Knee Pain

juicyjay · May 11, 2011

Anyone else have arthritis in their knees? My right one is considerably worse than my left, and ever since i've went back to DC training, they have been progressively getting worse. Last time I did BB squats, it literally felt like my right knee cap was going to protrude through my skin. I already wear wraps btw, and I used to do 3 drop sets of 15-20 reps for quads, and that was going well in the pain department, but only OK in the strength department. I recently(4 weeks ago) switched back to DC training and i'm gaining strength much faster than before, but due to the heavier weight and lower reps, my knees are getting worse than ever before. Does anyone have any suggestions for what would help alleviate the pain? My trainer suggests taking a full month off from training quads and applying ice daily. I really don't want to stop training quads if there's another option though...

Juiceboy44 · May 11, 2011

If it hurts and feels like its going to pop I wouldnt push it further.
Its not worth getting injured and pushing your knees to the max.
I'd suggest going a little lighter and more comfortable or switch to hack squats or leg press instead of regural squats.
See if glucosamine helps.

juicyjay · May 11, 2011

Juiceboy44 said:
If it hurts and feels like its going to pop I wouldnt push it further.
Its not worth getting injured and pushing your knees to the max.
I'd suggest going a little lighter and more comfortable or switch to hack squats or leg press instead of regural squats.
See if glucosamine helps.

I've tried glucosamine and chondrointon a few different times and it never did anything for me. I currently rotate BB squats, hack squats, and leg presses because that is how DC training works. 3 different exercises per body part, and you do BB squats one leg day, leg press next leg day, etc. Tonight was supposed to be heavy hack squats, but as soon as I warmed up and got up to 3 plates per side, my 2nd warm up set, my knees said no way. So I dropped it down to just 1 plate per side and repped it out a shit load of times and got a painful pump. I did that for 3 sets and called it good. Not sure how effective this type of training will be for quad development. I'm a mere middleweight in the NPC and want to be a light heavy at my next show, and my quad sweep needs to be brought up more. SO i really don't want to stop training them for a month, but at the same time, I want to be able to walk when I get older lol. Thank you for the reply btw. I'm not new to the board, but I don't post much, mainly just read and research.

AnabolicAnimal667 · May 11, 2011

I would discontinue doing exercises and training philosophies that aggravate your knees and try to figure out other exercises and work outs that you are able to do with out the pain. The other thing that I would do is to start a stretching as well as foam rolling routine for your quads as well as your IT band. Really it is all about trial and error and what works for others is not working for you so give other stuff a try.

arnesto · May 11, 2011

Diclofenac really helps with knee arthritis. Also see if you can get lidoderm topical patches to put on your knees when you go to bed at night. they do wonders. And of course lay off on the weight some for a bit. Hacks bother my knees so do lunges. I just do lighter squats until i feel better. nothing else. BTW if you decide to go to the doctor about getting those prescriptions most will say to stop lifting period and we never want to hear that.

shefler29 · May 11, 2011

Diclofenac gel has relieved pain for me but it doesn't last to long. Joint Force from E-pharm works pretty well too.

quinntheartist · May 12, 2011

i have a similar problem with my knees...i haven't got the nerve yet but i have read that intra articular injections of gh have proven results in increasing synovial fluid and cartilage growth...needles in my knees...yikes

juicyjay · May 12, 2011

arnesto said:
Diclofenac really helps with knee arthritis. Also see if you can get lidoderm topical patches to put on your knees when you go to bed at night. they do wonders. And of course lay off on the weight some for a bit. Hacks bother my knees so do lunges. I just do lighter squats until i feel better. nothing else. BTW if you decide to go to the doctor about getting those prescriptions most will say to stop lifting period and we never want to hear that.

I was prescribed Zipsor, which is a "special" form of diclofenac, but it runs about $300/mo and I don't have insurance due to getting a new job recently. I have samples though, so I will try that. My fear is further damaging the joints though. Sure something may alleviate the pain, but the joints are still getting taxed with the heavier weight. I did 3 sets of hack squats yesterday with just 1 plate per side until i got an insane pump in my quads, and that went very well, but I am not sure if that is enough of a work load to stimulate growth. Does anyone have any input on that? Oh, and i've used lidoderm patches as well, but they didn't really do much. They did help, but the pain was still quite apparent.

juicyjay · May 12, 2011

quinntheartist said:
i have a similar problem with my knees...i haven't got the nerve yet but i have read that intra articular injections of gh have proven results in increasing synovial fluid and cartilage growth...needles in my knees...yikes

I agree...screw that lol

juicyjay · May 12, 2011

AnabolicAnimal667 said:
I would discontinue doing exercises and training philosophies that aggravate your knees and try to figure out other exercises and work outs that you are able to do with out the pain. The other thing that I would do is to start a stretching as well as foam rolling routine for your quads as well as your IT band. Really it is all about trial and error and what works for others is not working for you so give other stuff a try.

