Ketogenic diet?

[Fit2Serve]

The more posts I read from you, the more I realize you just don't get it.

ironviking just said it doesnt work from him and the danger would be having intense workouts w out carbs.
ok, now thats a converstaion starter
your comment sounded like coming from someone that doesnt know enough to even understand my question lol
ironviking gets it tho. so u move along to more simple subjects lol
-F

 

[Flex500]

I find this conversation intriguing. I am not usually full blown keto but I typically am below 100 grams of carbs a day most days and often below 60. The carbs end up being fruits as I usually will eat a big bowl of blueberries or other dark berries. I work well on lower calories and very low carbs. 75-125 a day for me feels perfect and as you noted with extra sodium I stay full. Add in some hgh (I naturally hold water on it) and even better.

I've never had a "crappy" feel on keto or low carbs whether it's day 1 or day 100.

 

[Fit2Serve]

sorry i got a lil testy lol
i am a fan of IFBB pro Brad Rowe (and Bboy) and i know Rowe does keto diet but havent heard him say exactly why he prefers it
i just love my carbs (mainly fruits)
i have always approached training and diet w logical stand point and just seems logical to include all macros in a diet.
especially in a thing like weightlifting where we are constantly burning up glycogen stores. couldnt imagine not replacing them
-F

 

[b-boy]

lol
i get FAR more than u can imagine. right now sounds like u dont get it or maybe u could explain why a keto diet?
you answer the question then.
why keto diet?
i been trained by milos sracev and phil hernon amongst others. i worked for milos for couple years met and spoke w every top olympic candidate from 2002-2004 they all had to come thru milos gym for photo shoot.
so i really would like to know why keto?
i can explain benefits of carbs in diet for bbing purposes. but not lack of them.
so always been curious why a bber would wanna do keto diet?
i tried it and hated it. did carbs w every meal and felt great and got peeled.

i also know bboy trained under phil hernons guidance for a bit and never did keto
so i am curious why he is choosing a keto diet now
thats hard to imagine for u? lil dense eh?
-F

Why not a keto diet ?why do I care what Jay or Ronnie diid? I'm 49 yrs old, I don't want to be open bodybuilding big, I would smoke Jay cutler in a 40 yard dash, I can more than likely fuck harder and longer than Jay, those are the things that are important to me NOW. I love fats, they taste amazing to me, I feel fucking amazing when I am in ketosis, I can train longer and harder on keto, I am stronger (mostly thanks to way less joint and knee pain), it's crazy how much my squats go up when I'm in ketosis.
So a boost in training performance, a boost in endurance, a sense of well being, heightened brain usage. Why in the fuck aren't you on keto? Why aren't you as big as me, why aren't you as lean as me?

Lol seriously the main reason is because I love fats, and in the absence of grains and other Cho is very healthy (my blood work always improves)
YOU DO YOU BOO, and I will continue on to be a 50+yr old SUPERHUMAN.

 

[b-boy]

sorry i got a lil testy lol
i am a fan of IFBB pro Brad Rowe (and Bboy) and i know Rowe does keto diet but havent heard him say exactly why he prefers it
i just love my carbs (mainly fruits)
i have always approached training and diet w logical stand point and just seems logical to include all macros in a diet.
especially in a thing like weightlifting where we are constantly burning up glycogen stores. couldnt imagine not replacing them
-F

Yes the glycogen thing, where do you live, I would like to travel and come train with you and film it, let's see what that glycogen is doing for you...in a fat adapted state your body becomes VERY efficient at storing glycogen and amino acids, my training endurance goes through the roof as I have to pull the breaks on myself so I don't overdo it in the gym most days. For me glycogen is nothing but a cosmetic look for me that I can have within 24 hours anytime I want.

And yes If I were to ever step onstage again i would definitely do a keto diet, even scooby prep had me keto part of my diet cause he seen how good my body thrives off fats.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I've honestly done both and ENJOY both for long periods of time. Probably for my first 5+ years or taking my lifting journey seriously i was keto-ish VLCD follower. And I get what b-boy is saying...for his life RIGHT NOW, what works for him? Keto. Simple as that. His body likes it, he likes it, it works for his lifestyle. Keep doing it.

