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lean mass cycle critique

david-L

New member
Registered
Joined
Nov 24, 2012
Messages
80
Stats :

29 years old
bf 12-14 %
Weight : 73 kg

Body measurements (if it is of any use) :

Biceps : 34 cm
Chest : 98 cm
Quads : 57 cm
Belly Button : 83 cm

Diet :

2.5 g protein / kg daily

Training days :

2350 kcal (- 10 % of my maintenance)
high carb
low fat
high protein.

Rest days :

1800 kcal ( - 30 % of my maintenance)

high fat
low carb
high protein


carb sources : sweetpotato, quinoa, bulgur
fat sources : avocado, olive oil / coconut oil, bacon
protein sources : chicken filé, salmon, beef ( depending on if it's high fat or low fat day) , On 100 % whey gold standard.


I know I am on a low calorie diet so no need to mention that I need to up my calories to gain.

I am looking to gain slowly - lean quality muscles while on a kcal deficit.


Cycle : (please give improvements etc) (I have been doing plenty of cycles before but never Primo)

I am thinking of throwing in some Tren E in there.

I don't care about the cost so no need to mention that it is expensive.
all the oil is BD (brittish dragon)

Week 1-14:
Primobolan 2.5 ml x 2 = 500mg,
Test E 0.75 ml x 2 = 350mg,
Maybe add Tren?

Week 2-14: Arimidex 0.5mg EOD
Week 2-14: HCG 250 i.u. 2x week

PCT ( starts 16 days after last Test E):

Clomid 50/50/50/50
Nolvadex 40/20/20/20/20/20
 
You'll always get more help around here if you use Imperial...

I'd postpone this cycle until you are 8-10% bf and around 90kg. Not that skinny people shouldn't cycle, but it's better when you squeeze every pound of muscle out of you naturally before juicing.
 
Why run primo if u plan to add tren? Why not just 350mg for test and 600mg for tren? You'll like this better!
 
I'd postpone this cycle until you are 8-10% bf and around 90kg. Not that skinny people shouldn't cycle, but it's better when you squeeze every pound of muscle out of you naturally before juicing.

I think 8-10% body fat at 90 kg = 198 lbs is difficult to do naturally, especially if you don't have a big frame.

But I agree with your point. He didn't say how tall he is, but he's about 160 lbs at 12-14% body fat. Plus, he's looking to gain "lean quality muscles while on a kcal deficit." I think he needs to learn more about how to eat and train before he runs any more cycles, otherwise he'll be wasting the gear and getting nowhere near the results he could be.
 
Stats :

29 years old
bf 12-14 %
Weight : 73 kg

Body measurements (if it is of any use) :

Biceps : 34 cm
Chest : 98 cm
Quads : 57 cm
Belly Button : 83 cm

Diet :

2.5 g protein / kg daily

Training days :

2350 kcal (- 10 % of my maintenance)
high carb
low fat
high protein.


Rest days :

1800 kcal ( - 30 % of my maintenance)

high fat
low carb
high protein



carb sources : sweetpotato, quinoa, bulgur
fat sources : avocado, olive oil / coconut oil, bacon
protein sources : chicken filé, salmon, beef ( depending on if it's high fat or low fat day) , On 100 % whey gold standard.


I know I am on a low calorie diet so no need to mention that I need to up my calories to gain.

I am looking to gain slowly - lean quality muscles while on a kcal deficit.


Cycle : (please give improvements etc) (I have been doing plenty of cycles before but never Primo)

I am thinking of throwing in some Tren E in there.

I don't care about the cost so no need to mention that it is expensive.
all the oil is BD (brittish dragon)

Week 1-14:
Primobolan 2.5 ml x 2 = 500mg,
Test E 0.75 ml x 2 = 350mg,
Maybe add Tren?

Week 2-14: Arimidex 0.5mg EOD
Week 2-14: HCG 250 i.u. 2x week

PCT ( starts 16 days after last Test E):

Clomid 50/50/50/50
Nolvadex 40/20/20/20/20/20


about the bolded stuff above:
where/how did you get these numbers?
what does "high carb low fat high protein etc." mean to you?

and DEF need to know how tall you are. at 160lbs.....
-JS
 
hey guyz.

thanks for the input.

I forgot to mention how tall I am.

5 feet 7 inches. (171 cm) so I am not that skinny.:D

Regarding the bolded stuff - I use the harris-benedict formula to calculate my maintenance level.

My diet is supposed to be a cut (leangains style) with 16 hours fast.


Rest day :

fat = 100g
carb = 50g
protein = 180g

Training day :

Fat = 25-50g
carb = 200-300 g
protein = 180 g


I do understand that diet is the most important thing and I will definitely do a consultation but I am here now to ask for your input regarding the cycle - so please give me some input on it if you can... I would really appreciate it.

