Knee Injury

[muscle96ss]

Swellings not bad. Just a little bit compared to the other knee.

Still very tight and I haven't tried to force bend it. I can bend it up to 90 degrees or so. Doc says body is guarding the knee a lot right now, doesnt like movement.

Trained upper body today and did some unilateral leg work (other leg). Used mostly machines so was okay thankfully.

There's a good chance if its MCL that you won't need surgery; ACL most likely would unless you are older, but really hoping that a chunk of the meniscus didn't tear off and is caught in the joint causing the flexion issue. In that case they are definitely going in, but its not that bad of a rehab. My wife is actually going through it now; she tried to ride my 15 y/o sons motor bike and tore her ACL and meniscus when she hit the curb and fell off(thank god the kids got my brain).

 

[Alzadosghost]

Damn, sorry to hear.

What did you do for the first knee? Surgery and then rehab? How long before you could return back to normal activity?

the first one full acl and mcl rupture was 13 yrs ago. Acl repaired with autograf mcl healed on its own. Lots of rehab and 9 months later I had my helmet back on playing at 100%. The other knee lcl was an open surgery a bit more complicated and it was around 17-18 months until was fully recovered. But I regained everything. I have a good surgeon. He also did my shoulder and my bicep. All 100% afterward.

 

[thethinker48]

Did rehab yesterday, was able to straighten the leg completely yesterday, and did some lying straight leg raises yesterday. Tightness and some swelling still around the knee, bending is still limited to 90 degrees.

I feel my lateral meniscus burning a tiny bit after activity.

Anybody try using bpc 157 and/or tb 500 with an injury like this? I can't imagine the angiogenic effects of bpc being bad even if it is torn. Worst case, If the ligament is torn, it'll just aid in supplying blood flow and growth factors to the damaged area reducing inflammation. Unless the accelerated healing can deform the tissue further? (I don't think BPC has that profound of an effect).

Thoughts from any experienced folks on this? I'm currently using 4 ius of GH ED.

 

[A50#]

I rolled my ankle last year really bad and within a week I started noticing some swelling and pain in my right knee. I have never had any knees issues in my life. I let it go and just suffered with it for months trying to rehab it myself in hopes of it getting better. About a month ago I found one of the best Ortho doctors in the country and after an MRI found I have a completely torn meniscus. He said I could try rehab for awhile and see what happens but said ultimately I would be back for the surgery. The pain isn't real bad I have felt worse but the swelling is constant and keeps my knee from bending and functioning correctly. Just last week I strained my other knee by simply walking. I'm overcompensating because I cant apply full pressure on the injured knee. I have been trying to hold off but at this point feel surgery may be inevitable.

 

[Big Beef]

Did rehab yesterday, was able to straighten the leg completely yesterday, and did some lying straight leg raises yesterday. Tightness and some swelling still around the knee, bending is still limited to 90 degrees.

I feel my lateral meniscus burning a tiny bit after activity.

Anybody try using bpc 157 and/or tb 500 with an injury like this? I can't imagine the angiogenic effects of bpc being bad even if it is torn. Worst case, If the ligament is torn, it'll just aid in supplying blood flow and growth factors to the damaged area reducing inflammation. Unless the accelerated healing can deform the tissue further? (I don't think BPC has that profound of an effect).

Thoughts from any experienced folks on this? I'm currently using 4 ius of GH ED.

I have never used it for a knee injury, but I am currently taking it for a shoulder injury. Had 2 shoulder surgeries for 1 shoulder & need an mri on the other shoulder, but waiting to see how this bpc-157 does first with the pain. The other shoulder was a badly torn labrum & I think if it is the same injury in the other shoulder, it probably won't work, but I'm still being optimistic. I do think it is great for minor injuries & muscle tears though. Running it with tb-500 atm. Actually, made a thread in the peptide section about it.

 

[lookslikesausage]

Did rehab yesterday, was able to straighten the leg completely yesterday, and did some lying straight leg raises yesterday. Tightness and some swelling still around the knee, bending is still limited to 90 degrees.