I love fatty cuts of meat and all that comes with Keto. I enjoy it a lot. Hell, my wife and all my friends and family think i look best on keto. But as of right now, me trying to be the largest person in any room i walk into, keto doesn't work year round. I look lean and great, but I'm flat. And flat is completeeellly ok....for the average gym junkie, hell flat is great. But as of this moment in my life, i need to be filled up with glycogen only because my life is about growing. I DO know that once this BBing "get big or die trying" thing is over in the next 10 years. Ill drop to TRT and stay on keto for a looong time. I love it.

Also, i just want to chime in because i'd be willing to bet most guys (unless you've competed) BARELY recognize what flat and full likes like. I had no idea what it meant for the first 4-6 years of my hard lifting career. You only notice it when you swing the pendulum...and its 1000% noticeable. So all of my comments come from THE LOOK....not how much I ENJOY the eating part of it, because i do. I'm strictly talking about THE LOOK i get in keto vs higher carbs.

 

[11111]

Amen, Bboy. I've found that as long as I'm eating enough calories and keep water and sodium high, I don't really lose pumps in the gym or really even "flatten" out to much of a degree. Sure, the day after a re-feed day, I'm pumped to the max, swollen to all hell which is awesome, but the low carb diets have always worked for me for getting lean and even gaining muscle (provided calories are where they need to be).

Sure, if one wanted to be on the bullet training to growing as much muscle mass as fast as humanly possible, then, yea, a keto diet probably isn't the way to go, however, I think the average guy could gain a good deal more muscle than they probably think while eating a low carb diet, if all the other variables (enough calories, training, etc...) are dialed in.

The first real "diet" I ever did was Dan Duchaine's Body Opus, which is a cyclical ketogenic diet and it worked incredibly well. I actually gained muscle during the firs half of it until I was down into legit single digit bodyfat and calories had to drop lower. Have also used Lyle McDonald's ultimate diet, which worked damn well too.

And I'm with you, bboy on the bloodwork. My bloodwork always is the best when I've been following a strict low carb (I personally hate to use the word "keto" because to my knowledge, a "keto" diet is 70%+ coming from fat, and my sweet spot has always been 55-60% fat, 35-40% protein and 5% or less cho)

 

[11111]

I've honestly done both and ENJOY both for long periods of time. Probably for my first 5+ years or taking my lifting journey seriously i was keto-ish VLCD follower. And I get what b-boy is saying...for his life RIGHT NOW, what works for him? Keto. Simple as that. His body likes it, he likes it, it works for his lifestyle. Keep doing it.

I love fatty cuts of meat and all that comes with Keto. I enjoy it a lot. Hell, my wife and all my friends and family think i look best on keto. But as of right now, me trying to be the largest person in any room i walk into, keto doesn't work year round. I look lean and great, but I'm flat. And flat is completeeellly ok....for the average gym junkie, hell flat is great. But as of this moment in my life, i need to be filled up with glycogen only because my life is about growing. I DO know that once this BBing "get big or die trying" thing is over in the next 10 years. Ill drop to TRT and stay on keto for a looong time. I love it.

Also, i just want to chime in because i'd be willing to bet most guys (unless you've competed) BARELY recognize what flat and full likes like. I had no idea what it meant for the first 4-6 years of my hard lifting career. You only notice it when you swing the pendulum...and its 1000% noticeable. So all of my comments come from THE LOOK....not how much I ENJOY the eating part of it, because i do. I'm strictly talking about THE LOOK i get in keto vs higher carbs.

So damn true, great point.

 

[danieltx]

I always diet using keto and one of my favorite parts is when I get to about the last 3-4 weeks and start doing fat loads.

I usually do them on Wednesday and Friday. With my last protein meal I'll add anywhere from 3oz. to 10oz. nuts, usually cashews, and mix up a bowl of sunflower butter, PB2, and sugar free chocolate syrup.

I get a little energy boost the next day and it helps fill those intramuscular fat stores so I'm not quite as flat.

 

[11111]

I always diet using keto and one of my favorite parts is when I get to about the last 3-4 weeks and start doing fat loads.

