Let this sink in

[Fit2Serve]

A lot of guys on here think you should start at lower doses like 250 and work your way up there. I’m not one of those. There’s a limited window here with sports and AAS and I personally like to get in hard and get out. I accomplished what I wanted in powerlifting and bodybuilding and now run much lower doses. Would I like to be huge again? Definitely. And I’m gonna try at some point….but for now I’m happy with the size and strength I’m bringing to the table in mma and work

i agree with this. i blasted mostly and cruised some in my 30's. stopped as i approached my 40's.
pretty healthy relatively speaking now. def cant justify abusing things now in my 40's plus i get mental sides to almost everything but test and primo and mast...
a cycle for me is 150-300mg test prop and 400-600mg primo. for long as i can stand the injects. lol
-F

 

[jhntruevine]

Huh?

I'll be the first person to warn someone against using and abusing steroids

But why *wouldn't* you advise 500mg test for a first cycle?

We aren't talking about TRT here

I absolutely agree with you on this depending on who we’re talking about. If it’s an 18-19 old who just starting working out…definitely not 500mgs & really nothing until he learns the ropes in the gym

That being said a 21- up who has reached his genetic potential naturally. Nothing wrong with test 500mgs ew, Deca 300mgs ew, dbol 30-50 ed

 

[Fit2Serve]

my first was 250mg for 10 weeks. waste for a few reasons... mainly diet.
but even if all things on point 500mg makes waaaay more sense. OR 300mg prop at the least.
i do think first cycle should be test only then next round add an exotic/derivitive but imo crucial to know how u react to test alone.
-F

 

[heavyhitter]

I absolutely agree with you on this depending on who we’re talking about. If it’s an 18-19 old who just starting working out…definitely not 500mgs & really nothing until he learns the ropes in the gym

That being said a 21- up who has reached his genetic potential naturally. Nothing wrong with test 500mgs ew, Deca 300mgs ew, dbol 30-50 ed

I mean, why even wait till he hits his limit naturally? The more we see it’s looking more and more like 35ish is about the max limit for most guys with regards to AAS use and competing. After that muscles start to atrophy and things start going downhill. Look at Phil Heath? Obviously there’s exceptions like dexter. But if guys are going to be using AAS to compete in whatever sport, might as well use them to get good early

 

[beastmode121]

Idk man… I do agree but I also disagree

no one in the high level of bodybuilding taking small doses. how’s that healthy?

 

[FrancisK]

Huh?

I'll be the first person to warn someone against using and abusing steroids

But why *wouldn't* you advise 500mg test for a first cycle?

We aren't talking about TRT here

I agree with this even though it goes against what I typically believe, which is normally always doing things in moderation.

But your first cycle is going to be your best one ever and arguably your most side effect free one also, which you will recover well from if not completely…..I like to say “the first one is free”. You already decided to use steroids Pandora’s box has been opened, why wouldn’t you get the most out of it that you could? As much as I try to dissuade randoms from using gear if someone is dead set on it and it’s going to happen no matter what I tell them then I would tell them to go for broke…….

 

[KillerStack]

If it was posted by Dusty did he mean his own coaches like Aceto? Serious question as Aceto is often called reckless with the last minute prep before shows. Remember when Luke Sandoe said Aceto almost killed him and would surely have killed him had he taken as much as Aceto told him to take. And then, IIRC, Luke got back with Aceto a while later anyway.

So which top level coach is not dangerous and actually cares about dudes life after their careers? Maybe Dante with guys like Dusty, but who else?

So I'm with cm and kinda wonder what the point of the post is.

 

[KillerStack]

Huh?

I'll be the first person to warn someone against using and abusing steroids

But why *wouldn't* you advise 500mg test for a first cycle?

We aren't talking about TRT here

Yup. Don't waste the first exposure.

