LANTUS : Yes Or NO ?

[warlock]

forgot to ask

Mike,

If using the largest doses, 1-2 times per week on weakest bodypart days, how many weeks in a row would you use this protocol?

 

[goal245]

When I read Mike's first post I was going to reply how I knew he thinks high dosed lantus is the optimal way and low dosed lantus is a waste of time in most scenarios. Goal's post about diabetics is spot on too. Obviously they don't eat much but it's not like they are walking round huge from using high doses of insulin. When used by bodybuilders though it can obviously change people fast.

I think another important thing about insulin is that it is an advanced drug and shouldn't really be used unless someone has intentions to get as big as possible and is already doing everything else 100%, good diet, good training, decent aas dose, decent gh dose, ideally a competitor trying to go up a weight class, earn pro card etc. People at this level should already have a good understanding of various drugs, their personal diet needs etc and that more drugs, or being bigger in general = more health risks.

I don't think insulin is for someone just trying to look good/gym rat, it will help their physique if used properly but why? insulin is not needed to look big/good at the gym. It can be fun to try insulin just to see how it feels and there is no harm if used in reasonable amounts and short duration.

I do not think anyone should be using insulin constantly unless they are diabetic or they are making a living from bodybuilding, by that point they should already know what insulin protocol is best for them and if they need it for their physique goals

 

[Elvia1023]

I think another important thing about insulin is that it is an advanced drug and shouldn't really be used unless someone has intentions to get as big as possible and is already doing everything else 100%, good diet, good training, decent aas dose, decent gh dose, ideally a competitor trying to go up a weight class, earn pro card etc. People at this level should already have a good understanding of various drugs, their personal diet needs etc and that more drugs, or being bigger in general = more health risks.

I don't think insulin is for someone just trying to look good/gym rat, it will help their physique if used properly but why? insulin is not needed to look big/good at the gym. It can be fun to try insulin just to see how it feels and there is no harm if used in reasonable amounts and short duration.

I do not think anyone should be using insulin constantly unless they are diabetic or they are making a living from bodybuilding, by that point they should already know what insulin protocol is best for them and if they need it for their physique goals

I think the last point could be argued. Obviously everyone are adults so can use what they want. Just because someone doesn't compete doesn't mean they shouldn't use a specific drug. Many have posted guys shouldn't use aas who don't compete. Bodybuilding could be a very important part of someones life without them wanting to compete or make a living from it.

You don't need aas to look good so maybe guys shouldn't use that who don't compete either. I understand your point though as you mentioned insulin is an advanced drug. Although using the same logic we could call many drugs Advanced due to their side effect profile so perhaps the same guys shouldn't use tren or dnp etc. I know many gym rats who use tren and well they shouldn't because they can't handle the mental side effects (many people I know don't take it due to that).

Then let's say we have a gym rat who wants to be really big and lean. Would he be better to use 500mg test, 300mg npp and 50mg avar (ed) or 400mg test with 2iu hgh and 5iu insulin twice daily. That cycle I just posted wouldn't raise any eyebrows as being too excessive but the later could be used with similar results and to me is much more "healthy". So then doses of things come into play. 5iu slin pre workout only to me is not going to impact anyones health badly.

I am just messing about as I do partly agree and see why you would post that. I just have never liked it when guys state (preach) certain things should just be used if you compete as we are all adults. Millions smoke and eat fast food and that to be is worst than taking sensible doses of insulin if you are not diabetic. Drugs are drugs and most of them can be used sensibly/smartly. The issue is many abuse everything in life.

 

[goal245]

I think the last point could be argued. Obviously everyone are adults so can use what they want. Just because someone doesn't compete doesn't mean they shouldn't use a specific drug. Many have posted guys shouldn't use aas who don't compete. Bodybuilding could be a very important part of someones life without them wanting to compete or make a living from it.

To me it's kinda like these gym rats I see at the gym that think they are "powerlifters", Top of the line huge knee wraps, fancy belt, power lifting shoes, wrist wraps and chalk on upper back to squat 315lbs for 1 sloppy rep at a body weight of 200+ lbs. Sure the equipment looks cool and probably makes the guy feel like superman but it just looks silly.

I actually saw this about a week ago, some new guy at the gym all suited out, I though he was some kind of pro Olympic lifter with all the gear he had on, was excited to see a huge squat only to see him struggle with 315.

But I have no problem with someone trying insulin just to try, most wont stick with it long term anyways

and by insulin being an advanced drug what I mean is in order to get most out of insulin you need to have everything else, diet, training, aas, and hgh along with insulin, taking insulin with one of those variables missing wont produce the best results

 

[Elvia1023]

They are just idiots. Nothing wrong with trying to be safe but as everyone knows idiots are everywhere. One was in my gym before and he pisses me off as he lifts everything up and then drops it. So for machine presses he presses the weight then let's it drop and bang. No control of the negative whatsoever and every rep is the same. Tri-cep extensions, leg curls etc bang bang bang... makes so much noise. He is going to break all the equipment. I tried telling him the importance of the negative when he was pressing but there was a language barrier. He said he was not bodybuilding so I assume he thinks he is a powerlifter but he is a soft 220 and had a massive 2 plates a side failing on about 4 reps :banghead:

To me it's kinda like these gym rats I see at the gym that think they are "powerlifters", Top of the line huge knee wraps, fancy belt, power lifting shoes, wrist wraps and chalk on upper back to squat 315lbs for 1 sloppy rep at a body weight of 200+ lbs. Sure the equipment looks cool and probably makes the guy feel like superman but it just looks silly.

