lean mass cycle critique

[david-L]

Lots of ways to skin that cat. ^ IME, Test P (or any) NPP, Masteron approximates Primobolan...only, ya get a lot stronger on that combo. The cost of all 3 though may be the same as Primobolan alone.

Seems you're set on a cycle and it's not new to you, OP, but one more vote here for Natty.

Think of it this way, you only want 10lbs, but ya get to keep the gains after and don't have to stay on forever like most here (including me).

Thank you for your input.
Care to give an example of a cycle running the Test P, NPP, Mast ?



Quick question : At what point will I have to "stay on" forever ? (when my natty test no longer will reach "normal" levels ? ) When would that occur - and why would it occur ? Is it inevitable ? It sounds to me that it is most likely due to too many cycles without proper PCT and off time between each .. or maybe an age thing ... maybe a combination of both ...

Buttman

I have used Tren E but only in a stack with Tren A and Sustanon (TRT dose).

The stack was:
Tren Ace 0.5 ml x 2 = 100mg
Tren E 0.5 ml x 2 = 100mg
Sustanon 0.25ml x 1 = 50mg

Based on my training log, I had the best results in terms of strength gain (and the 2nd best results when it comes to fat loss) when I stacked Tren A with Tren E. I never got the same results when I used Tren A alone.

So, since you prefer less pinning, I would recommend stacking Tren A and Tren E this way.

If this sounds like something you would want to go with (and your preferred brand seems to be British Dragon), you might want to look into their Tri-Tren mix (Tri-Trenabol 150).

Tren A 50mg
Tren E 50mg
Tren Hex 50mg
Total: 150mg/ml

Let me know what you think.

Great idea for a cycle.

Thanks buttman ... looks like it might be something I could run.

So for how long would you suggest that I run the Tri-Tren with a trt dose of Test ?

Care to provide an example ?

FartJohnson

You look good!

I would just do 1ml of test a week and stay on for a couple years. Enhanced HRT, if you will.

It's cheap, safe, low/no sides, effective. Looks like you just want to thicken up a bit, and this will do that. No need for the fancy compounds.

This will make the most of your work in the gym, and retain muscle mass even on a severe calorie deficit. Stay lean, and forget about cycling. Do a low dose for a longer time. Safer and more effective than the "cycle" approach. Muscle takes a long time to build, even on gear.

Thanks but I don't think that I want to stay on for a "longer time". Why would it be safer? How long would it take for me to have my natty levels back to a "normal" range if I stayed on for a long time?

 

[FartJohnson]

It's the constant yo-yo of shutting your body down and starting it back up that I feel is unhealthy. Do what you want, but if you do a cycle, you'll eventually return to your natural limit no matter how good your pct.

Tren, and other synthetic hormones are far more damaging than a little bit of test. And they'll shut you down harder. Nobody can say how long it'll take to recover your natural production, that's individual and a factor of your age

 

[david-L]

My last cycle - I recovered as quickly as I was on - about 10 -12 weeks but didn't recover fully until maybe week 16 - 20.

What are your thoughts on the classical tri-blend

Test Prop
Tren Ace
Mast

pinn 3 x week or EOD.

Suggested dosages ?

 

[Buttman3]

Great idea for a cycle.

Thanks buttman ... looks like it might be something I could run.

So for how long would you suggest that I run the Tri-Tren with a trt dose of Test ?

Care to provide an example ?

Yeah mate.

Dosage: Tri-Tren 150mg/week, Test 100mg/week.

Based on Google search, the most common starting Tren dosage is 50mg eod, so it's around 150-200mg/week. My first Tren cycle, I started with 50mg x 3 a week and gained 10lbs in 8 weeks, so 150mg/week is a reasonably low dosage yet still gives great results.

Cycle duration: from 4-8 weeks.

I have seen starting Tren cycles ranging from 4-8 weeks. The differences in cycle length seem to do with how well each person can tolerate being on Tren. My first Tren cycle was 8 weeks as mentioned. So, for your cycle duration, you can try 4 weeks, and if everything is well, you can go for another 4 weeks, or come off of Tri-Tren and continue your Test to finish off the cycle.

