Kurt havens: expert educator or expert bullshitter

[Onemind1body1]

Say what you will about anything and everything, but he is a GH savant. Nobody is taking that from him , I’m sorry

 

[dantes]

Some of things I have heard Kurt say are just ridiculous. He stated on the elite fits podcast that bodybuilders barely need any sodium as Hunter gathers ate little sodium in their diet. Wtf? Hunter gathers were barely surviving not trying to optimize muscle growth

He also claims to get real muscle that sticks from GH you need to run 18iu per day as this what aids patients run. Yea they are trying to prevent severe muscle wasting to the point of dying

 

[thethinker48]

Totally agree. I saw an interview with John Jewett where you could tell they had collaborated and liked each other. And I like John and respect his opinion. So it’s always a weird slippery slope. I have also heard many a coach really praise his GH book as a wealth of knowledge. But again, here we are as we fall back into the the extremely subjective “big guys” definition lol

this thread is evolving into “who is a bad coach and for what reason.” Is it response times? Is it theories that seem bullshit? Who knows. I’ve talked to guys who’ve had horrible experiences with Justin Harris, Justin Compton, AJ, Andrew Berry, etc. it alll has to do with vibe and personality fits, that’s all. What’s one persons trash, is another’s treasure

Justin Harris is an amazing coach if you can turn your brain off and operate like a machine

Sadly many bodybuilders probably requires 50% emotional support/therapy and 50% coaching to be successful. But if you are wired like a machine, Justin will take you so far

 

[tenny]

remember.......like and subscribe.

 

[MajinBoo]

13:00 onwards

Just sharing this as Kurt’s theories have been kicked about on here a fair bit and seem to have a divide on people who believe him and those that don’t

I think he’s able to sell almost any claim he makes because he’s very well spoken, obviously very intelligent and speaks with such authority

My question is why would someone of such a seemingly high level of intelligence not just firstly learn and then speak the facts of bodybuilding with that level of intelligence, platform and then knowledge he could clean up in regards to coaching.

He claims to already be at max capacity with clients and consults etc which may be true but surely short lived if he’s just a fraud…a smart fraud but fraud nonetheless

Ironically links into the ongoing discussions me and @TheOtherOne55 have in regards to it being hard to find genuine info and there’s something to be said for having been there and done it yourself

Credit to @BigJP23 for the video

@BigJP23 from your statement on Q&A it seems you advocate for IM GH. From previous episodes I remember you were using a bolus dose pre-bed. Were you doing it IM? How long after last meal (w/ carbs?)? I ask because if one bolus dose is done pre-bed, considering the fast peak of IM it might be worth to go subQ in this case. Also, even if some studies shown that the area under the curve for IM was higher, the difference to subQ is minimal as per Dr. Dean review of some studies.
Also, you faced carpal tunnel. Have you tried to split doses to minimize that?

 

[BigJP23]

@BigJP23 from your statement on Q&A it seems you advocate for IM GH. From previous episodes I remember you were using a bolus dose pre-bed. Were you doing it IM? How long after last meal (w/ carbs?)? I ask because if one bolus dose is done pre-bed, considering the fast peak of IM it might be worth to go subQ in this case. Also, even if some studies shown that the area under the curve for IM was higher, the difference to subQ is minimal as per Dr. Dean review of some studies.
Also, you faced carpal tunnel. Have you tried to split doses to minimize that?

Hey man
If you watched the video, I spent time thoroughly explaining I see zero tangible difference in real life between the two methods. It all works, there’s no wrong way to take it. That was not the point I was making in the video.
My last meal is at 6pm and I go to bed at 9pm.
The carpal tunnel at this point is permanent whether I completely discontinue use or not. The only thing improving now would be surgery.
Prior to it getting this bad I tried every different split schedule you can imagine, for me it was solely total dose dependent.

 

[MajinBoo]

Hey man
If you watched the video, I spent time thoroughly explaining I see zero tangible difference in real life between the two methods. It all works, there’s no wrong way to take it. That was not the point I was making in the video.
My last meal is at 6pm and I go to bed at 9pm.
The carpal tunnel at this point is permanent whether I completely discontinue use or not. The only thing improving now would be surgery.
Prior to it getting this bad I tried every different split schedule you can imagine, for me it was solely total dose dependent.

Yes you did but with slight inclination to IM as per my interpretation.
Yeah I also heard your latest update with regards to the surgery and it sucks.
I would say you could try no fill the gap with lr3 but your experience with it is not positive either as I remember.

 

[massephase]

and there’s something to be said for having been there and done it yourself

Yes, true, but ... it's not necessary that someone reaches excellence himself, but that his ideas prove out to be true in application to plenty of people that are within a wide range of genetic potential. It's pretty simple. A PhD or any other certification like this is practically useless in my books when it comes to the question who to listen to.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Yes, true, but ... it's not necessary that someone reaches excellence himself, but that his ideas prove out to be true in application to plenty of people that are within a wide range of genetic potential. It's pretty simple. A PhD or any other certification like this is practically useless in my books when it comes to the question who to listen to.