I actually saw this about a week ago, some new guy at the gym all suited out, I though he was some kind of pro Olympic lifter with all the gear he had on, was excited to see a huge squat only to see him struggle with 315.

But I have no problem with someone trying insulin just to try, most wont stick with it long term anyways

and by insulin being an advanced drug what I mean is in order to get most out of insulin you need to have everything else, diet, training, aas, and hgh along with insulin, taking insulin with one of those variables missing wont produce the best results

 

[Sanctus Umbra]

If using Lantus at around 100iu+ as Mike Arnold suggested, would one still use the 10g per 1iu protocol considering Lantus is 'safer' than the others in regards to hypoglycaemia?
Does that mean one has to consume 1000g of carbs throughout the day to cover the insulin dose?

 

[goal245]

If using Lantus at around 100iu+ as Mike Arnold suggested, would one still use the 10g per 1iu protocol considering Lantus is 'safer' than the others in regards to hypoglycaemia?
Does that mean one has to consume 1000g of carbs throughout the day to cover the insulin dose?

no unless you want to get very fat, very hard to go hypo on lantus, your body has various mechanisms to correct low blood sugar and lantus is slow enough to where those mechanisms are able to compensate even if you don't eat

 

[Mike Arnold]

If using Lantus at around 100iu+ as Mike Arnold suggested, would one still use the 10g per 1iu protocol considering Lantus is 'safer' than the others in regards to hypoglycaemia?
Does that mean one has to consume 1000g of carbs throughout the day to cover the insulin dose?

No. Your insulin dose should be based on your dietary requirments, not the other way around.

This is one of the reasons I was hesitant to post the doses...because I knew someone would say "I am going to start using such and such an amount" without any idea of it is right for them.

Remember, the dosage range varies because the size and dietary requirements of bodybuilders also varies. Only the largest 300 pound guys eating a lot of food would be using 200 iu...and more often than not they don't even need to go that high. Even at 100 iu you should be pretty developed and eating a lot. I would NEVER put a 6 foot, 200 pound bodybuilder on Lantus. I still think that most people are best off using pre-workout insulin (Humulin/Novolin) only.

Lastly, anyone who has never used Lantus before needs to increase their dose slowly. If the individual thinks they will end up around 100 iu based on their current diet, they would want to start at like 20-30 iu the first time, then increase it by 10 iu each time until they hit their mark. Also, be willing to adjust your dose downward if you start going up and find that you are experiencing hypo symptoms before hitting your originally projected target dose. If there are any hypo symptoms (outside of the most minor, short-lived symptoms, but preferably there should be none), the dose is too high.

 

[tren_plz]

Id just eat your regular diet and start with 40iu. You have counter regulatory mechanisms that are going to stop you from going hypo just eating a bodybuilding diet.

 

[pieguy]

Thought I'd keep this thread from dying since it has a lot of useful info. In people's experience, when does insulin sensitivity become bad enough that you cycle off ur basal insulin? Given the vicious cycle of adding more insulin to keep fasting BG levels down, you eventually hit a point where this becomes counterproductive.

I'm trying out tresiba right now with 5iu gh daily and noticed that at 15iu, my waking BG was 113 which was a bit of a mindfuck despite only being on tresiba for a week. I'm not sure if at this point I take a few days off the slin and run through some metformin or I keep upping the daily tresiba dose. At this point seeing MA's recommended doses, I think I can add a bit more before I come off.

Also, do people use metformin using basal insulin or does it pose a problem with possible hypoglycemia?

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[powerof2]

Thought I'd keep this thread from dying since it has a lot of useful info. In people's experience, when does insulin sensitivity become bad enough that you cycle off ur basal insulin? Given the vicious cycle of adding more insulin to keep fasting BG levels down, you eventually hit a point where this becomes counterproductive.

I'm trying out tresiba right now with 5iu gh daily and noticed that at 15iu, my waking BG was 113 which was a bit of a mindfuck despite only being on tresiba for a week. I'm not sure if at this point I take a few days off the slin and run through some metformin or I keep upping the daily tresiba dose. At this point seeing MA's recommended doses, I think I can add a bit more before I come off.

Also, do people use metformin using basal insulin or does it pose a problem with possible hypoglycemia?

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I use metformin along with basal. No problems. I’m in the same boat. Just went off Gh for 4 days and ran dnp. Glucose dropped fast. First day back on Gh woke up with high fasted blood sugar. Yes I can go up with basal insulin. I’m not sure if I want to push it much further. Taking 20iu basal. Along with rapid around work outs.


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[lalovegaa]

My experience with lantus and what i learned by myself i would never use low dose of lantus, its not just a waste of time, food timing at low doses its hard to deal with it, you will fuck up your sensivity easily due to incorrectly carbs/ caloric ingest. As a lantus user i would go around 100-150 uis so its more easily for timing food and sensivity will work like a champ. But i preffer humulin r over lantus

 

[lodykarsen]

I'd go watch/listen to some interviews with Colette Nelson where she discusses Lantus.

IMO, Lantus is better used to lower blood sugar because of GH. Even then, the amount of slin actually used is smaller—20-40ius spread out over 24 hour period.

I know guys that have used Lantus and could only use it for 2-3 weeks because of the extreme insulin resistance they got quiiiick.

I'm much more comfortable using insulin-R and humalog.

Good Podcast listen from Advices Radio with Colette Nelson on Lantus info...

https://advicesradio.com/track/episode-25

 

[KEYTECH]

love lantus high dose of 10 year for few weeks!