Leg extensions AND squats?

[osiris]

The true answer to your question can be, Are your legs growing?
If they are, then something is working and ride that out till it doesnt and look at changing something.

Personally, before i do legs i normally do leg extensions. I go fairly heavy on them, for my one work set, and they might affect the weight that i use on squats but my legs are not suffering from it in the size department.

just my humble opinion.

 

[ManoftheWorld]

different strokes for different folks... as many said before me if you notice gains from it then keep doing it, any pain discomfort etc from added stress on joints then stop.Me personally I recently started doing that as a pre exhaustive method after reading about Dorian Yates doing it back in the day so figure why not experiment.. I've let it serve as a motivational tool as well since I know my other lifts in workout may be less afterwards so I'll let it piss me off and motivate me that much more to power through it and hit those previous lifts... either way I am getting something from it

 

[richiec]

You are assuming its all the leg extensions. Lets look at what is wrong with them from a biomechanical standpoint.

The ACL is loaded via Tibiofemoral forces throughout the entire ROM. This is not really good for knee health. They also increase lateral patellar pull which = bad since the vast majority of people are already laterally very tight. They also increase rectus femoris activity when the rectus femoris is already such an overworked muscle and a cause of a lot of knee pain for a lot of lifters it doesn't need extra work.. \

Another interesting thing about leg extentions is that research shows they delay the firing of the VMO. This is very bad for knee health, since VMO recruitment and rapid firing is very important in knee health.

Theres more but I'll just leave this here. The majority of top strength coaches in the world will never have an athlete or olympic lifter ever touch a leg ext machine. Theres no correlation to leg extensions increasing squat power, considering squats are mainly glute/ham/hip strength.

So, what do you recommend for quads? Doing partial squats puts an emphasis on your quads, you can do variations to target your quads

 

[witefall]

I think that once you get legs the size of Cutler, then you could probably do a lot of pre-exh stuff. But until then, I think the front and back squat are where the mass is built.

 

[TheOtherOne55]

Properly performed, which they seldom if ever are now-a-days,
using leg extensions immediately prior to squats could be a god-
send, depending on how you are wired.

That sequence of exercises is capable of making far greater inroads
and will stimulate your quads in a very safe and effective fashion
without breaking your back in the meantime or subjecting it to
potentially dangerous loads. The pump / burn and the resulting
growth if you have it in you, must be experienced to be believed.
And for those people who have trouble standing up after a set of
squats . . . well . . . you will have problems laying down after doing
these.

But you have to know how to do them, you can’t over-do them,
and you must check your ego at the door. (Not many people are
capable of all three of these things.)



If this means anything to you . . . I wish you could have seen
a guy I used to train with eons ago. Never did ANYTHING, ever
for his legs except leg extensions, and he did more sets of them
than I cared to count. And he had huge, thick, cut, vascular
quads. Probably the best quads I had seen on a non-Pro.

So while they might not “work” for everybody, they sure as hell
worked for him.

Alfresco, i love your posts man. you seriously seem like one of the most intelligent posters on this board and always have a way of explaining something in layman's terms that connects with lots of readers on here.
:headbang:


I personally used to do extensions (light sets) just to get my knees warmed up for squats. If i went right into squats, the first couple sets were painful for me. But recently i have switched up to more warmup sets of squats first then break into a superset of extensions and leg curls at the end of my workout just to get the blood flowing.

simple question as multiple people have stated: Are your legs growing? Have your weights progressed? assess this then make a decision

 

[msforr75]

Been lifting for about 2 decades. I found early on that single point extension exercises really trash my joints. I don't touch leg extension or and tricep extension. Pressing movements only seem to be the most effective and safe for legs and tris. Just my opinion anyway.

 

[Pericles]

So, what do you recommend for quads? Doing partial squats puts an emphasis on your quads, you can do variations to target your quads

You can't really TARGET your quads BUT if you want to put more emphasis on them start doing single leg presses, single leg split squats, front squats and reverse lunges.

