Leg Training, KNEE PAIN (Hypertrophy while Managing Knee Health)

[gradeaphysique]

Title.

Please share how your knees are doing and whatever valuable experience you can share in regard to quad training and knee health.

You can checkout my log for my specific training, pics etc.

I'm still within a year of a comeback from untrained. 29, and have had strings of years where I trained hard and consistent but always trained legs through those times. The knee pain I have been fighting with, has never been present. I train VERY strictly in regard to form. My biggest "compromise" to form will go no farther than rep speed. I have worked an office 9 to 5 for half a decade and it's the only variable along with age that I attribute a detriment to mobility & flexibility.

Upon getting back in the gym, I choose a hack squat as my staple. It was going well, progression is there, connection, pump, fullness of muscle. Issue is after a month, my knees outside of training became so damn sore and impaired of mobility, I had to switch it up.

Sled leg press which I would never personally choose say over a Cybex squat press is my next available option. I was using it with my feet very high on hamstring focused day but even so my knees took a similar beating. I get it, same general movement different angles, both pretty restrictive movement of the knee.

I say fuck it, I'm barbell squatting frequently and getting good at that. Its never bothered my knee but was kept to 1x per week for about 3 sets. Why? Because it hit my glutes as it should and I need more quad, much more than I do glute.

Unfortunately my squat, feels pretty good. Awesome depth, good cueing. As I start to work with any weight around 2 plates, I get discomfort I can recognize while resting between sets. I do a test set with the same weight but very cautious of ROM and I will put that weight right back if I feel pain upon a specific part of the depth.

I work around it, with weight and sprinkling the working sets through the workout. Ultimately I'm going to have to hire a coach who can review my mechanics and give guidance towards therapy.

Feel free to share tips

 

[Runner1032]

I have been dealing with knee pain for years. My knees are at a pain level if 3-4 out of 10 at all times.

Literally it’s amazing how big my legs are for what I do to train them. I mean I am still top heavy from a bodybuilder standpoint, but I get a ton of comments that my legs are huge.

So this is what I do.

1) stretch your hips. Your quads originate in your hips and if your hips are tight will affect your knees. You won’t believe how much stretching your hips daily will help.

2) warm up a lot. My leg workouts consist of banded TKE’s for 3-5 sets of 40-50. Then I super set it with banded hip abduction for sets of 30. Following that, I do backwards sled drags superset with sled pushes. About 6 times both ways. This I find to be pretty pain free and can work my knees through a range of motion. Actually after incorporating this my knees have been doing remarkably better.

Then I usually super set abduction with adduction on the machines where you see every girl use for their inner and outer legs. Usually 3-5 sets of 20.

Seated leg curls or Glute ham raises for 5 sets.

Now I am ready for my first quad exercise. I will either do a pit shark or barbell squat.

If I pit shark, I do 25lbs at a time. Max I am only able to do right now is 4 25’s per side. Usually 5 sets of 20-30 reps. I also make sure I pause for a count of 2 at the bottom of the squat.

If I do barbell squats it’s been 135lbs. 10 set of 5 with 5 second pauses at the bottom of each rep. 1 minute rest between sets. It’s brutal!

Next it is a leg press. Usually 3-5 sets of 50 unbroken reps. It’s not a bang it out rep style. It’s slow, controlled and really squeezing. This is incredibly painful and really works the lungs. The lactic acid in the legs is killer.

Lastly I follow it up with 3-5 sets of lying leg curls super set with 30 second wall squat holds.

What’s crazy is I don’t squat more than 135. I see people do perfect squats on the pit shark with 8 plates per side and I only do 2 plates tops. However I have made serious gains and they are still growing to catch up. They will never be as good as they used to be. They are still bigger and look way better than a lot of competitors at my gym.

Just find an exercise that works pain free and run with it. Ramp up the volume and reps.

This picture is my legs a few weeks ago. No pump. I think I trained back and chest this day.

 

[Golden]

For myself personally I just have to go overboard with warming up and I have to start with leg extensions to get some blood moving as going straight into a compound has my knees throbbing. I’ve made a conscious effort to not lock out on compounds either and keep constant tension on the quads. Helps to reduce load used which benefits my knees no end

 

[Fa Seeshus]

What shoes are you lifting in?