Example:

Week 1-4
Tri-Tren 0.5 ml x 2 = 150mg
Test 0.2 ml x 2 = 100mg


Option A: Continue Tri-Tren
Week 5-8
Tri-Tren 0.5 ml x 2 = 150mg
Test 0.2 ml x 2 = 100mg

or

Option B: Come off Tri-Tren, increase Test to finish
Week 5-8
Test 0.75 ml x 2 = 375mg
(your previous cycle dosage)
​

 

[Buttman3]

My last cycle - I recovered as quickly as I was on - about 10 -12 weeks but didn't recover fully until maybe week 16 - 20.

What are your thoughts on the classical tri-blend

Test Prop
Tren Ace
Mast

pinn 3 x week or EOD.

Suggested dosages ?

If you don't like pinning, then this short-esters blend can work, too.

I haven't done the tri-blend cycle you mentioned, so I don't have any suggestions for dosage, but I have ran the following experimental stack that contained the tri-blend for 6 weeks and gained around 4lbs:

Tren A / 120mg
Tren E / 100mg
Sus / 150mg
Test P / 100mg
Deca / 50mg
Mast / 50mg

I don't remember how lean I got from this cycle. I had an elbow injury during this time and couldn't train at 100%. Without the injury, I think my weight gain could have been even better.

Regarding pinning frequency, eod injection means you will get 4 shots, so it should be better than pinning 3x a week.

 

[Buttman3]

^ I meant to say "If you don't mind pinning"

 

[david-L]

great stuff Buttman!

Thanks!

I have gone through all of the suggestions and came up with this :


Going to run a mix-blend of - Each ml contains: (it's cheaper than buying everything separate)

Trenbolone Acetate 75mg,
Drostanolone Propionate 100mg,
Testosterone Phenylpropionate 75mg.
• 10ml vial. • 250mg/ml.

I don't like that the Test P is as high as the tren (I would have preferred a lower Test .. 2:1 ratio - tren being higher)

Will it be really bad if I run it at a 1:1 ratio (as the mix-blend suggests) ?

Anyways :

Week 1-10 : Arimidex = 0.5 E3D (low dosage)
Week 2-10 : Caber = 0.5 / W

Week 1-10 : Master = 400 mg / W (100 eod)
Week 1-10 : Tren A = 300 mg / W ( 75 eod)
Week 1-11 : Test P = 300 mg / W ( 75 eod)

Running the test solo 1 week longer /getting some extra test just for that.

Week 1-11 : HCG = 500 iu / W

PCT

Dr Scally suggests Blasting HCG for 2 weeks (if on prop) after last T shot (while T is declining) before running PCT. So ...

Week 12 - 14 : HCG = 1500 iu / W

Week 14 - 18 : Clomid = 100/50/50/25 mg

Suggestions ?

 

[Buttman3]

Going to run a mix-blend of - Each ml contains: (it's cheaper than buying everything separate)

Trenbolone Acetate 75mg,
Drostanolone Propionate 100mg,
Testosterone Phenylpropionate 75mg.
• 10ml vial. • 250mg/ml.

I don't like that the Test P is as high as the tren (I would have preferred a lower Test .. 2:1 ratio - tren being higher)

Will it be really bad if I run it at a 1:1 ratio (as the mix-blend suggests) ?

Based on my previous cycles, as well as my current cycle, I'd say you will more likely experience side effects at a 1:1 ratio, especially when the Test gets to around 300mg.

In my case, the side effect was insomnia. The other side effects such as vivid dreams and night sweats seemed to happen at any dose, with or without Test. Aggression seemed to be intensified with Test.

Anyway, at around 300mg of Test per week, I experienced mild insomnia - difficulty going back to sleep once woken up during sleep. Wearing a sleeping mask (or keeping the room dark) seemed to help the most.

Higher than 300mg of Test per week, I experienced severe insomnia - couldn't fall asleep. The effects happened within 3 hours after a pinning, and it was gone the next night. (But one sleepless night was pretty bad.)