 

[msforr75]

So, what do you recommend for quads? Doing partial squats puts an emphasis on your quads, you can do variations to target your quads

Leg press and hack squats with feet further back. Get up on your toes at the bottom and you will be hitting quads. Honestly, I just do them standard and vary foot position. I like hitting the quads and hams together. Feel like I'm making more progress that way.

 

[alphamale1]

I've been training over 25yrs and the beauty that comes with puttin in all that work is I've truly learned what works for ME!!!!!! You can take what's shared here and implement as needed but over time I gurantee you will find how to train according to YOUR body. As you experiment with different training ideas and techniques allow several months to see if your respondin to the new stimulus. The pre-exhaust method I love because with 25 years of trng comes alot of abuse and my tendons and joints have suffered....with the pre-exhaust method I dont go as heavy but I'm still gettin it in.....

 

[richiec]

You can't really TARGET your quads BUT if you want to put more emphasis on them start doing single leg presses, single leg split squats, front squats and reverse lunges.

I was asking sarcastically because squatting hits my quads. Doing partial reps will "target" them more as oppsed to a full ROM squat for me. If I position my toes differently, I feel it more in different parts as well. Each person is different. I do front squats as well and strongly promote them.

Some people experience pain in their knees from leg ext at light weights, and some never experience it no matter how heavy they go. If the OP is looking to pre-exhaust his quads before squats and leg ext don't hurt his knees, is there anything wrong with it? Some peoples knees hurt when they do lunges so they can't do them despite being great for ones legs. Everyone is different and needs to know their body and how it reacts to certain movements and combinations of movements. There is no cookie cutter routine or else we'd all look like Ronnie

 

[kyushomaster]

For a majority of people squats are sufficient for stressing the quads, but for some the glutes/hamstrings receive a majority of the stimulation. its for that reason that even Dorian Yates used and recommends leg extensions to failure before moving on to squats or leg presses in his case. Obviously if you were a powerlifter and strength was your main goal, doing leg extensions first would be a terrible idea.

 

[Lysphen]

Obviously if you were a powerlifter and strength was your main goal, doing leg extensions first would be a terrible idea.

True !


pre-exhausting or warming up depends on your goals

i would do some light leg extensions AND leg curls to warmp up both the front and the back of my thighs
hip mobility is a great thing to add, as said above

 

[strongman456]

u could use light extensions to warm up, then do squats then heavy leg extensions

 

[alfresco]

good post

You are assuming its all the leg extensions. Lets look at what is wrong with them from a biomechanical standpoint.

The ACL is loaded via Tibiofemoral forces throughout the entire ROM. This is not really good for knee health. They also increase lateral patellar pull which = bad since the vast majority of people are already laterally very tight. They also increase rectus femoris activity when the rectus femoris is already such an overworked muscle and a cause of a lot of knee pain for a lot of lifters it doesn't need extra work.. \

Another interesting thing about leg extentions is that research shows they delay the firing of the VMO. This is very bad for knee health, since VMO recruitment and rapid firing is very important in knee health.

Theres more but I'll just leave this here. The majority of top strength coaches in the world will never have an athlete or olympic lifter ever touch a leg ext machine. Theres no correlation to leg extensions increasing squat power, considering squats are mainly glute/ham/hip strength.

I do not have the knowledge to enter into an intelligent discussion regarding the merits,
advantages or disadvantages, pros or cons of leg extensions.

And was not assuming anything, was attempting to communicate what I have seen and
experienced, not what I have read or heard.

Leg extensions, like any exercise or anything in life for that matter; be it drinking
a glass of water, walking across the street or wiping your ass, the effectiveness
usually comes down to what I call the “execution factor”, how and when you perform
the activity.

And lastly, it is my opinion that there are a lot more people walking around now-a-days
because of leg extensions than those who, for whatever reason chose to ignore or avoid
them. Think rehabilitation . . .