Post in thread '20 year post death discussion remembering Dan Duchaine' https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...-remembering-dan-duchaine.167302/post-2924945

 

[heavyhitter]

If it was posted by Dusty did he mean his own coaches like Aceto? Serious question as Aceto is often called reckless with the last minute prep before shows. Remember when Luke Sandoe said Aceto almost killed him and would surely have killed him had he taken as much as Aceto told him to take. And then, IIRC, Luke got back with Aceto a while later anyway.

So which top level coach is not dangerous and actually cares about dudes life after their careers? Maybe Dante with guys like Dusty, but who else?

So I'm with cm and kinda wonder what the point of the post is.

I got the impression it was more from the standpoint that dusty is a coach who cares about his clients and sees other coaches who don’t

 

[maldorf]

I agree with this even though it goes against what I typically believe, which is normally always doing things in moderation.

But your first cycle is going to be your best one ever and arguably your most side effect free one also, which you will recover well from if not completely…..I like to say “the first one is free”. You already decided to use steroids Pandora’s box has been opened, why wouldn’t you get the most out of it that you could? As much as I try to dissuade randoms from using gear if someone is dead set on it and it’s going to happen no matter what I tell them then I would tell them to go for broke…….

The human body is only capable of putting on so much muscle in a given time. Each person is going to have a maximum amount they can put on in a time period, and there will be an optimal dose for steroids to reach that. Once that dosage is surpassed, there won't be any more gains. So someone whom has a optimal dose of say 500 mg/wk won't gain any more muscle if they take 2x that (1000 mg).

Guys new to bodybuilding, guys with not a great amount of muscle tissue built, shouldn't require as much to reach their maximum growth. If newbies could take a gram or more a week and grow proportionately with that dose, we would have a lot of huge bodybuilders walking around.

Taking greater and greater doses to a point produce no greater gains and only needlessly risk the health and life of the user.

 

[yatyas314]

I think that with the expansion of social media and the influx of opinions on this subject over the last 10-15 years. It has just come to a numbers thing where genetically gifted "trainers" sell cookie cutter diets and cookie cutter cycles without blood work prior. Not giving the "Client" the attention Dusty or whoever else that is a master of their craft. It must get old watching generation after generation make the same mistakes. Probably more of a vent than a actionable post. Use your common sense know what your are getting for your money. No substitute for hard work and discipline.

 

[Biggerp73]

Remember when Luke Sandoe said Aceto almost killed him and would surely have killed him had he taken as much as Aceto told him to take. And then, IIRC, Luke got back with Aceto a while later anyway.

Can't help but see suicidal leanings in that.

Yup. Don't waste the first exposure.

Post in thread '20 year post death discussion remembering Dan Duchaine' https://www.professionalmuscle.com/...-remembering-dan-duchaine.167302/post-2924945

Interesting idea from Duchaine. I was wondering a few days ago about why I seem to have responded better to AAS than the average Joe (not saying I had an elite response - obviously I didn't). Maybe it was the fact I basically started mega dosing after the first week or two of my first "cycle."

 

[pesty4077]

I been doing this 41 years. I seen drug abuse go to ungodly amounts. I see local guys in gyms taking 2 grams and looking like shit. If you think you can get abusing drugs over the years, you are fooling yourself. I can't tell everyone what that threshold of how much will push you to that. I seen guys who can you take about 100 mg a week and others can take 500 mg per week without serious health consequences for long extended periods of time. Comprehensive blood work should be a must. Certain supplements should be a must. Controlling things like blood pressure and cholesterol should be a must. Few Pros make a good living. You got to ask yourself, is a trophy worth your health? If I train you, you be taking less in the off season, training harder and focusing on eating better. I just don't get guys who think starting out at 500 mg a week is good. Then by your third cycle, you are already over a gram. I always thought taking the minimal amount that makes you grow is what you should be taking. In 5 years, you will know if you have what it takes to reach that level. You either got it or you don't. If you want to live like guys like Emeric's age and have a good quality of life, hopefully you will change your mindset and enjoy your life at an older age.

 

[Dugbet]

Of course it is, because people are generally lazy

Laziness and fear are the fundamental characteristics of the human race, unfortunately.

