Leaked audio from Brazilian competitor, Marcello De Angelis

[nothuman]

Nothing really new here... It's just the guy talking to a friend on the phone.



The audio:



https://youtu.be/5vlBOlFsgwI?t=177



Rough translation:



"Obviously, it's progressive, right? Those that fuck themselves the most are the ones who use too much from the get go. Someone like Dexter Jackson never had to go too crazy, I'd think. I believe 1999 was when he was using the most.

But he's an exception to the rule, always evolving as a bodybuilder. You can tell his legs got a little smaller, but with better separation and maturity.



Now take Dallas for instance (this was before Dallas passed), he must be on loads of everything, much much more than someone like Dexter, like twice as much or more. But, like... Compared to myself or Brandão, Dexter probably uses a lot more stuff.



It's insulin shots many times a day, peptids, HGH 5 or 6 times a day, that's today's bodybuilding.



And that's the average level. Who knows what the Olympia guys do? Maybe if some Olympia guy sits down with me and tells me "I use this and that" I might believe him. But even then I'm probably gonna think it's more than that. Because guys usually don't tell the truth, right? Who said guys like Levrone and Shawn Ray used reasonable doses? They probably did 30iu HGH, IGF, slin, everything.



Some guys don't have many sides, that's genetics. But, of course, you can run into trouble. You take 10ml of test enanthate per day you'll run into trouble. You see? Dennis James prescribes 8g of anabolics for his amateur guys. This is how it is today. If you want to use much less, go back to the 70's. That's how it is today and you'll have to do it. Some will die, those who don't will win competitions and that's how it is. Chemical warfare.



Training, diet, focus? Sure, congratulations. Of course you need all of that, but it's chemical warfare..."



This is Marcello:

And Brandão, the other guy he talks about:

This guy is really going down the wrong path unfortunately

 

[xman280]

If you are on 4-8g and still haven't reached Jay's level you don't take more drugs but simply realize you don't have the genetics to be at that level ever. I would then re-evaluate your drug intake and think is it even needed.

well bodybuilders from the Arnold's era used just as much steroids, but there were no "Jays" among them. They simply didnt know how to use GH and insulin....

 

[Bio]

Sorry. I swear I thought twice about starting this thread. Thought it'd be an interesting piece of conversation because this comes from a guy who just won Mr. Universe or something like that. And is very young...

It's not your fault ALLEX. It's interesting to know what bodybuilders are thinking/saying...it just happened to start the same old talk about, "I know some bodybuilders that take 10 grams." So what? They're stupid!

 

[Bio]

well bodybuilders from the Arnold's era used just as much steroids, but there were no "Jays" among them. They simply didnt know how to use GH and insulin....

Don't make blanket statements like that.

 

[Pretzel Logic]

He seems to have pretty good perspective. Doesn't seem to like all the stuff that is required nowadays, says he uses smaller amounts, and you need to start off low and progress. For a guy trying to really go somewhere, and knowing that certain things are unavoidable, he seems pretty conservative.

 

[rAJJIN]

8g lol! Forget that.
That is steroid suicide


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[totalrecomp]

If you need THAT much stuff to compete; Why bother?

Even with 4+ grams, you aren't going to be a top pro if that's what it takes for you to turn pro. Let's blow out your heart or kidneys in pursuit of something you will never be good at.

If I barely passed calculus even with working diligently; Would it make sense for me to pursue a PHD in applied mathematics? I might even get accepted into a program, but waste years and years of my life barely making the bottom bucket. And math is something that's foundational and most people CAN be good at; bodybuilding isn't something everyone can be good at the top level.

I don't know why guys don't look at the pattern here. There have been freaks in history who got away with doing and taking very little: Paul Dillet being a great example. Their lack of drive, and commitment was the biggest reason they got nowhere. Now take someone with equally if not better genetics, give them a boatload of drugs, an environment to only train, eat and sleep in, and they will GROW WAY MORE than even your average pro bodybuilder. That guy is Big Ramy.

No special protocol, no special drugs. Just genetics, and high enough doses with proper training, and nutrition.

Now add high doses of meth to stay awake studying in pursuit of that PHD and you have a spot on analogy.

 

[totalrecomp]

Oh good, another thread guessing how much drugs bodybuilders use.

True, BUT I think we are getting really close this time................