Anyways :

Week 1-10 : Arimidex = 0.5 E3D (low dosage)
Week 2-10 : Caber = 0.5 / W

Week 1-10 : Master = 400 mg / W (100 eod)
Week 1-10 : Tren A = 300 mg / W ( 75 eod)
Week 1-11 : Test P = 300 mg / W ( 75 eod)

Mate, if you're going with this stack, I would recommend starting at 0.75ml instead of 1ml for the first 2 weeks, so that you can learn how your body reacts to the Tren and minimize/control potential side effects:

0.75ml (Master 75mg, Tren A 56mg, Test P 56mg)

Week 1-2 : Master = 300 mg / W (75 eod)
Week 1-2 : Tren A = 225 mg / W ( 56 eod)
Week 1-2 : Test P = 225 mg / W ( 56 eod)

If everything is well after 2 weeks, the dose can be bumped up to 1ml.

Running the test solo 1 week longer /getting some extra test just for that.

Week 1-11 : HCG = 500 iu / W

Looks good here mate.

For the HCG, I would recommend splitting the 500iu into 2 x 250iu doses (if you haven't already done so).

There was a study done, and they found that HCG in smaller, split doses yielded better results:

1. Test level stayed high longer
2. Less side effects (lower increase of Estradiol and 17-Hydroxyprogesterone)

(source: Differential effect of single high d... [J Clin Endocrinol Metab. 1984] - PubMed - NCBI)

"Administration of 1500 IU hCG in five divided doses of 300 IU daily increased the mean plasma T levels to peak value of 2.1 +/- 0.2 X baseline at 5 days and the levels remained elevated thereafter. The response of T as reflected by the area under the curve was almost twice as great as in the single dose study...

... no accumulation of 17-OHP [17-Hydroxyprogesterone] over T occurred...

... The initial E2 peak was absent in the divided dose protocol...
"
​

PCT

Dr Scally suggests Blasting HCG for 2 weeks (if on prop) after last T shot (while T is declining) before running PCT. So ...

Week 12 - 14 : HCG = 1500 iu / W

Week 14 - 18 : Clomid = 100/50/50/25 mg

Suggestions ?

Based on the results of the above research article, it's more beneficial to split up the HCG into smaller doses instead of one big dose, so my suggestion would be to split the HCG into 3 x 500iu doses.

Week 12 - 14 : HCG = 1500 iu / W (3 x 500iu)

Also, the article mentioned that Estradiol will get elevated during HCG usage, and it will take about 7 days after stopping HCG for it to go back down. Therefore, it makes sense to me that you would want to keep running your Arimidex while you're blasting 1500iu of HCG to keep the Estradiol in check.

Come to think of it, instead of stopping your Arimidex at week 11, why not keep running your Arimidex until you finish with your HCG blast?

Regarding the clomid, I don't have much suggestion, other than to say that I felt like crap on Clomid. It made me felt extremely tired, prone to getting motion sickness, made me lost weight, and I believe it gave me serious acne breakouts.

If you have done clomid for PCT before and are ok with the side effects, then please disregard what I said. But if you have never used Clomid before, I suggest you should at least watch out for its nasty side effects. If you can't tolerate Clomid, then it's better to drop it and use your Nolvadex (40/20/20/etc... ) instead.

Cheers .

 

[GS]

Damn things sure are scientific.:banghead:
Eat train and pop a few cs of test-e or suspension and go from there.
That is just my own OPINION .

 

[Buttman3]

Sorry for the long post above. I had to back up what I was saying with some research.

Anyway, to recap:

Week 1-11 : Arimidex = 0.5 E3D (low dosage)
Week 2-10 : Caber = 0.5 / W

(0.75 ml per pinning)
Week 1-2 : Master = 300 mg / W (75 eod)
Week 1-2 : Tren A = 225 mg / W (56 eod)
Week 1-2 : Test P = 225 mg / W (56 eod)

(1 ml per pinning)
Week 3-10 : Master = 400 mg / W (100 eod)
Week 3-10 : Tren A = 300 mg / W ( 75 eod)
Week 3-11 : Test P = 300 mg / W ( 75 eod)

Week 1-11 : HCG = 500 iu / W (2 x 250iu)
---------

PCT

Week 12-14 : Arimidex = 0.5 E3D (low dosage)
Week 12-14 : HCG = 1500 iu / W (3 x 500iu)

Week 14-18 : Clomid = 100/50/50/25 mg, OR Nolvadex 40/20/20/20 mg

 

[david-L]

amazing post buttman!