I feel my lateral meniscus burning a tiny bit after activity.

Anybody try using bpc 157 and/or tb 500 with an injury like this? I can't imagine the angiogenic effects of bpc being bad even if it is torn. Worst case, If the ligament is torn, it'll just aid in supplying blood flow and growth factors to the damaged area reducing inflammation. Unless the accelerated healing can deform the tissue further? (I don't think BPC has that profound of an effect).

Thoughts from any experienced folks on this? I'm currently using 4 ius of GH ED.

i use it. I was using bpc/tb combo. then went to just bpc. now on the combo again. my knee is like 80% now, but i can't tell if it's from time or the peptides. my injury was six months ago, which sounds like the time a lot of these injuries take to heal if not a complete tear. Like you said, it can't hurt if money isn't an issue.

 

[Bleed]

Immediately after surgery i used 4iu a day of rips. This was 2014. I can tell you it definitely helped recovery.

I just started using tb 500 in both knees for patellar tendonitis (tendonosis) at 5 mg the first 3 weeks. Tomorrow starts my 3rd week. The tendons definitely are healing faster than just using the floss and stretching. Now i cant say my leg has felt significantly weaker than the one that i didnt have surgery on but when i do one legged leg press i notice it. Since my tendonitis issue i havent done leg press so probably a couple months. But with how fast my tendons are healing im wondering if that knee will feel more stable on a one legged leg press after the full 7 or 8 weeks due to the injection site location. Ill get back here if someone bumps this thread.

Gh will definitely help you. My pt noticed how quickly i was progressing. I credit that to the gh.

Did rehab yesterday, was able to straighten the leg completely yesterday, and did some lying straight leg raises yesterday. Tightness and some swelling still around the knee, bending is still limited to 90 degrees.

I feel my lateral meniscus burning a tiny bit after activity.

Anybody try using bpc 157 and/or tb 500 with an injury like this? I can't imagine the angiogenic effects of bpc being bad even if it is torn. Worst case, If the ligament is torn, it'll just aid in supplying blood flow and growth factors to the damaged area reducing inflammation. Unless the accelerated healing can deform the tissue further? (I don't think BPC has that profound of an effect).

Thoughts from any experienced folks on this? I'm currently using 4 ius of GH ED.

 

[thethinker48]

A little update:

I've been rehabbing the knee pretty consistently, ROM is much better, I can straighten the leg (although I feel some crepitus, and ligament movement behind the knee). Bending is about 90 degrees with comfort, but with a little less tightness. I can walk normally, and even climb stairs slowly

I'm pretty sure my meniscus and MCL are torn. I tripped on something yesterday, and my knee semi-buckled with some intense pain yesterday, got some extra swelling in the inner anterior portion of the knee. I really wanted an MRI but who knows when I can get one with all this stuff going on, my state's in complete shutdown

I ordered some BPC, hoping it'll help with healing. For anybody that used it for injuries, is it necessary to inject near the injury sight or is the effect systemic? I can do sub q near the knee. Not brave enough to do intra articular injection without ultrasound imaging lol

 

[Viking55]

Aloha thinker,

It's been awhile...

Look into MAT-Muscle Activation Technique. Developed by Greg Reskopf CSCS. Former strength coach for Fresno State in the 90's. Long nd short of it is- when an injury occurs surrounding muscles and attachments are affected due to the increased compensation demands and elevated work load. Of the over 625-635 different muscles in the body there is much more going on with an injury, the recovery, healing and returning to a high level of optimal function.

One example is the walking gait pattern will be altered as well as the strike pattern of the feet. Check out AIM-Anatomy in Motion-Gary Ward-out of Britain. He has a 3 hour video program that addresses the bottom of the kinetic chain-the feet-all the way up. Amazing work!

Having been around the PT world for over 3 decades, I have and still do, find significant limitations in it's scope of sustainable and optimal rehabilitation and true healing for all the parts that break down with an injury.