Thanks once again guys!
 
5 feet 7 inches. (171 cm) so I am not that skinny.:D

No, you really are that skinny.

Take whatever money you were going to spend on your cycle and use it to hire a coach to handle your diet and training. Not only will you get better results now, you'll learn how to train and eat so that you get better results later on when you do decide to use.
 
I like the way the cycle looks, primo,test E and Tren will keep you gaining good lean mass, I would add maybe some Anavar,
 
No offense bro but you're doing this wrong.

You are 160lbs. 20lbs of that is fat. And your thinking 500mg of primo is going to make some gains on a 2000 calorie diet fasting for 16 hours a day?

Do yourself a favor put down the needles and pick up a book called CHAMPIONSHIP BODYBUILDING by CHRIS ACETO. Also SKIP LACOUR has a good nutrition book called BODYBUILDING NUTRITION and a good training book called PACKING ON MUSCLE. Those three books will show you step by step how to transform your body over the next few years.

In a nutshell. There are no secrets.

6 meals spread through the day.
50g protein per meal.
50g carbs per meal.
10g fat per meal but try to keep this lower.

Mon: Chins. Barbell Rows. One Arm Rows. Shrugs
Tues: Bench Press. Incline Press. Dips. Abs Crunch. Leg Raises.
Wed: Squats. Leg Press. Lunges. Seated Calves. Std Calves.
Thurs: Bar Curls. DB Curls. Lying Tri Extensions. Seated Tri Ext.
Fri: Std Barbell Press. Seated DB Press. Laterals. Rear Delt Fly.
3 sets of 6-8 reps.
Look into MaxOT training and cardio.

Bottom line be consistent. Do this for 1 year don't miss a day or a meal then try 10 weeks of testosterone @ 500mg/wk.

You can hire all the construction workers you want but without materials you aren't going to build anything. Same with muscles. You can pop pills and put yourself in an anabolic environment prime for growth but if your eating like a bird you don't have any material to grow.
 
Last edited:
^ that's not terrible advice.
i'd say hire a trainer. some on here are very reasonable and you will save yourself years of struggle.
I think I was 5'7" in middle school and weighed 165... I grew taller but at that weight and pre pubescent I had your stats. I think you are selling yourself short on what you are capable of natty. but I kno I kno.. juice sounds "fun"

i'd def change your diet.
-JS
 
ok. Great input.

Thank you for all of the advice.

So - what you are saying is that the leangains diet is crap and that there is no way that such diet would ever work to gain muscle while leaning out?

Is that what I am hearing?

honestly regarding my BF % - I just threw a number out there... I am not even sure my self... but I could definitely post a picture or something and you can judge for yourselves.
 
Last edited:
David,

How long have you been training, mate?

And how many kg do you want to ultimately gain, what's your ideal body type, etc.?

This is important, because different people have different goals in mind. Some want to get an aesthetic look (Zyzz's, for example), whereas others prefer the classic bodybuilder look, and some people like the mass monster look.

Knowing exactly what your goal is is important, because, your diet plan, training routine, and cycles, etc., will be tailored according to the look you're trying to achieve.

For example, let's say you're trying to go for an aesthetic look, you would want to have some calorie surplus in order to gain mass, but you would not want to eat massive amount of food and gobble down tons of calories, because even if you're an ectomorph, eating large quantity of food would result in your stomach bulging out (and I'm not even talking about HGH/insulin gut).
 
You'll always get more help around here if you use Imperial...

I'd postpone this cycle until you are 8-10% bf and around 90kg. Not that skinny people shouldn't cycle, but it's better when you squeeze every pound of muscle out of you naturally before juicing.

Found this on Bodybuilding.com:

Gary Brunner
gary-brunner-after.jpg


AGE 40
HEIGHT 6'0"
WEIGHT 190 lbs
BODY FAT 8%

Mate... if David can get to 190 lbs at 8% body fat like you suggested, he would not need help! **broken link removed**

No offense, but your numbers aren't realistic at all.
 
you can certainly gain muscle while staying lean. sometimes while even getting lean. its about diet and drugs and possibly genetics but mainly diet and drugs to get that accomplished. i'd hire someone that has experience helping people do that.
no more wondering no more trying diet after diet no more guessing about foods etc., hire a trainer and get light years ahead of what you would do on your own.
-JS
 
Last edited:
No offense, but your numbers aren't realistic at all.

I was 195lb, 10%bf, 5'10", totally natural when I was 18yo.

Not too far from that right now. Been on TRT only since 2008, when I did my last cycle of 500mg test/600mg EQ.
 
David,

How long have you been training, mate?