I usually do them on Wednesday and Friday. With my last protein meal I'll add anywhere from 3oz. to 10oz. nuts, usually cashews, and mix up a bowl of sunflower butter, PB2, and sugar free chocolate syrup.

I get a little energy boost the next day and it helps fill those intramuscular fat stores so I'm not quite as flat.

the fat loads are interesting. during this time, how often are you having carb-up days daniel?

 

[b-boy]

Amen, Bboy. I've found that as long as I'm eating enough calories and keep water and sodium high, I don't really lose pumps in the gym or really even "flatten" out to much of a degree. Sure, the day after a re-feed day, I'm pumped to the max, swollen to all hell which is awesome, but the low carb diets have always worked for me for getting lean and even gaining muscle (provided calories are where they need to be).

Sure, if one wanted to be on the bullet training to growing as much muscle mass as fast as humanly possible, then, yea, a keto diet probably isn't the way to go, however, I think the average guy could gain a good deal more muscle than they probably think while eating a low carb diet, if all the other variables (enough calories, training, etc...) are dialed in.

The first real "diet" I ever did was Dan Duchaine's Body Opus, which is a cyclical ketogenic diet and it worked incredibly well. I actually gained muscle during the firs half of it until I was down into legit single digit bodyfat and calories had to drop lower. Have also used Lyle McDonald's ultimate diet, which worked damn well too.

And I'm with you, bboy on the bloodwork. My bloodwork always is the best when I've been following a strict low carb (I personally hate to use the word "keto" because to my knowledge, a "keto" diet is 70%+ coming from fat, and my sweet spot has always been 55-60% fat, 35-40% protein and 5% or less cho)

Excellent post ^^^

 

[danieltx]

the fat loads are interesting. during this time, how often are you having carb-up days daniel?

Every Saturday and Sunday like I always do. The fat loads become essential because my metabolism gets out of control towards the end of diets and I can lose 1-2lbs. from the time I wake up until dinner.

 

[Cerberus777]

I personally love Keto. Gains seem slower since I'm not holding water. But strength and as you said endurance goes up. I mountain bike and never crash like some do from lack of carbs. I can eat steak eggs and Avocado and never get sick of it.

 

[88shots]

Good questions!
I felt it took me about 2 months to become fat adapted, maybe because I had tried keto here and there before. The cool thing about becoming fat adapted is that it makes transitioning back into keto after going off a freaking breeze, my goal was to always become metabolically efficient where I can switch fuel sources very easily and I'm at that point which makes me comfortable no matter what diet I run, I switch very easily and quickly.

The sleep thing...LOL yes at first it happened to me also, I would wake several times per night, oddly it's like that also prepping for a show when you really start getting lean (striated glutes), maybe it from the ramp in metabolism and increased fat burning and like you said cortisol. Dieting and rapid fat loss is a catabolic situation and maybe it's a survival technique telling you to get up and search for food?

What are your macro percentages? With the amount of muscle you hold you can get away with eating more carbs than most while still staying in ketosis?

 

[USMuscle9403]

I find this conversation intriguing. I am not usually full blown keto but I typically am below 100 grams of carbs a day most days and often below 60. The carbs end up being fruits as I usually will eat a big bowl of blueberries or other dark berries. I work well on lower calories and very low carbs. 75-125 a day for me feels perfect and as you noted with extra sodium I stay full. Add in some hgh (I naturally hold water on it) and even better.

I've never had a "crappy" feel on keto or low carbs whether it's day 1 or day 100.

Same, not quite keto, but typically maxing 100-150g a day. I still get many of the benefits of keto, the mental clarity, fat adaptation, etc. And of course, it's easy to stay dry and lean on low carbs. Hard to look bad when you don't hold any water. Any more carbs than that daily, though, and I'm fuckin famished all the time and constantly feel like I need carbs. There's a thin line with me. Only direct sources of carbs for me are typically fruit and whatever is in dairy products like cottage cheese, if you wanna count that

Easy as hell to stick to, not many cravings, awesome, steady energy levels and mental clarity (despite my posts on here). If i want to gain, I start adding in carbs here and there, usually post workout

 

[b-boy]

What are your macro percentages? With the amount of muscle you hold you can get away with eating more carbs than most while still staying in ketosis?