Thanks a lot !!!

Yes I forgot to mention that I was going to pin the hcg 250 x 2 during cycle and 3x 500 while blasting You are most likely right about the clomid ... I will change that to Nolva

It would cost me maybe 100-200 $ more to run everything separate instead of in a mix blend .. that way I would be able to run a lower test .. I wonder if that is worth it .. I will have to think about it.. sleepless nights are not fun.

once again buttman! great stuff! thank you sir!!:headbang:

 

[david-L]

amazing post buttman!

Thanks a lot !!!

Yes I forgot to mention that I was going to pin the hcg 250 x 2 during cycle and 3x 500 while blasting You are most likely right about the clomid ... I will change that to Nolva

It would cost me maybe 100-200 $ more to run everything separate instead of in a mix blend .. that way I would be able to run a lower test .. I wonder if that is worth it .. I will have to think about it.. sleepless nights are not fun.

once again buttman! great stuff! thank you sir!!:headbang:

So I came up with the idea of instead of buying everything separately
I could get 1 bottle of tren and Mast extra (and I have a bit of test P laying around already) and buy 1 less bottle of the mixblend and do this .

---------------------------------------------------



Week 1-11 : Arimidex = 0.5 E3D (low dosage)
Week 2-10 : Caber = 0.5 / W


(0.25 ml per pinning of separate bottle)

Week 1-2 : Master = 100 mg / W (25 eod) (separate bottle)
Week 1-2 : Tren A = 75 mg / W (18.75 eod) (separate bottle)

(0.50 ml per pinning of mixblend)

Week 1-2 : Master = 200 mg / W (50 eod)
Week 1-2 : Tren A = 150 mg / W (37.5 eod)
Week 1-2 : Test P = 150 mg / W (37.5 eod)


(0.25 ml per pinning of separate bottle)

Week 3-10 : Master = 100 mg / W (25 eod) (separate bottle)
Week 3-10 : Tren A = 75 mg / W (18.75 eod) (separate bottle)

(0.75 ml per pinning of mixblend)
Week 3-10 : Master = 300 mg / W (75 eod)
Week 3-10 : Tren A = 225 mg / W (56 eod)
Week 3-10 : Test P = 225 mg / W (56 eod)

(0.5 ml per pinning of separate bottle test p)

Week 11 : Test P = 200 mg / W (50 eod) (separate bottle)


Week 1-11 : HCG = 500 iu / W (2 x 250iu)
---------

PCT

Week 12-14 : Arimidex = 0.5 E3D (low dosage)
Week 12-14 : HCG = 1500 iu / W (3 x 500iu)

Week 14-18 : Clomid = 100/50/50/25 mg, OR Nolvadex 40/20/20/20 mg


-------------

This way the total dosage would be :

Week 1-2 :
Mast : 300 mg / w
Tren : 225 mg / w
Test : 150 mg /w

Week 3-10 :
Mast : 400 mg / w
Tren : 300 mg / w
Test : 225 mg/ w

week 11 :
Test : 200 mg / w

So I would essentially lower the test dosage and potentially minimize sides.

Maybe it seems like a lot of work just to lower the test ... this way I can control the dosage better anyway

 

[david-L]

So I came up with the idea of instead of buying everything separately
I could get 1 bottle of tren and Mast extra (and I have a bit of test P laying around already) and buy 1 less bottle of the mixblend and do this .