With zero drop shoes my knees feel much better.

 

[race_camsey]

Hit the stair master backwards for 10minutes before starting your leg day. I then typically start with a form of hamstring curls then hit the good girl machine. THEN i do a press.

 

[gradeaphysique]

All quality feedback. Much appreciated. I think a longer warm up and a focus on lower body mobility will help substantially.

Right now I don't have a dedicated warm up apart from warm up sets. One thing I will say is much different is my former patience with warming up. On upper days I would do atleast 15 min rotator cuff warm up along with getting some blood in my bis and tris and that was following some light cardio for 5 min specific to the body part being trained. Legs were similar with dynamic stretching.

Honestly I had gotten away from that since coming back to the gym. I may have seen it as a bit wasteful as time and fine tuning form specific to shoulder and knee health were the major variables that had me feeling good.

I'm back on it.

Another aspect of leg training I'm undecided on is, whether or not leg extensions can really amount to substantial quad growth. I've used the movement in different apps all throughout my training. Pre exhaustion, as a primary exercise with more straight sets, as a way to keep blood in my quads in between leg sessions. I can't say I'm sure upon it's value but it's one of the only quad movements outside of lunges that are nice to my knees rn. Lmk your thoughts.

 

[Wonton]

All quality feedback. Much appreciated. I think a longer warm up and a focus on lower body mobility will help substantially.

Right now I don't have a dedicated warm up apart from warm up sets. One thing I will say is much different is my former patience with warming up. On upper days I would do atleast 15 min rotator cuff warm up along with getting some blood in my bis and tris and that was following some light cardio for 5 min specific to the body part being trained. Legs were similar with dynamic stretching.

Honestly I had gotten away from that since coming back to the gym. I may have seen it as a bit wasteful as time and fine tuning form specific to shoulder and knee health were the major variables that had me feeling good.

I'm back on it.

Another aspect of leg training I'm undecided on is, whether or not leg extensions can really amount to substantial quad growth. I've used the movement in different apps all throughout my training. Pre exhaustion, as a primary exercise with more straight sets, as a way to keep blood in my quads in between leg sessions. I can't say I'm sure upon it's value but it's one of the only quad movements outside of lunges that are nice to my knees rn. Lmk your thoughts.

I'm not a pro
Barely have any muscle

But my common sense says if it works that muscle - it will build it

Your job figuring out how to do it

 

[champ0505]

hey buddy I have the exact same issue with my knees. my left is a bit worse than right side. here is some tips for you that I personally do.

1.use some nandrolone with your test 2/1 ratio test to deca works best. ex) 500mg test/week with 250mg nandrolone/week. if you are more experienced and have more muscle tissue you would up dose accordingly to your size. nandrolone will lube your joints and makes lifting so much easier due to a cushon like feeling.

2. i stretch my lower back (yoga stuff/chiropracter stuff. strech hips too and glutes. ( this is more for if you have a bad lower back like me but everyone will benefit with working the spine and stretching for flexability.)

3.i do 20 mins on stairmaster before each leg session on level 2(very slow) it warms up knee joints and prepares the muscles for the work ahead. ( i learned this from kai green)

4. I use knee compression sleeves from Iron Rebel when i need them(i always carry them and belt on leg day)

5. avoid hack squats entirely (wonderful mass builder for quads but terrible on knees) I also avoid pendulum squat as it hurts my lower back. avoid any exersize that hurts you. training is individual, be original and do what you feel best. i love squats on smith machine and leg press thats my bread and butter for quads, extensions are good to but will hurt knees some so use compression sleeves if you need to.

6. use moderate weight with flawless form, focus on time under tension and not how heavy you are lifting. avoid locking out knees. 15-20 rep sets with high volume(multiple sets) is best for leg growth none of that 8-10 reps fast heavy bullshit. train the muscles and not the ligaments and tendons of course they will get worked but by not locking out and slow contolled time under tension 20 rep sets will burn the muscle like crazy and will not be as likely to hurt your knees.

try it. hope it helps op.