40/55/5 P/F/C

 

[Biggerp73]

I rotate either low carb or low fat depending on the day and what my taste buds want to eat

But I always try to do either one or the other

Very rarely (holidays, etc) will I do both carbs and fats

Of course on low carb days I still get some carbs from things like different types of sauce, maybe some breading on a fried food, and fruits and veggies

 

[Dugbet]

Damn, why do people love carbs? Sure, they're cool and addictive, like coke, but I curse the day I quit my cutting diet, ate a lot of junk food, and didn't immediately in a reverse diet with good amounts of fat. It's been over 5 weeks and I'm not able to get back into my lane, eating shit every day, why would anyone love to be hungry? I like to control my body and not for my body to control me, and that is only possible if you do keto.

 

[OuchThatHurts]

I rotate either low carb or low fat depending on the day and what my taste buds want to eat

But I always try to do either one or the other

Very rarely (holidays, etc) will I do both carbs and fats

Of course on low carb days I still get some carbs from things like different types of sauce, maybe some breading on a fried food, and fruits and veggies

I am the exact same way. I carb deplete until I'm almost hypo, then I refeed. Protein is always paramount nutritionally:

protein and fats
-or-
protein and carbs

I habitually don't mix carbs and fats simultaneously. If I do, it's intentionally to replenish glycogen stores and then it's right back to protein and fats and carb depletion.

There's some evidence that says that you can't lose fat and gain muscle mass at the same time. I disagree. Muscle itself will burn fat bc other than the human brain, skeletal muscle requires the most constant nutrition of anything in the body.

But there is no losing fat eating 3000 calories of carbs every day. I just don't see it. Not for me. I'll just get fat. I designed my meal system I call Cro-Magnon Diet. It's as simple as this: if you couldn't find it 10,000 years ago, you shouldn't be eating it. If you couldn't spear it, pick it off a tree, pull it out of the ground, etc

I can copy and paste this right from my log:

***CRO-MAGNON DIET***

Proteins: Red Meat, Poultry, Pork, Fish, Seafood, Whole Eggs, Fungi

Fats: Animal Fats, Olive Oil, Coconut Oil, Fish/Krill Oil, Real Butter

Carbs/Misc: Wild/Brown Rice, Whole Grains, Potatoes, Yams, Beets, Turnips, Legumes, Green Vegetables, Nuts, Fruits, Honey


That's it. Spice it up tasty and eat 8 meals/day, small meals, every 2 hours

 

[USMuscle9403]

I am the exact same way. I carb deplete until I'm almost hypo, then I refeed. Protein is always paramount nutritionally:

protein and fats
-or-
protein and carbs

I habitually don't mix carbs and fats simultaneously. If I do, it's intentionally to replenish glycogen stores and then it's right back to protein and fats and carb depletion.

There's some evidence that says that you can't lose fat and gain muscle mass at the same time. I disagree. Muscle itself will burn fat bc other than the human brain, skeletal muscle requires the most constant nutrition of anything in the body.

But there is no losing fat eating 3000 calories of carbs every day. I just don't see it. Not for me. I'll just get fat. I designed my meal system I call Cro-Magnon Diet. It's as simple as this: if you couldn't find it 10,000 years ago, you shouldn't be eating it. If you couldn't spear it, pick it off a tree, pull it out of the ground, etc

I can copy and paste this right from my log:

***CRO-MAGNON DIET***

Proteins: Red Meat, Poultry, Pork, Fish, Seafood, Whole Eggs, Fungi

Fats: Animal Fats, Olive Oil, Coconut Oil, Fish/Krill Oil, Real Butter

Carbs/Misc: Wild/Brown Rice, Whole Grains, Potatoes, Yams, Beets, Turnips, Legumes, Green Vegetables, Nuts, Fruits, Honey

Fats: Animal Fats, Olive Oil, Coconut Oil, Fish/Krill Oil, Real Butter

That's it. Spice it up tasty and eat 8 meals/day, small meals, every 2 hours

What's your opinion of things like cottage cheese and Greek Yogurt, a bit too processed?