Just survived heart attack at age 38, follow up to Phil's post

maldorf · Sep 4, 2020

Im ok. Was just taking a break from the board. Trying to relax more. Im a type A person, when I had a healthy heart it wasnt an issue but now with heart failure it can be deadly. Just a few days ago on Tuesday I got pissed off about something and my heart got stuck in A fib. That in turn messed up my ventricle rhythm as well. I had to go to the ER yet again and get defibrillated. I know the drill pretty well now!

The nurses there are beginning to know me now. So 2 trips in about 30 days. Seems my cardiologist isnt recommending anything new because he didnt call me today or yesterday. Trying to avoid amioderone since that causes thyroid failure and fibrosis of the lungs. My doc doesnt want me on it if we can help it, and I agree. It would most probably not be a matter of if i had those issue but just when it would happen. I love that guy! All of the other cardiologists I run into want to put me on it right away, but they forget that Im an otherwise healthy 50 year old that exercises still.

Just finished lifting and doing the treadmill an hour ago and I feel ok now. Did exercise 3x now since my last ER visit and so far my heart is maintaining sinus rhythm. Most days now it feels like I am walking on a tight rope, hoping that I dont fall off (get an arrhythmia). I am looking more fit now at least, more than I have in the past 2 years or more. Im down about 20 lbs and strength is the same if not a bit up. Trying to get leaner, but it is indeed hard. id like to do more time on the treadmill but my left knee hurts much of the time and if I do too much it really hurts bad. I need to buy a good stationary bike I think. Before covid I was using the bike at the gym. I exercise now only in the basement .

warlock · Sep 4, 2020

maldorf said:
Im ok. Was just taking a break from the board. Trying to relax more. Im a type A person, when I had a healthy heart it wasnt an issue but now with heart failure it can be deadly. Just a few days ago on Tuesday I got pissed off about something and my heart got stuck in A fib. That in turn messed up my ventricle rhythm as well. I had to go to the ER yet again and get defibrillated. I know the drill pretty well now! The nurses there are beginning to know me now. So 2 trips in about 30 days. Seems my cardiologist isnt recommending anything new because he didnt call me today or yesterday. Trying to avoid amioderone since that causes thyroid failure and fibrosis of the lungs. My doc doesnt want me on it if we can help it, and I agree. It would most probably not be a matter of if i had those issue but just when it would happen. I love that guy! All of the other cardiologists I run into want to put me on it right away, but they forget that Im an otherwise healthy 50 year old that exercises still.

Just finished lifting and doing the treadmill an hour ago and I feel ok now. Did exercise 3x now since my last ER visit and so far my heart is maintaining sinus rhythm. Most days now it feels like I am walking on a tight rope, hoping that I dont fall off (get an arrhythmia). I am looking more fit now at least, more than I have in the past 2 years or more. Im down about 20 lbs and strength is the same if not a bit up. Trying to get leaner, but it is indeed hard. id like to do more time on the treadmill but my left knee hurts much of the time and if I do too much it really hurts bad. I need to buy a good stationary bike I think. Before covid I was using the bike at the gym. I exercise now only in the basement .

Thanks for the update maldorf. Obviously, you need to do what's best for you and keep yourself mentally healthy. We worry when you don't post. I'm just glad you're doing well even with the Afib issues. Take time off the board if you need to, but let us know when you do so that we are all aware of it

qbkilla · Sep 5, 2020

maldorf said:
Im ok. Was just taking a break from the board. Trying to relax more. Im a type A person, when I had a healthy heart it wasnt an issue but now with heart failure it can be deadly. Just a few days ago on Tuesday I got pissed off about something and my heart got stuck in A fib. That in turn messed up my ventricle rhythm as well. I had to go to the ER yet again and get defibrillated. I know the drill pretty well now! The nurses there are beginning to know me now. So 2 trips in about 30 days. Seems my cardiologist isnt recommending anything new because he didnt call me today or yesterday. Trying to avoid amioderone since that causes thyroid failure and fibrosis of the lungs. My doc doesnt want me on it if we can help it, and I agree. It would most probably not be a matter of if i had those issue but just when it would happen. I love that guy! All of the other cardiologists I run into want to put me on it right away, but they forget that Im an otherwise healthy 50 year old that exercises still.