Totally agree. You are right. But i think his statements of, "well this is what my big guys" or "my pros do" kinda nullifies that statement. Because what the big guys do and what the pros do is vaaastly different than how you are going to coach the regular Joe competitor. Testing your theory on a stage ready 260lb physique is incredibly different than testing it on a 202lb regional guy. And i think this is probably the problem...people thiiiink its the same. It is not. Those are a lot of the discussions @traininsane11 and i have been having. It is not apples to apples. It's apples to watermelons.

 

[Ha.Ki.Beom]

Some of things I have heard Kurt say are just ridiculous. He stated on the elite fits podcast that bodybuilders barely need any sodium as Hunter gathers ate little sodium in their diet. Wtf? Hunter gathers were barely surviving not trying to optimize muscle growth

He also claims to get real muscle that sticks from GH you need to run 18iu per day as this what aids patients run. Yea they are trying to prevent severe muscle wasting to the point of dying

what he means is the dose reported in studies that indicated hyperplasia is 6mg.....and there is way too many bodybuilders thinking they need to salt their cream of rice and whey protein and every single thing they eat, but at the same time they are all taking all the telmisartan on earth and on top of that combination blood pressure medication to manage all the extra sodium they are purposely adding to their diet.

 

[tenny]

It's apples to watermelons.

apples to taxicabs.

 

[bjjgear]

The amount of agency as grown men some of these people sacrifice to their "coach" is one of the cringiest phenomenons in sport. For that dude to create a video threatening another coach because the pageant contestant was taking too many drugs makes it appear as if its a boy's father coming to his defense - how devastatingly embarrassing for all involved.

 

[madcap71]

I can't stand Kurt, personally, but annoyingly he does on occasion do content with people I do listen to.

Something about his grumpy, know it all demeanor irritates me.

That and every video he's in has that avatar of him from about 30 years ago

 

[Hatchet]

Lot's of these coaches are just con-men/shills/bullshitters.
Everything is out there and known. Yet, many put a spin on things like they invented something new.
No one needed these people back in the day, yet they came in way more diced, etc.

BB today is a joke...

 

[td]

The carpal tunnel at this point is permanent whether I completely discontinue use or not. The only thing improving now would be surgery.
Prior to it getting this bad I tried every different split schedule you can imagine, for me it was solely total dose dependent.

You may have covered this in your video. If so, apologies as I don't follow much bodybuilding content.

How do you know the carpal tunnel is permanent? Were there prior signs? Were there any pre-existing conditions? Do you think this was dose-dependent or just bad luck? Do you think you could have done anything differently to avoid the situation? Thanks.

 

[BigJP23]

You may have covered this in your video. If so, apologies as I don't follow much bodybuilding content.

How do you know the carpal tunnel is permanent? Were there prior signs? Were there any pre-existing conditions? Do you think this was dose-dependent or just bad luck? Do you think you could have done anything differently to avoid the situation? Thanks.

I don’t want to hijack this thread so I’ll send you a dm

 

[tenny]

I don’t want to hijack this thread so I’ll send you a dm

no.....we want to hear.

 

[qbkilla]

The amount of agency as grown men some of these people sacrifice to their "coach" is one of the cringiest phenomenons in sport. For that dude to create a video threatening another coach because the pageant contestant was taking too many drugs makes it appear as if its a boy's father coming to his defense - how devastatingly embarrassing for all involved.

Agree. The whole "coach" phenomenon in itself is cringe, and this extends beyond bodybuilding..."life coach" "behavior coach" "instructional coach" lol.

I guess its easier to say "im a coach" then say "im a dude that tells other dudes what I think they should eat, how they should train, and how many drugs they should take."

I prefer the old school term personal trainer. I don't recall Alex azarian (rip) ever calling himself coach he was an online trainer.

People literally spending $ on a "coach" yet sleeping 5 hours per night and "having a cheat meal or two with the family " 3x a week and not taking their sets to failure

 

[Thehulk95]

Agree. The whole "coach" phenomenon in itself is cringe, and this extends beyond bodybuilding..."life coach" "behavior coach" "instructional coach" lol.

I guess its easier to say "im a coach" then say "im a dude that tells other dudes what I think they should eat, how they should train, and how many drugs they should take."

I prefer the old school term personal trainer. I don't recall Alex azarian (rip) ever calling himself coach he was an online trainer.

People literally spending $ on a "coach" yet sleeping 5 hours per night and "having a cheat meal or two with the family " 3x a week and not taking their sets to failure

Not to mention how weird it is all these people literally make who their coach is their identity. They’ve got their coach in their bio, they wear clothing from their coaches “team” 24/7, and have to tag their coach in a million ig posts a day. It’s just so bizarre to me

 

[qbkilla]

Not to mention how weird it is all these people literally make who their coach is their identity. They’ve got their coach in their bio, they wear clothing from their coaches “team” 24/7, and have to tag their coach in a million ig posts a day. It’s just so bizarre to me

Yes lol. Its almost like some guys worship their coach like a god. I think part of it is they view the coach as their mentor or friend, when in reality the "coach" or trainer just views them as income.