I will look into higher volume training programs and lighter weight and se what I can find. Maybe fst-7 for quads? I already do fascia stretching, but no foam rolling. I will check that out as well. Thanks

DOGGCRAPP · May 12, 2011

a) before leaving to gym get 16% menthol and put this on your knees (flexall, etc)
b) put a pair of long sweats on and put another pair on over them
c) also check to see if your IT bands might be incredibly tight and pulling near your kneecaps....make sure thats not the case or your knee problems are IT band problems truly....= ART, = stretching = foam roller

d) raise your rep ranges on legs up to 10-15
e) before any any any quad training do 2 sets of high rep leg presses deep for 20-30 reps each....one with 90-135 on each side and one with 135-180 on each side
f) make sure you are doing proper warmups if you arent allready

hypothetically squats with progressively heavier weights

1) 15 rep set
2) 12 rep set
3) 12 rep set
4) 12 rep set
5) 15 rep set = work set
6) 10 rep set = work set
7) widowmaker on the leg press after one warmup (because of your knees)

quinntheartist · May 12, 2011

i am seriously considering doing the intra articular gh injections...there are quite a few successful studies on pubmed...maybe i will do a log and post my results...years of ruckmarching in some hell hole, ultramarathons and bodybuilding sure have done a number on my knees...it would be nice to see it fix it.

i have recently tried polysulfated glycosaminoglycan's and they work...but seem to be like deca...it just increases synovial fluids and not actually repair damage...the same goes with hyaluronic acid too. it is worth a look. you can't grow if your joints don't work so take care of them or fix'em. i would rather a needle in the knee over invasive surgery.

Ashop · May 12, 2011

juicyjay said:
Anyone else have arthritis in their knees? My right one is considerably worse than my left, and ever since i've went back to DC training, they have been progressively getting worse. Last time I did BB squats, it literally felt like my right knee cap was going to protrude through my skin. I already wear wraps btw, and I used to do 3 drop sets of 15-20 reps for quads, and that was going well in the pain department, but only OK in the strength department. I recently(4 weeks ago) switched back to DC training and i'm gaining strength much faster than before, but due to the heavier weight and lower reps, my knees are getting worse than ever before. Does anyone have any suggestions for what would help alleviate the pain? My trainer suggests taking a full month off from training quads and applying ice daily. I really don't want to stop training quads if there's another option though...

I would lighten up the work load on your legs,,,back off the weight.

triathloncoach · May 12, 2011

I'm gonna cut and paste Doggcraps advice. Great stuff, thank you for sharing, my fellow Georgian.

And this is a druggie solution, but 125 of dec minimizes my 47 year old joint problems.

juicyjay · May 12, 2011

DOGGCRAPP said:
a) before leaving to gym get 16% menthol and put this on your knees (flexall, etc)
b) put a pair of long sweats on and put another pair on over them
c) also check to see if your IT bands might be incredibly tight and pulling near your kneecaps....make sure thats not the case or your knee problems are IT band problems truly....= ART, = stretching = foam roller

d) raise your rep ranges on legs up to 10-15
e) before any any any quad training do 2 sets of high rep leg presses deep for 20-30 reps each....one with 90-135 on each side and one with 135-180 on each side
f) make sure you are doing proper warmups if you arent allready

hypothetically squats with progressively heavier weights

1) 15 rep set
2) 12 rep set
3) 12 rep set
4) 12 rep set
5) 15 rep set = work set
6) 10 rep set = work set
7) widowmaker on the leg press after one warmup (because of your knees)

I thought that it was bad to go so deep that your knees goes past your shins? How do I tell if my IT bands are too tight? Not to sound stupid or anything, but I don't even know what your IT bands are lol. My orthopedic doctor just told me that I have arthritis, nobody has mentioned IT bands. If that is the cause of the pain, then that would be easier to fix. The pain runs right down the middle of my knee caps though, the actual bone. I only do 2 warm up sets, so that probably isn't helping. I will start doing more warm ups as well, and get some flexall.

juicyjay · May 12, 2011

quinntheartist said:
i am seriously considering doing the intra articular gh injections...there are quite a few successful studies on pubmed...maybe i will do a log and post my results...years of ruckmarching in some hell hole, ultramarathons and bodybuilding sure have done a number on my knees...it would be nice to see it fix it.

i have recently tried polysulfated glycosaminoglycan's and they work...but seem to be like deca...it just increases synovial fluids and not actually repair damage...the same goes with hyaluronic acid too. it is worth a look. you can't grow if your joints don't work so take care of them or fix'em. i would rather a needle in the knee over invasive surgery.

What are these?

Borussa · May 12, 2011

There is allot of sound advice here. If it were me I would start off with a topical ointment and wrap to keep the knee warm. Then some ibuprofen (800mg) for inflammation. When you get to the gym stretch then maybe ride a bike for a while, slow,to get some blood to the knee. keep your reps 12-15 and cut back on the weight. Good luck!