 

[totalrecomp]

This isn't pointed at you El. Here's the reality...dosages vary. A lot of people are searching for a definitive answer with PED's. They want someone to list a cycle that is the ultimate gains maker for everyone and that's not how it works. The people with shitty genetics think EVERY big bodybuilder is on 5+ grams of gear because they look like shit on 2 grams. These threads never do anything but cause arguments. Here it is folks...some guys take a lot and some guys take a lot less. Let's get back to talking about training and diet...it's so much more interesting.

I would be more interested in the actual compounds, the timing, reasoning and logic(if any) in how they set up their program. This would, to me, be far more interesting than total mg/week.

 

[Wynn]

That pic of Rafael is a little old. He is targeting the San Marino in about 11 weeks.

**broken link removed**

https://www.facebook.com/Rafael-Brandao-Ifbb-Pro-137674573455314/

 

[Wynn]

Back training posted yesterday:

[ame="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wcg-mll2dzc"]HORSE #Ep. 42 - BACK DAY com o RAFAEL BRANDÃO - YouTube[/ame]

 

[Reno911]

I wonder why they didn't film any of his heavy and/or hard sets. Man.... I think we all wish we could grow from training like that.

Back training posted yesterday:

HORSE #Ep. 42 - BACK DAY com o RAFAEL BRANDÃO - YouTube

 

[KillerStack]

Here it is folks...some guys take a lot and some guys take a lot less. Let's get back to talking about training and diet...it's so much more interesting.

Though training and diet are a lot like drugs too. The dose (amount of training/food) varies and if you don't look impressive on any ol' program and diet you won't eventually find one that'll make you good. There's no magic grams of protein. It's all genetics. Asking a guy with an excellent bodypart for his training program for that bodypart is like asking for his drug stack - it's not the program or diet or stack, it's mainly genetics! So what is there to talk about?

Though I would like to know if DJ actually wrote a cycle for someone with 8 grams, sounds a bit far fetched.

 

[sazo75]

Back training posted yesterday:

HORSE #Ep. 42 - BACK DAY com o RAFAEL BRANDÃO - YouTube

Raefael Brandao looks off in that video, doesn't seem as impressive as any of his photos, he looks big don't get me wrong but just nowhere near how I though't he look. Maybe he's just starting to get back on the horse and will ride it hard.

 

[Iabadman]

First of all .....I doubt Denis james wrote 8 gram cycles ..lol..when he was Milos he was doing 1500 mg cycles like most of the guys in his day [ I once spent a day talking in depth with milos about bbing ...bright guy ]...where he blew up was from doing gh in the 10 iu plus range and insulin in fairly high amounts . ....he told me he put on 30 or 40 lbs of stage wt from that . . I believe that . Plus he trained hard and heavy . james was beast . And smart he got out when he did . Was involved in a lot of shit . Lucky he is alive or not in jail.

It is is sad how far it has got ,and I see it here , so you know guys are pushing it at the highest levels as well ....it sucks to hear it has become chemical warfare . But it is reality .


And yes Killer .....it is all just a matter of genes ....but the drugs in extremes just make the same looking bodies . They become not interesting anymore imo ... to me training and diet , though also are effected by genes and experience . They have pure essence to them that is hard to explain . Maybe because they involve an action more than taking a pill or shoving a needle in your body ....

 

[Iabadman]

One thing I think we will be seeing at the highest levels is cardiomyopathy ....in fact , imo if they are ever honest . It is probably what took out Dallas . I believe most high level body have it from the high dose gh . I bet lots of guys here have it and don't even know it ......I have no doubt after my recent Mk experiment ......I wouldn't be surprised if I damaged myself in a week ....I feel like shit .....cant imagine at these levels what they are doing to their hearts ....and for what ?

 

[Fluffy_XL]

And DJ said Bader tripled all his doses

DJ said a lot of stuff...

 

[Elvia1023]

First of all .....I doubt Denis james wrote 8 gram cycles ..lol..when he was Milos he was doing 1500 mg cycles like most of the guys in his day [ I once spent a day talking in depth with milos about bbing ...bright guy ]...where he blew up was from doing gh in the 10 iu plus range and insulin in fairly high amounts . ....he told me he put on 30 or 40 lbs of stage wt from that . . I believe that . Plus he trained hard and heavy . james was beast . And smart he got out when he did . Was involved in a lot of shit . Lucky he is alive or not in jail.

