Kurt havens: expert educator or expert bullshitter

[traininsane11]

13:00 onwards

Just sharing this as Kurt’s theories have been kicked about on here a fair bit and seem to have a divide on people who believe him and those that don’t

I think he’s able to sell almost any claim he makes because he’s very well spoken, obviously very intelligent and speaks with such authority

My question is why would someone of such a seemingly high level of intelligence not just firstly learn and then speak the facts of bodybuilding with that level of intelligence, platform and then knowledge he could clean up in regards to coaching.

He claims to already be at max capacity with clients and consults etc which may be true but surely short lived if he’s just a fraud…a smart fraud but fraud nonetheless

Ironically links into the ongoing discussions me and @TheOtherOne55 have in regards to it being hard to find genuine info and there’s something to be said for having been there and done it yourself

Credit to @BigJP23 for the video

 

[rhinozt47]

Look at his contest pics on the NPC site and ask yourself if you’d listen to anything that guy said about anything.

 

[BigJP23]

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Guess who Guy’s talking about

 

[specter]

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Guess who Guy’s talking about

Well since Kurt still is coaching not him, he says in the video if you still coach i will put your name out..

 

[traininsane11]

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Guess who Guy’s talking about

Just about 1g tren to much casual error

 

[BigJP23]

Well since Kurt still is coaching not him, he says in the video if you still coach i will put your name out..

Idk what you’re trying to say here, but Guy has confirmed numerous times he was talking about Kurt here. The competitor doing this cycle was one of the two guys from Jersey that I mentioned. Both of which left Kurt and are now currently coached by Guy.

 

[IFBBProDomCardone]

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Guess who Guy’s talking about

Well at least there was no winny, halo or anavar

 

[stackdizzy]

I think this happens with all information. Get some sociopath who loves his own voice and he will be saying shit he just makes up on the fly. Newbs hear the shit and parrot this ass clown. He probably thinks he knows everything there is to know so why listen to anyone.

 

[Liter O' Test]

theres a lot of people that wouldn't be involved in the industry if it wasn't for using chatgpt earlier than everyone else.

I think 1400mg tren was what he used to leave DYEL status himself

 

[TheOtherOne55]

So exactly what are we debating here lol that Kurt's opinion and theories about IM GH are bullshit? Or that Kurt in general is bullshit?
Or that he isn't coaching good/big/top guys? Or that this cycle of his is bullshit?

Personally, im not really a follower or big fan of Kurt but his client section on his IG isn't smallll by any means and everyone for the most part is tagged.

 

[Onemind1body1]

I work with Kurt. He’s been great and
fits what I’ve needed from a coach. I don’t compete so it it’s a bit more lifestyle guided, yet backed in competition like foundations as that type of discipline is how I operate best. He’s taken his time to understand my intricate background (many years prior) in associated addiction related issues, my rebuild re: choices around family, wife, kids and balancing high level responsibilities at work - all while giving me the best route to get from point A-B, safely, and still willing to put me in check when needed. We’ve made great progress together. I’d go as far as to say not only am I grateful he’s “on my team of life”, but my family is too. All about balance for me folks and he’s made himself extremely available to anything I need damn near any time. I’m west coast and I’ve texted him in EST on weekends near midnight, and he has responded in less than 3 minutes. Tell me the guy doesn’t care?
He has proven to me he truly DOES care about my pursuits, health and leadership for my young family.
We’ve had long discussions around damn near every compound and approach to many things, and I’d say I’ve never heard from him ANYTHING close to the cycle or outline shown above. And I say that with mentioning I do not shy away from wild cycles ideas. And at times, they’ve been shot down and leveled out with professionalism and integrity by Kurt as he knows I can get carried away.

I’m not here defending him, but I am here saying that he’s proven himself in my circle to keep me at or pursuing my best self, and I don’t take that lightly. Your results may vary as with every service offered by any professional. Just my take yall.

 

[hawkmoon]

@BigJP23 did a good job on Kurt and his GH stance.

I have always thought Kurt a fraud and huckster. I have seen nothing to change my mind.
He has all the tell tales:

• Fabricated authority figure image
• Fantastic but unverifiable client list
• Confidently delivers false information
• Cannot exemplify what he preaches himself
• Weaves incredible stories
• Inconsistent across interviews
• Falsifies his history and qualifications.

He and Todd Lyons are birds of a feather.
They are no better than all the other shysters out there in the "fitness influencer" world.

 

[nothuman]

Somewhere in the middle

 

[Onemind1body1]

None of which interest me.

Only thing I care about is how is involvement in my life has bettered MY LIFE and HEALTH. And both of those boxes have been checked. A true case of someone for everyone I guess? Have I researched certain claims hes made after the fact, OF COURSE. Overall, I'd pay 2x-3x over for the straight and narrow he's helped keep me on. Even 2x -3x is kinda bullshit. When you click with someone that benefits you and your family's ascension, from previous DIRE STRAIGHTS, it's quite hard to put a value on it. I hope everyone gets what they need from ANY coach they choose.