Just finished lifting and doing the treadmill an hour ago and I feel ok now. Did exercise 3x now since my last ER visit and so far my heart is maintaining sinus rhythm. Most days now it feels like I am walking on a tight rope, hoping that I dont fall off (get an arrhythmia). I am looking more fit now at least, more than I have in the past 2 years or more. Im down about 20 lbs and strength is the same if not a bit up. Trying to get leaner, but it is indeed hard. id like to do more time on the treadmill but my left knee hurts much of the time and if I do too much it really hurts bad. I need to buy a good stationary bike I think. Before covid I was using the bike at the gym. I exercise now only in the basement .

Good to see your doing well, ive been feeling stressed lately too, sometimes we forget to take care of ourselves and a break from the boards, social media, even the phone and news can help us relax. This may sound silly but ive found when I just need a mental break, getting a hotel room all by myself with a jacuzzi, just watching random sports and stupid movies. A whole day just to relax and get away did great for me mentally. Look forward to when you resume posting it's not the same without you.

hawkmoon · Sep 5, 2020

maldorf said:
Im ok. Was just taking a break from the board. Trying to relax more. Im a type A person, when I had a healthy heart it wasnt an issue but now with heart failure it can be deadly. Just a few days ago on Tuesday I got pissed off about something and my heart got stuck in A fib. That in turn messed up my ventricle rhythm as well. I had to go to the ER yet again and get defibrillated. I know the drill pretty well now! The nurses there are beginning to know me now. So 2 trips in about 30 days. Seems my cardiologist isnt recommending anything new because he didnt call me today or yesterday. Trying to avoid amioderone since that causes thyroid failure and fibrosis of the lungs. My doc doesnt want me on it if we can help it, and I agree. It would most probably not be a matter of if i had those issue but just when it would happen. I love that guy! All of the other cardiologists I run into want to put me on it right away, but they forget that Im an otherwise healthy 50 year old that exercises still.

Just finished lifting and doing the treadmill an hour ago and I feel ok now. Did exercise 3x now since my last ER visit and so far my heart is maintaining sinus rhythm. Most days now it feels like I am walking on a tight rope, hoping that I dont fall off (get an arrhythmia). I am looking more fit now at least, more than I have in the past 2 years or more. Im down about 20 lbs and strength is the same if not a bit up. Trying to get leaner, but it is indeed hard. id like to do more time on the treadmill but my left knee hurts much of the time and if I do too much it really hurts bad. I need to buy a good stationary bike I think. Before covid I was using the bike at the gym. I exercise now only in the basement .

Sorry to hear you had a scare due to unwanted stress. Take care of yourself!

kaleb · Sep 5, 2020

Good to see your ok. Been reading your posts for years, really enjoy them. Take care. Your almost like family now.

lm89 · Sep 14, 2020

Combined effects of growth hormone and testosterone replacement treatment in heart failure - PubMed

Our preliminary data suggest for the first time that combined replacement therapy with GH and T could be considered safe and therapeutic in HF patients with multiple hormone deficiencies, supporting the hypothesis that multiple hormone deficiencies syndrome can be considered as a novel and...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Here’s an interesting article that sheds some light on the importance of our hormones.

Not a frequent poster here but always reading. Just want to thank Maldorf and the others who shed light on the things that may go wrong with our hobby. You guys always push me to look for a “healthier” approach to this madness!

maximus88 · Sep 14, 2020

Has anybody else not done high rep squats since about 2008? It has contributed to/caused a few heart attacks

I've been doing sets of 5 or 8 since the original post

maldorf · Sep 14, 2020

maximus88 said:
Has anybody else not done high rep squats since about 2008? It has contributed to/caused a few heart attacks

I've been doing sets of 5 or 8 since the original post

I'm currently doing between 7 and 14 reps max. Any higher and I'm flirting with a bad arrhythmia. I feel better with lower reps. I also must stop well short of failure.

I think going to failure is one thing that can really bring on trouble for me. Most other exercises I'll got to failure on at least 2 sets out of 3. Squats, no way.

Squats almost killed me back in 08 2x. I still do them though because im lifting at home and they are such a productive exercise.

aris527 · Sep 14, 2020

I had a heart attack at 35 . I'm now 44 and still hitting iron. I wish you all the best.

maldorf · Sep 14, 2020

aris527 said:
I had a heart attack at 35 . I'm now 44 and still hitting iron. I wish you all the best.