It is is sad how far it has got ,and I see it here , so you know guys are pushing it at the highest levels as well ....it sucks to hear it has become chemical warfare . But it is reality .


And yes Killer .....it is all just a matter of genes ....but the drugs in extremes just make the same looking bodies . They become not interesting anymore imo ... to me training and diet , though also are effected by genes and experience . They have pure essence to them that is hard to explain . Maybe because they involve an action more than taking a pill or shoving a needle in your body ....

Milos used Dennis James to tell Nasser how crazy his doses were. He had Nasser speak to him on the phone and ask his test dose and he wouldn't believe him as it was so low. He said Dennis and Milos had planned it just to trick him. Milos has spoken about these things quite a lot and is very open which is good to see as most aren't.

I partly agree with the certain look but at the same time I know guys who are more classic physique looking who abuse gear and they look great. Not all of them are bursting full with water which I suspect is what you meant. You know the lean body but full of water and red skinned but a bloated face. Pretty much how all the big pro's look in the off season. You can have that look on 400mg test and lot's of food though and sure add some mk-677 or the likes of riptropin (both even in small doses) and many can balloon up. There are some guys who take boatloads of drugs and simply don't look like it whilst others use small amounts and people guessing would think they were abusing.

I agree and understand your opinion but me personally I love training with a passion and I find it harder pinning drugs everyday than I ever do training brutally hard 5 days per week. Taking lot's of drugs is far from easy. Yes swallowing tablets is easy but pinning various short estered aas and pep tides and slin etc 5 times daily is far from easy to me. There are guys pinning 10-50ml syntherol daily and various other drugs who look like freaks and that takes dedication no matter how much some disagree with the drug side of bodybuilding. I am not advocating high drugs at all and I love training and it's the foundation of everything but merely stating drugs can be far from the easy way for some people. There are some bodybuilders who hate injecting so I assume doing 2 grams consistently for them is a big effort. I know guys who have been using gear for years and they sill can't even inject themselves

I would be more interested in the actual compounds, the timing, reasoning and logic(if any) in how they set up their program. This would, to me, be far more interesting than total mg/week.

I get your post but from what I have seen this is another miconception with how guys think "pro's" run their cycles. I am not stating some don't do this but guys on forums assume most run big complex cycles and have no estered compounds around training and special ways of running slin and hgh. When from what I have seen and heard it's literally the complete opposite. A lot of the drugs we openly speak about on here haven't even been heard of by most non forum bodybuilders. Many are running very basic stacks and haven't a clue what the likes of pramipexole or bromocriptine is.

Many just take what they have and as much as they can with no real outlines of cycles. They may have 2 vials so they inject it within a week for example. Guys on the forums run much more complex cycles than I imagine some of the great pro's ever did. Although many do taper up and down and do have some sort of "plan" outlined. We are the ones who over complicate things. I am not stating certain timing can bring advanatge as it can make a difference for some compounds but a lot of the time these guys are just banging it in whenever they get a chance. It's the same for guys who are not on the forums and just gym rats many of my mates just inject on random days.

Although the above is more just the "abusers" but there are many of them. These days guys are much more methodical. I am not pretending to know what everyone is doing and some will be super methodical especially the lower dose guys but this is something I have heard about lot's over the years. I have seen Big A post about this a few times too over the years. Many top guys and ordinary lifters would take what they could get at the time. The availability and access to drugs these days has changed everything though.

 

[Elvia1023]

That pic of Rafael is a little old. He is targeting the San Marino in about 11 weeks.

**broken link removed**

https://www.facebook.com/Rafael-Brandao-Ifbb-Pro-137674573455314/

He looks fantastic. I see he is coached by my mates coach. Obviously it can vary hugely but that coach is what I would call moderate and cares about health. Far from reckless and my mate actually uses more than he was told even though I told him to follow the doses.

 

[ALLEX]

Raefael Brandao looks off in that video, doesn't seem as impressive as any of his photos, he looks big don't get me wrong but just nowhere near how I though't he look. Maybe he's just starting to get back on the horse and will ride it hard.

Did you just... Nah, you didn't... Or did you? Nah... Don't think you did...