---------------------------------------------------



Week 1-11 : Arimidex = 0.5 E3D (low dosage)
Week 2-10 : Caber = 0.5 / W


(0.25 ml per pinning of separate bottle)

Week 1-2 : Master = 100 mg / W (25 eod) (separate bottle)
Week 1-2 : Tren A = 75 mg / W (18.75 eod) (separate bottle)

(0.50 ml per pinning of mixblend)

Week 1-2 : Master = 200 mg / W (50 eod)
Week 1-2 : Tren A = 150 mg / W (37.5 eod)
Week 1-2 : Test P = 150 mg / W (37.5 eod)


(0.25 ml per pinning of separate bottle)

Week 3-10 : Master = 100 mg / W (25 eod) (separate bottle)
Week 3-10 : Tren A = 75 mg / W (18.75 eod) (separate bottle)

(0.75 ml per pinning of mixblend)
Week 3-10 : Master = 300 mg / W (75 eod)
Week 3-10 : Tren A = 225 mg / W (56 eod)
Week 3-10 : Test P = 225 mg / W (56 eod)

(0.5 ml per pinning of separate bottle test p)

Week 11 : Test P = 200 mg / W (50 eod) (separate bottle)


Week 1-11 : HCG = 500 iu / W (2 x 250iu)
---------

PCT

Week 12-14 : Arimidex = 0.5 E3D (low dosage)
Week 12-14 : HCG = 1500 iu / W (3 x 500iu)

Week 14-18 : Clomid = 100/50/50/25 mg, OR Nolvadex 40/20/20/20 mg


-------------

This way the total dosage would be :

Week 1-2 :
Mast : 300 mg / w
Tren : 225 mg / w
Test : 150 mg /w

Week 3-10 :
Mast : 400 mg / w
Tren : 300 mg / w
Test : 225 mg/ w

week 11 :
Test : 200 mg / w

So I would essentially lower the test dosage and potentially minimize sides.

Maybe it seems like a lot of work just to lower the test ... this way I can control the dosage better anyway

Lol .. I really can't decide.. can I ?

The price would be the same if I buy less "mixed-blend" bottles .. so instead of 5 I only buy 2.

and buy 2 bottles of mast and 2 of tren.

This way I can run the cycle for 12 weeks instead of 10 for the same price plus I can run it with 150 mg of test during the entire cycle.


(0.25 ml per pinning of separate bottle)

Week 1-3 : Master = 100 mg / W (25 eod) (separate bottle)
Week 1-3 : Tren A = 75 mg / W (18.75 eod) (separate bottle)

(0.50 ml per pinning of mixblend) (total 2 bottles = 20 ml of mixblend)

Week 1-10 : Master = 200 mg / W (50 eod)
Week 1-10 : Tren A = 150 mg / W (37.5 eod)
Week 1-10 : Test P = 150 mg / W (37.5 eod)

(0.5 ml per pinning of separate bottle)

Week 4-10 : Master = 200 mg / W (50 eod) (separate bottle)
Week 4-10 : Tren A = 150 mg / W (37.5 eod) (separate bottle)


(1 ml per pinning of separate bottle)

Week 11 : Master = 400 mg / W (50 eod) (separate bottle)
Week 11 : Tren A = 300 mg / W (37.5 eod) (separate bottle)

(0.375 ml per pinning of separate bottle test p)
Week 11-12 : Test P = 150 mg / W (37.5 eod) (separate bottle)


number of bottles :

2 bottles of mixblend = 20 ml total

2 bottles of Tren = 20 ml total

2 bottles of Mast = 20 ml total

and the 5 ml of Test P I already have laying around.

all of this so that I can run lower Test .. LOL that is a lot of hard work to minimize sides

 

[Buttman3]

amazing post buttman!

Thanks a lot !!!

Yes I forgot to mention that I was going to pin the hcg 250 x 2 during cycle and 3x 500 while blasting You are most likely right about the clomid ... I will change that to Nolva

It would cost me maybe 100-200 $ more to run everything separate instead of in a mix blend .. that way I would be able to run a lower test .. I wonder if that is worth it .. I will have to think about it.. sleepless nights are not fun.

once again buttman! great stuff! thank you sir!!:headbang:

You're welcome, mate .

