed**


Blood pressure - it should go without saying, should be under control. I'm skeptical about lower recommendations (<120, <80). Is it just big pharma trying to sell more drugs? On the other hand, Dr. Davis reports that people in remote African villages have a BP around 90/60.

There's also BMI, but my guess is that the community in this forum is not considered in that analysis. On the other hand, some do hold the idea that weight, be it muscle or fat, is a risk. I don't know what the answer is there.

Sorry about the length of this and again, I apologize for butting in as my first post. I hope this info will be useful to some.

 

[NuTsOe]

i dont blame you one bit bro just focus on being a better husband & father to your family cause when its all said and done thats all that matters...thankgod you survived it could of been a hell of alot worse always tell yourself that,near death experiences are no joke & shouldnt be taken lightly keep them eyes wide open to the big picture bro...

 

[Thor]

ALL GOOD ADVICE

Maldorf,
Thank you so much for sharing this with all of us. This is very important stuff, Thank god you made it and can be there for your wife and daughters, I have one daughter who means the world to me and little girls NEED THEIR DADS AROUND ! You were given a second chance so please make the most of it. You have always been a good contributer to this board and I am sure I can speak for most when I say we enjoy your input. So take care of yourself (and your girls) and keep us posted.

 

[Walter E Kurtz]

i dont blame you one bit bro just focus on being a better husband & father to your family cause when its all said and done thats all that matters...thankgod you survived it could of been a hell of alot worse always tell yourself that,near death experiences are no joke & shouldnt be taken lightly keep them eyes wide open to the big picture bro...

Fine post. (Kudos to DOGGCRAP as well...highly informative).

Something I've contemplated as I've gotten older is whether or not the guys with wives + kids are doing a fair accounting of risk/reward with respect to their bodybuilding activities.

I'll pretty much try anything (within reason) that will give me an edge towards my goals, and I don't think AAS are terribly dangerous if used responsibly. That said, I don't have a wife, kids, a serious gf, and my folks are old but they have plenty of $$$...in other words, I don't have any dependents so I don't worry about it. If you have duties to others, I'd think twice about using yourself as a guinea pig.

At risk of sounding melodramatic, a hardcore bodybuilder is what Junger called a vanbanquespeiler...a ''player of dangerous games''.

 

[edge250]

Phil,
I have major sleep apnea. I wondered why you were asking about it........
I have to have sinus surgery before I wear the CPAP Mask and have been putting it off......do you think apnea can cause strokes or heart attacks?

Thanks buddy!
Mike

i had severe sleep apnea, my doctor and a group specialists told me if i were to have let it go they felt almost positive i would have stroked out or had a heart attack by my 40's. sleep apnea is a silent killer in our community, lots of guys dont even know they have it.

 

[Tom]

Phil,
I have major sleep apnea. I wondered why you were asking about it........
I have to have sinus surgery before I wear the CPAP Mask and have been putting it off......do you think apnea can cause strokes or heart attacks?

Thanks buddy!
Mike

Medical Consequences of Sleep Apnea
In some cases, rigorous data are lacking, but experts have at least the impression that obstructive sleep apnea (OSA) occurs more commonly in persons with the following:
Cardiovascular consequences of OSA:1
hypertension (high blood pressure)
heart failure
atherosclerosis (heart attacks, angina)
atherosclerosis (stroke)
atrial fibrillation
ventricular arrhythmias
pulmonary hypertension

Other consequences of OSA:
trauma (traffic accidents)
glaucoma
snoring spouse syndrome
diminished libido
in children: illness like attention deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD)
in children: slowed growth

Other associations with OSA:
obesity
obesity syndromes, such as Prader-Willi syndrome
polycystic ovary disease
renal failure
hypothyroidism
Marfan syndrome
Charcot-Marie-Tooth disease
post-polio syndrome
gastro-esophageal reflux
worsening of epilepsy
Hypertension and heart failure are strongly linked with sleep apnea. OSA appears to be a cause of hypertension. It appears that sleep can be either a cause or an effect of heart failure. Recent trials have demonstrated that treating sleep apnea in patients with heart failure is beneficial.
Persons with sleep apnea have an elevated risk of motor vehicle collisions. The risk returns to normal when the sleep apnea is successfully treated.

 

[pesty4077]

Maldorf, you just brought back some memories, at 37 I got a bad virus, that nearly kill me. I was rushed to the hospital, placed in the surgical intensive care unit. They had to pack ice on me, my temp was 105, I had fluid on my lungs and heart, and needed oyxgen to even breathe, and right before that I was healthy as can be. I thank God that he allow me to live, and be with my family. It kinda puts things in perspective, balance, like Phil is always saying. Maldorf, you got that 2nd chance in life, take care of that family, and I wish that God blesses you and your family and gives you good health.