Any further questions give me a shout. I do a lot of comprehensive rehab..

Had to re-register with a different handle. K1 is working on getting me squared away.

V

 

[lookslikesausage]

A little update:

I've been rehabbing the knee pretty consistently, ROM is much better, I can straighten the leg (although I feel some crepitus, and ligament movement behind the knee). Bending is about 90 degrees with comfort, but with a little less tightness. I can walk normally, and even climb stairs slowly

I'm pretty sure my meniscus and MCL are torn. I tripped on something yesterday, and my knee semi-buckled with some intense pain yesterday, got some extra swelling in the inner anterior portion of the knee. I really wanted an MRI but who knows when I can get one with all this stuff going on, my state's in complete shutdown

I ordered some BPC, hoping it'll help with healing. For anybody that used it for injuries, is it necessary to inject near the injury sight or is the effect systemic? I can do sub q near the knee. Not brave enough to do intra articular injection without ultrasound imaging lol

i was in the same boat. was going sub-directly above the patellar tendon. finally got the nuts to go as close to the lcl as possible (not into the actual ligament though). in the end i don't think it mattered. i think what mattered more was time. i think it helped but i can't say to what degree. i'd say try both. A pretty well-known pharmacy out of KY says in their catalog to take it sub-q and they don't say in their catalog that you must inject into or even near the injury. I believe they mention it but it's not a must according to them IIRC.

 

[thethinker48]

So I got an MRI today.

Radiology report comes tomorrow; I think I have a medial (I was hoping lateral, maybe I'm wrong) meniscus tear as well as a tear in my MCL.

If anyone is familiar with MRIs and knows how to read them, I'd appreciate your thoughts on this. I have a full disc of images I can upload.

 

[thethinker48]

 

[TrippplePPP]

Put up a couple sagitals views. Try and get views of the midline medial and also lateral femoral condyle where the meniscus looks like triangles between the bones. Also see if you could get the ACL view on the sagitals to show the ACL and then PCL.

In that last pic the ACL looks intact but I'm not sure if that lighter signal on it represents any small tearing.

 

[thethinker48]

Got the radiology report.

Knees destroyed

Acl rupture

Grade 2 sprain of MCL

Complex tear of lateral meniscus

LCL sprain

Surgery is indefinite; going to get a surgeon consult soon to see when and what to do.

Question becomes what kind of activity I can do in the mean time. And whether to discontinue GH use in case of abnormal healing or scarring occurring from it. I was going to use BPC for healing, but I doubt that’s a good idea due to abnormal healing.

I can walk (altered gait though, and , starting to straighten leg out fully with rehab, knee bends a little past 90 degrees but ROM is getting better).

Would appreciate any thoughts on this.

 

[thethinker48]

Put up a couple sagitals views. Try and get views of the midline medial and also lateral femoral condyle where the meniscus looks like triangles between the bones. Also see if you could get the ACL view on the sagitals to show the ACL and then PCL.

In that last pic the ACL looks intact but I'm not sure if that lighter signal on it represents any small tearing.

I’ll find them and post them as well. Thank u

 

[thethinker48]

Some Notes from the report:

- Rupture of the mid-substance of the anterior cruciate ligament.

- Attenuation, increased signal involving femoral attachment of medial collateral ligament, compatible with grade 2 sprain/partial tear.

- LCL complex shows attenuated fibular collateral ligament compatible with grade 2 sprain/partial tear; Grade 1, mild injury of the remainder of the complex.

- Lateral meniscus shows complex tearing, mild lateral extrusion. PD sagittal fat sat image 7-12 multifocal tearing is seen. This includes undersurface tearing/defect at junction of anterior horn and anterior body. Radial tearing of the body. Vertical longitudinal femoral space tearing of posterior horn. (This can be a bucket handle tear I think?)

- Patchy moderate chondromalacia of anterior weight bearing lateral femoral condyle, overlying the bone contusion.