 

[opietaylor]

Those that suggest 500mg test for first cycle.

exactly. duck eggs, humanofort, egf growth factors and forced rep leg presses are all anyone needs.

500mg christ, dangerous territory your wading into at 2cc per week.

 

[totalrecomp]

The human body is only capable of putting on so much muscle in a given time. Each person is going to have a maximum amount they can put on in a time period, and there will be an optimal dose for steroids to reach that. Once that dosage is surpassed, there won't be any more gains. So someone whom has a optimal dose of say 500 mg/wk won't gain any more muscle if they take 2x that (1000 mg).

Guys new to bodybuilding, guys with not a great amount of muscle tissue built, shouldn't require as much to reach their maximum growth. If newbies could take a gram or more a week and grow proportionately with that dose, we would have a lot of huge bodybuilders walking around.

Taking greater and greater doses to a point produce no greater gains and only needlessly risk the health and life of the user.

Can ANYONE HONESTLY look at themselves after 10-15 years of use and really think, "I would be so much better off had I used more in my very first cycle 10 years ago!" Come on. With each successive cycle the results on each individual cycle matter less and less. We all know how rare a one-and-done cycle is so once you have 10-30, if you even come off at all, of them under your belt do we really think the first one matters AT ALL? Does anyone know a single user they can point to and say, "Now them right there....they took the right amount the first time, you can tell!" lol
If someone has herculean like restraint and plans on going on TRT ONLY for the rest of their life and wants to run a one off blast..........well sure go all out but how many guys on planet earth does that really describe?????

On the sport not a sport of BB (which was NOT THE POINT of the post in the least lol)
Competition: Not a sport as there really is not an athletic event taking place.
Training: A highly athletic endeavor.
So BB's perform an athlete-like existence without an athletic competition at the end. So if you go to the track every day and perform sprints, or the gym to perform Olympic lifts, or the pool to practice the backstroke but never go to a competition..............are you an athlete? I say yes, just not a competitive athlete.
So is BB a sport? Who the fuck cares. lol.

 

[opietaylor]

this is why i rescue dogs instead of people.

johnny numbnuts at the local ymca is blasting 3 grams......who the fuck cares.

 

[juggy38]

So is 150mg tren a day too much or no?

Idk anymore. The giants that are open about it are on BIG fucking doses. Like 2.5G+ with GH.

Luki, Jordan peters, some of the UK guys….and then we have guys like Dorian saying 1.5G was Extremely high

Idk anymore. I’m quitting and taking up golf

 

[Dipp20]

Can ANYONE HONESTLY look at themselves after 10-15 years of use and really think, "I would be so much better off had I used more in my very first cycle 10 years ago!"

Nope. I only do the blast and cruise thing for 5 years but I would actually say the opposite. I started way too high and looking back the recent few blasts with a very moderate dose of AAS with a close to perfect setting (diet, sleep, training, and so on) let me made more progress than with the stupidly high dosages I started with years ago.

 

[Tomgrass]

Problem is: everybody think they will be next great bodybuilder until they realise that maybe not. But almost everybody try as hard as they can if he really love this sport (99.9999%). Few years later they see they have no chance but damage is already done. This forum is mostly for serious people who wanna be their best. This also including high doses. I think we all were the same (I was). Why it will never change? Cause nobody know the future. There always will be that question: what if??? Who don't wanna try? All of us wanna excel in this. We live this shit breathe this shit. I even had a dreams that I forgot to take my tan with me. You cant be taking things serious and try half ass. You simply can't and almost everybody will do whatever it takes to get there. We all trying to be one step ahead in front of competition and simply cause the information is very avaliable we know what other people do. Who will do less if the desire to win is so strong? Years later we see things how we should seen them earlier. There is nothing wrong in pursuit of perfection this is our nature. We would never be where we are now if our ancestors thought: I don't need anything else then this cage and spear. Life is good enough. We will always want more, always!!!