About the mix blend vs. running everything separately: The mix blend seems more convenient for pinning because of a smaller injection volume.

But since you're trying to keep the Test lower than Tren, what I think you can do is get a bottle or two of Tren A in addition to the mix blend.

Here is an example:

Week 1-2

(Mix blend: 0.75 ml)
(Tren A 100: 0.125 ml)

Master = 300 mg / W (75 eod)
Tren A = 275 mg / W (56 + 12.5 eod)
Test P = 225 mg / W (56 eod)


Week 3-10

(Mix blend: 0.75 ml)
(Tren A 100: 0.25 ml)

Master = 300 mg / W (75 eod)
Tren A = 325 mg / W (56 + 25 eod)
Test P = 225 mg / W (56 eod)

 

[Buttman3]

Looks fantastic! Nicely done with the mixing of different bottles, mate .

So I came up with the idea of instead of buying everything separately
I could get 1 bottle of tren and Mast extra (and I have a bit of test P laying around already) and buy 1 less bottle of the mixblend and do this .

---------------------------------------------------



Week 1-11 : Arimidex = 0.5 E3D (low dosage)
Week 2-10 : Caber = 0.5 / W


(0.25 ml per pinning of separate bottle)

Week 1-2 : Master = 100 mg / W (25 eod) (separate bottle)
Week 1-2 : Tren A = 75 mg / W (18.75 eod) (separate bottle)

(0.50 ml per pinning of mixblend)

Week 1-2 : Master = 200 mg / W (50 eod)
Week 1-2 : Tren A = 150 mg / W (37.5 eod)
Week 1-2 : Test P = 150 mg / W (37.5 eod)


(0.25 ml per pinning of separate bottle)

Week 3-10 : Master = 100 mg / W (25 eod) (separate bottle)
Week 3-10 : Tren A = 75 mg / W (18.75 eod) (separate bottle)

(0.75 ml per pinning of mixblend)
Week 3-10 : Master = 300 mg / W (75 eod)
Week 3-10 : Tren A = 225 mg / W (56 eod)
Week 3-10 : Test P = 225 mg / W (56 eod)

(0.5 ml per pinning of separate bottle test p)

Week 11 : Test P = 200 mg / W (50 eod) (separate bottle)


Week 1-11 : HCG = 500 iu / W (2 x 250iu)
---------

PCT

Week 12-14 : Arimidex = 0.5 E3D (low dosage)
Week 12-14 : HCG = 1500 iu / W (3 x 500iu)

Week 14-18 : Clomid = 100/50/50/25 mg, OR Nolvadex 40/20/20/20 mg


-------------

This way the total dosage would be :

Week 1-2 :
Mast : 300 mg / w
Tren : 225 mg / w
Test : 150 mg /w

Week 3-10 :
Mast : 400 mg / w
Tren : 300 mg / w
Test : 225 mg/ w

week 11 :
Test : 200 mg / w

So I would essentially lower the test dosage and potentially minimize sides.

Maybe it seems like a lot of work just to lower the test ... this way I can control the dosage better anyway

 

[Buttman3]

LOL, it looks like you have outdone yourself with this combo .

Nice job!

Lol .. I really can't decide.. can I ?

The price would be the same if I buy less "mixed-blend" bottles .. so instead of 5 I only buy 2.

and buy 2 bottles of mast and 2 of tren.

This way I can run the cycle for 12 weeks instead of 10 for the same price plus I can run it with 150 mg of test during the entire cycle.


(0.25 ml per pinning of separate bottle)

Week 1-3 : Master = 100 mg / W (25 eod) (separate bottle)
Week 1-3 : Tren A = 75 mg / W (18.75 eod) (separate bottle)

(0.50 ml per pinning of mixblend) (total 2 bottles = 20 ml of mixblend)

Week 1-10 : Master = 200 mg / W (50 eod)
Week 1-10 : Tren A = 150 mg / W (37.5 eod)
Week 1-10 : Test P = 150 mg / W (37.5 eod)

(0.5 ml per pinning of separate bottle)