 

[wgtnmuscle]

ask Phil what he thinks about leg ext
he only has me doing squats and after that you can hardley walk

 

[Pericles]

I was asking sarcastically because squatting hits my quads. Doing partial reps will "target" them more as oppsed to a full ROM squat for me. If I position my toes differently, I feel it more in different parts as well. Each person is different. I do front squats as well and strongly promote them.

Some people experience pain in their knees from leg ext at light weights, and some never experience it no matter how heavy they go. If the OP is looking to pre-exhaust his quads before squats and leg ext don't hurt his knees, is there anything wrong with it? Some peoples knees hurt when they do lunges so they can't do them despite being great for ones legs. Everyone is different and needs to know their body and how it reacts to certain movements and combinations of movements. There is no cookie cutter routine or else we'd all look like Ronnie

you are assuming width is going to have emphasis on which muscles get hit. Thats not the case and there are many EMG studies that correlate with this along with research. Depth ie: ROM is the key to size and growth. If you don't believe me, look at eric cressey's research, mike robertson, alwyn cosgrove. Just because a movement doesn't give you pain doesn't mean to KEEP doing it when its known to cause issues. Thats like promoting a deadlift being in spinal flexion or the FAIL of a STIFF LEG deadlift. Both of those movements I see people do daily at my facility yet these people don't have pain. *(Pain right now, think future not NOW)... Understanding the human body, knowing proper biomechanics for yourself and others will teach you more than anything. Its More than just doing movements that work for you and ones that don't.

 

[Pericles]

I do not have the knowledge to enter into an intelligent discussion regarding the merits,
advantages or disadvantages, pros or cons of leg extensions.

And was not assuming anything, was attempting to communicate what I have seen and
experienced, not what I have read or heard.

Leg extensions, like any exercise or anything in life for that matter; be it drinking
a glass of water, walking across the street or wiping your ass, the effectiveness
usually comes down to what I call the “execution factor”, how and when you perform
the activity.

And lastly, it is my opinion that there are a lot more people walking around now-a-days
because of leg extensions than those who, for whatever reason chose to ignore or avoid
them. Think rehabilitation . . .

I respect your opinion and do realize that in rehab the weight load is considerably less and with acl and meniscus issues they place alot of emphases on inverting the foot and putting stress on the VMO. In response to the execution factor, its not about that on leg ext. Its the movement in general and knowing how it affects the body. I haven't done a leg ext in 4 years and my legs have developed the same as if Id have them in there.

 

[dragonfire101]

leg extensions are a complete waste of time and energy. you want to do another exercise after squats then throw in a set or two of front squats.

Sissy squats...hit the quads in that stretch contracted position. Too bad most gyms don't have the foot stand to do them.

 

[Scrawny1]

I was asking sarcastically because squatting hits my quads. Doing partial reps will "target" them more as oppsed to a full ROM squat for me. If I position my toes differently, I feel it more in different parts as well. Each person is different. I do front squats as well and strongly promote them.

Some people experience pain in their knees from leg ext at light weights, and some never experience it no matter how heavy they go. If the OP is looking to pre-exhaust his quads before squats and leg ext don't hurt his knees, is there anything wrong with it? Some peoples knees hurt when they do lunges so they can't do them despite being great for ones legs. Everyone is different and needs to know their body and how it reacts to certain movements and combinations of movements. There is no cookie cutter routine or else we'd all look like Ronnie

Thanks for the replies so far, everyone. I am still making steady gains in size and strength by doing leg extensions before the squats. Like some of you have said, everyone responds a little differently.

I'm going to continue to pre-exhaust my legs until the time comes when I reach a plateau. Then I'm going to try heavy squats (for probably low reps) when my legs are fresh (after a light warmup for the knees).

Switchching up whe workouts has helped me through playeaus in the past.

Keep the advice coming.


Thanks!

 

[ericraven2003]

My knee problems, for the most part, went totally away when I took out leg estensions. I think they are must bad news.