 

[gradeaphysique]

I'm not a pro
Barely have any muscle

But my common sense says if it works that muscle - it will build it

Your job figuring out how to do it

I agree for the most part. There is a reason why most's chest staple is cable flies as an example of where I'm coming from. They give me good stimulus but from experience I cant say they put much into my development.

I may just have to give them real priority in my programming. Lunges have never done me wrong, issue is they arent easy to load and are pretty cardio heavy. That ratio between difficultly in load progression and a battle for muscular failure before cardio exhaust is tough.

The gym I plan to join will likely allow me to do some oldschool heavy barbell lunges. I hope those go well.

 

[gradeaphysique]

hey buddy I have the exact same issue with my knees. my left is a bit worse than right side. here is some tips for you that I personally do.

1.use some nandrolone with your test 2/1 ratio test to deca works best. ex) 500mg test/week with 250mg nandrolone/week. if you are more experienced and have more muscle tissue you would up dose accordingly to your size. nandrolone will lube your joints and makes lifting so much easier due to a cushon like feeling.

2. i stretch my lower back (yoga stuff/chiropracter stuff. strech hips too and glutes. ( this is more for if you have a bad lower back like me but everyone will benefit with working the spine and stretching for flexability.)

3.i do 20 mins on stairmaster before each leg session on level 2(very slow) it warms up knee joints and prepares the muscles for the work ahead. ( i learned this from kai green)

4. I use knee compression sleeves from Iron Rebel when i need them(i always carry them and belt on leg day)

5. avoid hack squats entirely (wonderful mass builder for quads but terrible on knees) I also avoid pendulum squat as it hurts my lower back. avoid any exersize that hurts you. training is individual, be original and do what you feel best. i love squats on smith machine and leg press thats my bread and butter for quads, extensions are good to but will hurt knees some so use compression sleeves if you need to.

6. use moderate weight with flawless form, focus on time under tension and not how heavy you are lifting. avoid locking out knees. 15-20 rep sets with high volume(multiple sets) is best for leg growth none of that 8-10 reps fast heavy bullshit. train the muscles and not the ligaments and tendons of course they will get worked but by not locking out and slow contolled time under tension 20 rep sets will burn the muscle like crazy and will not be as likely to hurt your knees.

try it. hope it helps op.

Thank you!

 

[drew157]

What shoes are you lifting in?

With zero drop shoes my knees feel much better.

Same here. I switched to a pair of Xero shows which have a wide toe box and zero drop. Made a huge difference in my leg training and with knee pain.

Besides that I try to stick mostly in the higher rep ranges, and if I do hit lower reps it'd be later in the session. So today for example I did

Lying leg curl - 3 sets
Banded Leg press x20 x15
Hack Squat (reverse band) x12 x8

By the time I get to the 8 rep set of hacks my knees are pretty warm and ready to handle the load. Plus reverse banded it'll take some of the pressure off the knees at the bottom.

 

[M@NU]

my best tip for everyone here:
Use reverse bands on every pressing movement. Even if you juse use the lightest band possible.
Put it around the barbell / Equipment so in the reverse point (from eccentric to concentric) it is slightly stretched.
It doesnt need to overly stretch
for me, this puts away a ton of stress from the joints while allowing me to lift somewhat heavy.
And no - using a band that removes 10 pounds at the reverse spot is completely different than simply removing 10 pounds from the bar - dont ask me why.

 

[jeroendebleser]

Hack squats...a known knee killer. At least most hack squat machines.

 

[UsmcOldSchoolMuscle]

my best tip for everyone here:
Use reverse bands on every pressing movement. Even if you juse use the lightest band possible.
Put it around the barbell / Equipment so in the reverse point (from eccentric to concentric) it is slightly stretched.
It doesnt need to overly stretch
for me, this puts away a ton of stress from the joints while allowing me to lift somewhat heavy.
And no - using a band that removes 10 pounds at the reverse spot is completely different than simply removing 10 pounds from the bar - dont ask me why.

I really don't understand your post at all.

Is there another way that you can explain it? Could you show a picture?

 

[M@NU]

this is reverse bands on the smith maschine
(pressing but works the same for squats or other movements)