Week 4-10 : Master = 200 mg / W (50 eod) (separate bottle)
Week 4-10 : Tren A = 150 mg / W (37.5 eod) (separate bottle)


(1 ml per pinning of separate bottle)

Week 11 : Master = 400 mg / W (50 eod) (separate bottle)
Week 11 : Tren A = 300 mg / W (37.5 eod) (separate bottle)

(0.375 ml per pinning of separate bottle test p)
Week 11-12 : Test P = 150 mg / W (37.5 eod) (separate bottle)


number of bottles :

2 bottles of mixblend = 20 ml total

2 bottles of Tren = 20 ml total

2 bottles of Mast = 20 ml total

and the 5 ml of Test P I already have laying around.

all of this so that I can run lower Test .. LOL that is a lot of hard work to minimize sides

 

[david-L]

haha thanks man! Couldn't have done it without your help!:headbang:

 

[Ehren]

Quick question : At what point will I have to "stay on" forever ? (when my natty test no longer will reach "normal" levels ? ) When would that occur - and why would it occur ? Is it inevitable ? It sounds to me that it is most likely due to too many cycles without proper PCT and off time between each .. or maybe an age thing ... maybe a combination of both ...

Well, I mean when you accumulate an amount of muscle that your natty level will not support, you "have to" stay on to keep it. Versus doing it naturally, you don't need anything AAS-wise, to keep it.

That said, I believe that a certain kind of training (heavy, progressive) will allow you to maintain a good bit of the muscle you've acquired over time, even with less AAS or natural levels. That kind of training seems to change your set-point. i.e. there are a lot of guys who used to gear-up that don't now or use less and are still bigger than they would be naturally.

BTW, I read through this and about hCG: I'd do it as the article says, or even lower, to 250iu x 5

Read Swayle's old protocol (and his research) and you'll see that doses over 300iu are where E2 starts to rise meaningfully. I think this is why the 1500iu bolus versus the 300 x 5 makes a difference.

And throw in a healthy dose of NAC to keep the hCG from desensitizing your Leydig cells. Once they're dead, they don't come back.

It's the constant yo-yo of shutting your body down and starting it back up that I feel is unhealthy. Do what you want, but if you do a cycle, you'll eventually return to your natural limit no matter how good your pct.

Tren, and other synthetic hormones are far more damaging than a little bit of test. And they'll shut you down harder. Nobody can say how long it'll take to recover your natural production, that's individual and a factor of your age

Yep, pretty much.

 

[david-L]

Hi,

Sorry to revive this old thread but thought that it was relevant to this cycle since I'm on it doing my fifth week.

Tren A 75 - 0,5 eod = 150mg / w
Test p 100 - 0,25 eod = 100 mg/ w
Mast 100 - 0,5 eod = 200 mg / w
Mixblend (75 test p, 75 tren a, 100 mast) - 0,5 eod = 150 testp, 150 tren, 200 mast

Weekly totals :

Master = 400 mg / W
Tren A = 300 mg / W
Test P = 250 mg / W

Started off by running

anastrozole 1mg split into half tab 0,5 monday and thursday.

Cabergoline 0,5 split into two monday thursday (0,25)

Hcg 250 iu x monday and thursday

Nac, ala, d vitamin, zma, omega 3 daily.

ive put on at least 5-8 lbs on the scale and daily increases of strenght ... My mind cant comprehend how fast I am getting stronger etc... Night sweats, no other sides except a little bit of shortness of breath while doing cardio and some body temp being higher rhan usual.


First week or two was fine but on my third and fourth week I started noticing that I couldnt keep it up and it started going soft and I had problem cumming.
So i lowered the arimidex thinking i had ran my e2 to the ground but it got worse and I am suffering from ED issues, no sex drive so l suspect that it might be the other way around - high e2 ...maybe I should increase the arimidex dosage and the caber?


I live in a country where I can't just go and get bloodwork done otherwise I would have done that.

Should I increase the tren? Lower the Test?

Any ideas?

 

[david-L]

I'll just start a new thread - easier to get replies

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...mast-libido-issues-no-bloodwork-possible.html