And how many kg do you want to ultimately gain, what's your ideal body type, etc.?

This is important, because different people have different goals in mind. Some want to get an aesthetic look (Zyzz's, for example), whereas others prefer the classic bodybuilder look, and some people like the mass monster look.

Knowing exactly what your goal is is important, because, your diet plan, training routine, and cycles, etc., will be tailored according to the look you're trying to achieve.

For example, let's say you're trying to go for an aesthetic look, you would want to have some calorie surplus in order to gain mass, but you would not want to eat massive amount of food and gobble down tons of calories, because even if you're an ectomorph, eating large quantity of food would result in your stomach bulging out (and I'm not even talking about HGH/insulin gut).


I have been training for at least 7 - 8 years on and off with maybe a few years in there not so disciplined.


Honestly I am not looking for that classic bodybuilding look.. zyzz is actually a decent example of what I am going for but much smaller...


Here is a photo of me (attached) - now. Not sure how much BF % that is... ??

I just want to lean out a bit and maybe add 10 lbs - slowly - That is why I want primo + less sides.
 

Attachments

  • front-flex.jpg
    front-flex.jpg
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No offense bro but you're doing this wrong.

You are 160lbs. 20lbs of that is fat. And your thinking 500mg of primo is going to make some gains on a 2000 calorie diet fasting for 16 hours a day?

Do yourself a favor put down the needles and pick up a book called CHAMPIONSHIP BODYBUILDING by CHRIS ACETO. Also SKIP LACOUR has a good nutrition book called BODYBUILDING NUTRITION and a good training book called PACKING ON MUSCLE. Those three books will show you step by step how to transform your body over the next few years.

In a nutshell. There are no secrets.

6 meals spread through the day.
50g protein per meal.
50g carbs per meal.
10g fat per meal but try to keep this lower.

Mon: Chins. Barbell Rows. One Arm Rows. Shrugs
Tues: Bench Press. Incline Press. Dips. Abs Crunch. Leg Raises.
Wed: Squats. Leg Press. Lunges. Seated Calves. Std Calves.
Thurs: Bar Curls. DB Curls. Lying Tri Extensions. Seated Tri Ext.
Fri: Std Barbell Press. Seated DB Press. Laterals. Rear Delt Fly.
3 sets of 6-8 reps.
Look into MaxOT training and cardio.

Bottom line be consistent. Do this for 1 year don't miss a day or a meal then try 10 weeks of testosterone @ 500mg/wk.

You can hire all the construction workers you want but without materials you aren't going to build anything. Same with muscles. You can pop pills and put yourself in an anabolic environment prime for growth but if your eating like a bird you don't have any material to grow.

Wow that simple 3 books is all u need to learn how to get the body u want:rolleyes:

SO IN A NUTSHELL he don't need the books anymore all he needs to do is follow the diet and workout protocol u outlined for him and he is good to go:confused::rolleyes:
 
Last edited:
I have been training for at least 7 - 8 years on and off with maybe a few years in there not so disciplined.


Honestly I am not looking for that classic bodybuilding look.. zyzz is actually a decent example of what I am going for but much smaller...


Here is a photo of me (attached) - now. Not sure how much BF % that is... ??

I just want to lean out a bit and maybe add 10 lbs - slowly - That is why I want primo + less sides.
So you want to look like that " Zyzzz " dude but smaller? If I remember right , from the pics I've seen of him he wasn't big at all!

I would take the advise if JS! He said pretty much everything I would of! Hire yourself a good coach either from the board or locally in your area! Get your nutrition down and you will get better results in the next few months doing that then you would jumping on a cycle with your current nutrition!



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free
 
yeah ok... thanks for the input.

I will definitely do that.

Ok. Lets say that I hire a coach and get my diet and everything down.

I need input on my cycle ...

Should I add tren? How much?

How is my PCT ? Any other inputs ?
 
yeah ok... thanks for the input.

I will definitely do that.

Ok. Lets say that I hire a coach and get my diet and everything down.

I need input on my cycle ...

Should I add tren? How much?

How is my PCT ? Any other inputs ?

See, this is the problem and why I recommended hiring a coach rather than reading some books and trying to figure things out for yourself. You think you know what you're doing, but the truth is you don't. You think you know better, that you need drugs to make progress, and that somehow doing intermittent fasting while on a calorie deficit plus some "magical" cycle is going to help you add muscle while leaning out.

You need to take yourself out of the equation. You need someone who actually knows what he's doing to take out all the guesswork and tell you exactly what to do.

It sounds like money isn't an issue, so hire a coach. You can ask him about drugs, but my guess is that a good coach will have you making the kind of progress you're looking for without the need for drugs at this point.
 

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