 

[Kaladryn]

Find a good surgeon. I'd use a cadaver ligament to replace yours, it will be replaced with your own cells in about a year. Be smart with rehab, find a good PT to work with and use them for a long as you possibly can.

Also, find a way to turn the injury into a positive force in your life, motivation for something that will turn the negative into a positive.

 

[thethinker48]

Find a good surgeon. I'd use a cadaver ligament to replace yours, it will be replaced with your own cells in about a year. Be smart with rehab, find a good PT to work with and use them for a long as you possibly can.

Also, find a way to turn the injury into a positive force in your life, motivation for something that will turn the negative into a positive.

Appreciate the advice and words!

Waiting on the surgeon consult to see what he thinks. I might delay the surgery for summer if feasible. Not doing any explosive activity, can walk, do most basic things, and rehabbing well right now. Who knows how long this virus thing plays out till (probably months it looks like), so a good time to prevent overuse.

 

[thethinker48]

Saw an orthopedic surgeon today; guys worked with pro athletes so very knowledgeable with sports related injuries.

Lateral meniscus is completely torn, and acl is gone (full rupture). Says good leg musculature is a good reason I'm able to pretty much do everything normally, avoid any explosive pivoting movement, and get it repaired whenever you want: with the risk of further damage to the meniscus making it non-repairable, and some cartilage damage if pushed. Doc said get it repaired whenever convenient, just be careful with activities. Cartilage is perfect right now due to age, but constant buckling events will cause damage.

I don't think I'll have the meniscus repaired, the doc recommended it with acl reconstruction, but I know I'll re-tear it again, so just get it clipped and hope stem cell technology is good in a few decades. At 24 years old, he thinks it's better to repair to preserve cartilage, but he re-tore his after repairing, and I know the stats on meniscus retears after repairing it, and I know myself. Need to do more research on this, and maybe get extra opinions; but a decision for the future.

I'll probably have surgery later in the year or next year, going to rehab like he'll see what I can and can't do. Leg flexion is about 75% and extension is 100%. Knees swollen, but movement is much better, and feel much better.

Leg training is going to be interesting once gym reopens (hopefully sooner than later), light leg presses and squats for a while, maybe add bands and do drop sets and supersets. My legs respond better to very painful high rep sets anyway. If this pandemic dies down a little in 4-5 weeks, I'll return to BJJ and light drilling; but it seems like we'll be stuck in our homes for a while.

Hope everyone out there is doing well and safe!

 

[muscle96ss]

Saw an orthopedic surgeon today; guys worked with pro athletes so very knowledgeable with sports related injuries.

Lateral meniscus is completely torn, and acl is gone (full rupture). Says good leg musculature is a good reason I'm able to pretty much do everything normally, avoid any explosive pivoting movement, and get it repaired whenever you want: with the risk of further damage to the meniscus making it non-repairable, and some cartilage damage if pushed. Doc said get it repaired whenever convenient, just be careful with activities. Cartilage is perfect right now due to age, but constant buckling events will cause damage.

I don't think I'll have the meniscus repaired, the doc recommended it with acl reconstruction, but I know I'll re-tear it again, so just get it clipped and hope stem cell technology is good in a few decades. At 24 years old, he thinks it's better to repair to preserve cartilage, but he re-tore his after repairing, and I know the stats on meniscus retears after repairing it, and I know myself. Need to do more research on this, and maybe get extra opinions; but a decision for the future.

I'll probably have surgery later in the year or next year, going to rehab like he'll see what I can and can't do. Leg flexion is about 75% and extension is 100%. Knees swollen, but movement is much better, and feel much better.

Leg training is going to be interesting once gym reopens (hopefully sooner than later), light leg presses and squats for a while, maybe add bands and do drop sets and supersets. My legs respond better to very painful high rep sets anyway. If this pandemic dies down a little in 4-5 weeks, I'll return to BJJ and light drilling; but it seems like we'll be stuck in our homes for a while.

Hope everyone out there is doing well and safe!

Whats your age? Do you do anything competitive still?