Yeah, I was 38 and now I'm 50. Still doing it, but its becoming increasingly difficult. This arrythmia problem is a living hell.

aris527 · Sep 15, 2020

I didn't have any major problems after the incident. Doing blood tests and my yearly exams to my cardiologist and go with the results. My doctor is an athlete and this is what helped me. I didn't do any steroids or peds that time. I had 7 years to touch them. My life was really stressing that time. I had three kids , at the ages of 7-9, my second ex wife was struggling with depression and psychiatric illness, had 2 suicide attempts, my job was very demanding and I was smoking two packs a day. So I ended up at ER. Life gave me another chance and I grabbed it. Now I m still working out , still using small to moderate amount of steroids and try to enjoy every single moment. The worst thing is sometimes the mental issues I am having after the heart attack, the fear of death when I m alone and the 45 min battle I had alone before I reached an ER. When I feel one of the strange signs I had back then everything comes to my mind and having small panic attacks. That's a piece of my story.

maldorf · Sep 15, 2020

aris527 said:
I didn't have any major problems after the incident. Doing blood tests and my yearly exams to my cardiologist and go with the results. My doctor is an athlete and this is what helped me. I didn't do any steroids or peds that time. I had 7 years to touch them. My life was really stressing that time. I had three kids , at the ages of 7-9, my second ex wife was struggling with depression and psychiatric illness, had 2 suicide attempts, my job was very demanding and I was smoking two packs a day. So I ended up at ER. Life gave me another chance and I grabbed it. Now I m still working out , still using small to moderate amount of steroids and try to enjoy every single moment. The worst thing is sometimes the mental issues I am having after the heart attack, the fear of death when I m alone and the 45 min battle I had alone before I reached an ER. When I feel one of the strange signs I had back then everything comes to my mind and having small panic attacks. That's a piece of my story.

Glad youre ok. I have similar feelings as you. Id say I probably have PTSD. Some nights I'm still scared to go to sleep because I fear I may not wake up. Working out is scary because I remember the past when I went into arrhythmias. One time I nearly died and the other I had to go to the ER and get defibrillated. Had other episodes too.

The problem though is if I don't exercise then I start feeling even worse and my quality of life drops like a rock. I like to compare it to walking a tight rope. Lean too far in one direction and I fall.

aris527 · Sep 15, 2020

Maybe you have to reconsider the intensity or the type of training you do. Go by the feel. The best thing is that we survived. Now we have to adapt our life to the situation. You have to throw away all the things that make your life difficult and stressed. Even if that is your friends, family , everything. This is what my doc said to me after the incident. It was and it still is difficult cause you may hurt other people feelings but I don't want to come so close to death again. Keep this in your mind always.

maldorf · Sep 15, 2020

aris527 said:
Maybe you have to reconsider the intensity or the type of training you do. Go by the feel. The best thing is that we survived. Now we have to adapt our life to the situation. You have to throw away all the things that make your life difficult and stressed. Even if that is your friends, family , everything. This is what my doc said to me after the incident. It was and it still is difficult cause you may hurt other people feelings but I don't want to come so close to death again. Keep this in your mind always.

Good point about removing yourself from psychological stress. Its why I never considered going back into teaching. I also now speak my mind more and dont "hold my tongue". Its not good holding things in. Before my heart attack stress didnt seem to have any health consequences for me, but now that my heart is so weak it sure does.

With training, I have to keep down intensity and not go too close to failure on some movements. Like you say, go by feel. After 12 years it has become a way of life. Just in the last few months it has gotten worse. My heart seems to be having more problems keeping a regular sinus rhythm. I may have to increase my drug dose and last resort try the ventricular ablation again. That surgery is dangerous for me. Chance of death is about 5% or more for me.

aris527 · Sep 15, 2020

Bud, everything is going to be fine. You re a bad mf. You survived something that someone else will have died at the first 5 minutes. This mean a lot, that you have the will power to live and enjoy every last second. That you are a real fighter. As you have and I have understand that when you face death you are alone, no one else is there and you have done well so far. So go by feel and fight every thing you have in front of you. Doctor will tell you what is best for you and you will decide when the time comes. So many people have much more health problems. But there few that faced death. Keep doing whatever makes you happy and healthy. Talk with your doctor because it will be the only one who can help and understand you.
I m new here but that subject attracted all my attention when I saw it. Happy to talk and help with people that facing same problem as I do.
Respect bro.

Anabolic_Beast · Sep 15, 2020

maldorf said:
I'm currently doing between 7 and 14 reps max. Any higher and I'm flirting with a bad arrhythmia. I feel better with lower reps. I also must stop well short of failure.