B

 

[hawkmoon]

theres a lot of people that wouldn't be involved in the industry if it wasn't for using chatgpt earlier than everyone else.

I think 1400mg tren was what he used to leave DYEL status himself

I thought it was the high dose GH that he said "mutated" him?

 

[hawkmoon]

None of which interest me.

Only thing I care about is how is involvement in my life has bettered MY LIFE and HEALTH. And both of those boxes have been checked. A true case of someone for everyone I guess? Have I researched certain claims hes made after the fact, OF COURSE. Overall, I'd pay 2x-3x over for the straight and narrow he's helped keep me on. Even 2x -3x is kinda bullshit. When you click with someone that benefits you and your family's ascension, from previous DIRE STRAIGHTS, it's quite hard to put a value on it. I hope everyone gets what they need from ANY coach they choose.

B

What you described is a friend of sorts, and that is fantastic.
Personally as a coach I take a strong interest in my clients and genuinely care about them, which is why I will release ones who want to go ways I won't support.

All that said however it's the unfounded and poor advice around PEDs that I think most of us take issue with, not if he can empathize with someone.

 

[Onemind1body1]

What you described is a friend of sorts, and that is fantastic.
Personally as a coach I take a strong interest in my clients and genuinely care about them, which is why I will release ones who want to go ways I won't support.

All that said however it's the unfounded and poor advice around PEDs that I think most of us take issue with, not if he can empathize with someone.

While I see your response, and by no means do I take it the wrong way. The advice I’ve been given on drug intake has been nothing close to as mentioned above- and we’ve leveled
Intake by over 70% in a few months, just as we agreed upon. Significant progress proven by bloods. I’ve got 0 issue with the constraints I’ve dealt with from his coaching stance and feel significantly better. My loved ones around me notice the difference even without being given any info on the backgrounds effort. Again, just engaging in conversation - and have zero doubt in your investment and your advice you give your clients . You sound top notch.

 

[hawkmoon]

While I see your response, and by no means do I take it the wrong way. The advice I’ve been given on drug intake has been nothing close to as mentioned above- and we’ve leveled
Intake by over 70% in a few months, just as we agreed upon. Significant progress proven by bloods. I’ve got 0 issue with the constraints I’ve dealt with from his coaching stance and feel significantly better. My loved ones around me notice the difference even without being given any info on the backgrounds effort. Again, just engaging in conversation - and have zero doubt in your investment and your advice you give your clients . You sound top notch.

Of course, no ill intent at all. I'm glad you get what you need from him.
My issues with him are open, but I don't place that on you in a any way.

 

[Thehulk95]

Personally I think there’s just so many questions around his background and actual coaching roster that make me think he’s just a con man. He flaunts being in school for his PhD and continually references his “pro clients”, yet I can’t find evidence he coaches all these pros he claims to, and his entire academic background is a mystery as far as I know. I think he’s a very smart and well spoken guy, but I think his academic background and coaching experience are greatly over exaggerated.

 

[FrenchBench22]

Idk what you’re trying to say here, but Guy has confirmed numerous times he was talking about Kurt here. The competitor doing this cycle was one of the two guys from Jersey that I mentioned. Both of which left Kurt and are now currently coached by Guy.

I don't live far from Kurt, and I've had long phone calls with him. We've met in person, and he presents as someone entirely different in person than he does online.

As a person, when all the fitness/bodybuilding/chemistry is aside, he comes off as a well intentioned, nice guy. A family man with a genuine concern for wellness and enjoyment of life.

But when the aforementioned subjects come up, a bit of a persona overtakes him. I've directly addressed this with him and he became very defensive. I've gone as far as to suggest that he should publicly retract his objectively false statements on these internet content videos he puts out, but he has yet to do so. "Samson takes at least 18iu gh... Nick Walker uses tren all year round... Etc."

There was a podcast where a listener called him out for a false statement (regarding efficacy of aromasin) and he threw a bit of a tantrum, and stated that no one is smart enough to properly read a study and we should be thankful that he is presenting this information to viewers. The study was then shared, his claims demonstrated false, and his social media presence has since diminished significantly.

My question is why would someone of such a seemingly high level of intelligence not just firstly learn and then speak the facts of bodybuilding with that level of intelligence, platform and then knowledge he could clean up in regards to coaching.

Respectfully, I think he means well. But I also think he saw an opportunity to make a quick dollar by presenting himself as an educator in this regard, but failed to deceive the entirety of his viewership as he intended. At the end of the day, he got what he wanted: an added revenue stream, people willing to pay him money for his time.