I think going to failure is one thing that can really bring on trouble for me. Most other exercises I'll got to failure on at least 2 sets out of 3. Squats, no way.

Squats almost killed me back in 08 2x. I still do them though because im lifting at home and they are such a productive exercise.

Hey brother..thank you for sharing your personal experiences openly with all of us on this forum in this thread. For what its worth..you have helped me to be more cautious in everything that I do and take. I always remember your thread and I always remember to go through your thread to try and gain as much knowledge from you and to remind myself to stay humble and not overzealous in anything. You are helping a LOT of iron brothers (and sisters) in here and probably saving some lives without even knowing it.
As far as squats (specifically front squats) go..I never go above 7 perfect reps per working set. I prefer 5 reps. I find that if I go over that..my chest pounds so hard and I get serious palpitations and it even hurts to breathe after the workout and even the next couple of days off and on chest soreness. It's really not worth it to put the heart under tremendous pressure because then there may not be another day to fight the battle and nothing is worth putting us in a situation that will force us to be on the sidelines from doing what we love to do the most. We only get one heart and it's continuously working hard non stop day and night to keep us strong and healthy. Let's take care of this heart that we have to the best of our ability to be able tp keep doing what we love doing till the last day and to always be strong and healthy for others that need our help such as family!

maldorf · Sep 15, 2020

aris527 said:
Bud, everything is going to be fine. You re a bad mf. You survived something that someone else will have died at the first 5 minutes. This mean a lot, that you have the will power to live and enjoy every last second. That you are a real fighter. As you have and I have understand that when you face death you are alone, no one else is there and you have done well so far. So go by feel and fight every thing you have in front of you. Doctor will tell you what is best for you and you will decide when the time comes. So many people have much more health problems. But there few that faced death. Keep doing whatever makes you happy and healthy. Talk with your doctor because it will be the only one who can help and understand you.
I m new here but that subject attracted all my attention when I saw it. Happy to talk and help with people that facing same problem as I do.
Respect bro.

Thanks for the kind words. You are so right about facing death alone. Even though I have a family that loves me it still feels like I am all alone when the arrhythmias hit. Usually I am physically alone when it strikes, and that doesnt help any. I always get thoughts racing through my mind of my wife or kids finding me dead.

I am lucky that I have some good doctors. I like almost all of them well and they listen to me. My electro physiologist is especially great. He is the one that put in my original ICD and then the replacement. He has held back on prescribing me amioderone because he knows the high risks of thyroid gland failure and fibrosis of the lungs with that drug. Some doctors want to treat all of their heart patients the same, regardless of their age and life circumstances. He is different and realizes that I am still very physically active. A couple of my doctors are weenies that I put up with, but the others are better than I could ever imagine. I listen to them all, especially the ones that have gained my respect.

maldorf · Sep 15, 2020

Anabolic_Beast said:
Hey brother..thank you for sharing your personal experiences openly with all of us on this forum in this thread. For what its worth..you have helped me to be more cautious in everything that I do and take. I always remember your thread and I always remember to go through your thread to try and gain as much knowledge from you and to remind myself to stay humble and not overzealous in anything. You are helping a LOT of iron brothers (and sisters) in here and probably saving some lives without even knowing it.
As far as squats (specifically front squats) go..I never go above 7 perfect reps per working set. I prefer 5 reps. I find that if I go over that..my chest pounds so hard and I get serious palpitations and it even hurts to breathe after the workout and even the next couple of days off and on chest soreness. It's really not worth it to put the heart under tremendous pressure because then there may not be another day to fight the battle and nothing is worth putting us in a situation that will force us to be on the sidelines from doing what we love to do the most. We only get one heart and it's continuously working hard non stop day and night to keep us strong and healthy. Let's take care of this heart that we have to the best of our ability to be able tp keep doing what we love doing till the last day and to always be strong and healthy for others that need our help such as family!

I agree. I believe that the stress on the heart doing high rep squats isnt a good thing, not like the stress from doing cardio. I used to do sets up to 20 reps but stopped because of the problems it caused me. If you want to build a strong heart, do cardio. When you have heart failure like me and rhythm problems you even have to watch doing cardio. I have to keep my heart rate down under a certain rate. I think for me it is around 130 to 135 bpm. The large dose of betablocker I take helps with that. My resting rate is usually between 60 and 70 bpm.

There are guy on here sitting around with a resting rate of 90 bpm or so. I hope that they get that down under control. Certainly not a good sign IMO.

Anabolic_Beast · Sep 15, 2020

maldorf said:
I agree. I believe that the stress on the heart doing high rep squats isnt a good thing, not like the stress from doing cardio. I used to do sets up to 20 reps but stopped because of the problems it caused me. If you want to build a strong heart, do cardio. When you have heart failure like me and rhythm problems you even have to watch doing cardio. I have to keep my heart rate down under a certain rate. I think for me it is around 130 to 135 bpm. The large dose of betablocker I take helps with that. My resting rate is usually between 60 and 70 bpm.

There are guy on here sitting around with a resting rate of 90 bpm or so. I hope that they get that down under control. Certainly not a good sign IMO.

Yeah..the huge difference between overloading the heart with so much forced reps on the heavy squats (or deadlifts) or even just brutal intense lifting with high reps and drop sets and the feeling with brisk walking type cardio is night and day difference. Plus..don't forget all of the supplements and potential pre workout stimulants one takes before the workout (and nowadays who doesn't take some form or forms of stimulants before their workouts?)..and it doesn't play out well in the long (or short) run. Plus add the stress we go through between workouts..at our job..with our family..with the situation playing out in the world..and the anger we feel..it's a continuous non stop and hard assault on our cardiovascular system 24/7. Scary when one meditates on it and really thinks about what the body has to go through!

Im all for working out hard and heavy..but I always draw that fine line for myself (and strictly enforce it) and that fine line that I must never cross is..if I start feeling and experiencing fast heart palpitations (like the kind that you just literally feel your heart forcefully beating out of its chest)..then it means that I will stop and will rest as much as it takes to get everything under normal before resuming. I just started to take 5 mins rest between the heavier sets especially in the compound lifting days or exercises in which I gas out much quicker in such as front squats and find that I have so much more power in my lifts..my heart feels so much better..I can add more sets into my workout..instead of what I was doing in the past 20+ years..and going (wrongly) with the mentality that harder and brutal intensity is always better..I feel better with taking more time between sets..going for fewer reps..but always maintaining perfect and full range of motion and form..and still lifting super heavy..more like powerlifting style..its so much better for health...instead of just sitting in a chair for 5 mins between sets..do intense stretching and breathe deeply..its amazing for keeping the muscles warm and helps you to recover fast to get on with another hard and strict set..
It's threads like yours maldorf that made me start these things and observing how I feel more consciously through my workouts that made me change everything for the better.

maldorf · Sep 15, 2020

Anabolic_Beast said:
Yeah..the huge difference between overloading the heart with so much forced reps on the heavy squats (or deadlifts) or even just brutal intense lifting with high reps and drop sets and the feeling with brisk walking type cardio is night and day difference. Plus..don't forget all of the supplements and potential pre workout stimulants one takes before the workout (and nowadays who doesn't take some form or forms of stimulants before their workouts?)..and it doesn't play out well in the long (or short) run. Plus add the stress we go through between workouts..at our job..with our family..with the situation playing out in the world..and the anger we feel..it's a continuous non stop and hard assault on our cardiovascular system 24/7. Scary when one meditates on it and really thinks about what the body has to go through!

Im all for working out hard and heavy..but I always draw that fine line for myself (and strictly enforce it) and that fine line that I must never cross is..if I start feeling and experiencing fast heart palpitations (like the kind that you just literally feel your heart forcefully beating out of its chest)..then it means that I will stop and will rest as much as it takes to get everything under normal before resuming. I just started to take 5 mins rest between the heavier sets especially in the compound lifting days or exercises in which I gas out much quicker in such as front squats and find that I have so much more power in my lifts..my heart feels so much better..I can add more sets into my workout..instead of what I was doing in the past 20+ years..and going (wrongly) with the mentality that harder and brutal intensity is always better..I feel better with taking more time between sets..going for fewer reps..but always maintaining perfect and full range of motion and form..and still lifting super heavy..more like powerlifting style..its so much better for health...instead of just sitting in a chair for 5 mins between sets..do intense stretching and breathe deeply..its amazing for keeping the muscles warm and helps you to recover fast to get on with another hard and strict set..
It's threads like yours maldorf that made me start these things and observing how I feel more consciously through my workouts that made me change everything for the better.

Yes, longer rests between sets is what I have to do now. HR gets up during the set and then I have to give it time to recover and get back down. Breathing carefully through the set is important too. No breath holding.

Sounds like you are in a good place now.