Letro = Zero Libido

[Gizmo]

Jizzmo is right. With comparative doses, in men aromasin, arimidex and letro are equal and 50-60% reduction in estradiol is about all you can expect.

Kaladryn has posted about this several times.

And I still say that is not true, I got my bloods done with testosterone >1500 and estrogen at 9 (6 was the low end of the range). Are these men in the study using exogenous testosterone?

 

[Growman]

I think mine was in the 20's but that was on Research Chem crap.

 

[Pharm_Fed]

And I still say that is not true, I got my bloods done with testosterone >1500 and estrogen at 9 (6 was the low end of the range). Are these men in the study using exogenous testosterone?

I don't remember the specifics of the study(ies). But if you search posts with "letro" by user "Kaladryn" you will find some great information he has shared in the past.

 

[Gizmo]

I don't remember the specifics of the study(ies). But if you search posts with "letro" by user "Kaladryn" you will find some great information he has shared in the past.

I've read them and there is still something missing from our understanding of how it works.

 

[Jizzmo]

And I still say that is not true, I got my bloods done with testosterone >1500 and estrogen at 9 (6 was the low end of the range). Are these men in the study using exogenous testosterone?

well, 2.5mg is probably the highest effective dose and would yield results similar to 1mg adex or 25mg aromasin...
and yeah you CAN definitely nuke estrogen on a TRT dose of test (or naturally) with 2.5mg letro a day.

its not impossible to get your estrogen below 10 with that, but with >1500 testosterone thats pretty impressive nonetheless...


maybe the measurements are just off and it doesnt differentiate between the different types of estrogen.
if you ever used tren, its nothing special to have estrogen readings at 500 or so even with just TRT dose of test.
letro might just screw with the results in a similar way, but i dont know anything about that.

 

[Daniel11]

My panda is about a week into the gyno reduction protocol using Letro and Nolva. So dropping isn't really an option just yet.



Just looking to see if there is a way to counter that side effect.

I hope you are taking these sequentially and not in combination:

http://m.clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/5/9/2338.full

Nolva reduces the amount of Letro into the blood when taken in combination. This is not very optimal obviously.

Always use Asin with Nolva as no drug interactions occur.

 

[mewalrus]

I don't remember the specifics of the study(ies). But if you search posts with "letro" by user "Kaladryn" you will find some great information he has shared in the past.

The study was not done on exogenous test users with essentially no endogenous production. Someone in another thread hypothesized that the ai's don't affect testicular aromitase which is a significant portion, however if your balls aren't making any test they will have much much lower concentration. This hypothesis also explains why many report difficulty controling estrogen when they add hcg to their cycle or hrt.

It also explains how letro could reduce an aas users estrogen to very near zero, as I have seen bloodwork posted elsewhere where this happened.

 

[Gizmo]

well, 2.5mg is probably the highest effective dose and would yield results similar to 1mg adex or 25mg aromasin...
and yeah you CAN definitely nuke estrogen on a TRT dose of test (or naturally) with 2.5mg letro a day.

its not impossible to get your estrogen below 10 with that, but with >1500 testosterone thats pretty impressive nonetheless...


maybe the measurements are just off and it doesnt differentiate between the different types of estrogen.
if you ever used tren, its nothing special to have estrogen readings at 500 or so even with just TRT dose of test.
letro might just screw with the results in a similar way, but i dont know anything about that.

Yeah I was on 800mg of sust a week from a very reputable source and bloods obviously showed it was test. I was using 2.5mgs ED of letro (which I won't do again) because of nipple soreness and already have a small amount of gyno from puberty.

 

[Growman]

Yeah you can do 2.5 mg per day, but its going to destroy your libido. But when it comes to gyno its really the only worthwhile option if you are trying to avoid surgery.

As soon as it shrinks you should start to taper down, then onto another AI

 

[Area-1255]

Well there you go, like i said he was probably right. It makes sense that it has the greatest impact on the estrogen that effects libido, because that is the main side effect that everyone notices (loss of libido).

Even when i have gotten blood work done on letro my estrogen wasnt zero, so i guess thats proof also. Whatever it does it has the best effect on existing gyno...

Masteron can be used to counter some of the side-effects of low E2, but it might not help the mood disturbances. Most people with low E2 Become depressed and have body temp changes as well...I had abnormal sensitivity to cold weather for example, joint cracking and almost zero libido...but then again when I added serotonin antagonists, alpha blockers and opiate modulators...libido was restored, even with low E2...BUT its not worth spending that much money trying to work around it if you can simply lower the letro dose.

 

[brad107]

i thought lwtro was a aphrodisiac?

 

[Kaladryn]

It is probably NOT from letro lowering E2 too much like everyone thinks.

Letro has some specific effects that other AIs do not. I have switched from Aromasin to Letro (all US pharm grade), done bloodwork on both, and had the exact same E2 level on both, but no sex drive on letro.

I've read about this, can't remember the source, but letro has some brain specific activity that other AIs do not...

 

[ThinkTank]

Would Caber help with sexual function?

 

[Area-1255]

Would Caber help with sexual function?

Not so much while ON letro, as I said, dopamine is only one piece to the puzzle. E2 does raise dopamine production and prevents it's breakdown, as well as acting as a selective serotonin, opiate and adrenergic antagonist. Some fellas don't get libido issues with low E2, BUT these are few and far between. It's such a significant tendency , because brain estradiol lays the groundwork for so much stuff. Caber might help a little but it wont stop the serotonin and opiate elevations associate with low E2. Also estradiol directly promotes nitric oxide in the pvn and midbrain, so again, better off just lowering the dose of letro.

It was an experiment of sorts as well, and based on my research that's how it works.

E2
-Raises dopamine production, inhibits MAO, cAMP PDE.
-Increases dopamine d2 expression.
-Lays groundwork for oxytocin / vasopressin function.
-Selectively antagonize opiates.

So what would you rather do?
Lower the letro dose or cover all of the above and spend a shit ton of money while doing it.

 

[bigoso]

Reading all these posts I must be fortunate because I've ran 2.5 of letro daily during numerous preps with zero effect on libido

 

[Growman]

Damn Bigoso you are definitely in the minority but thats a good thing in this case. Area lays out some nice facts and supplements that you can take to counter act the low libido but like he said it will cost you a fortune. For most of us its just a necessary evil if you are going to need to use a high dose of letro you are going to have lower libido.

Earlier in the thread i mentioned that i had no sexual side effects, just very low libido. I was able to get an erection and i was able to perform, I just didnt really want to. If my girl was in the mood and wanted it, it wasnt a problem.

My advice to people who are trying to kill some gyno would be to go ahead and use the letro. I wouldnt let gyno get bad and end up under the knife just because you might lose your libido.... Mine came back pretty quickly.

 

[mewalrus]

Reading all these posts I must be fortunate because I've ran 2.5 of letro daily during numerous preps with zero effect on libido

Were you running HCG also?

 

[Ashop]

Does anyone know of a way to increase libido while taking Letro? Maybe it isn't even possible...

I have never had these issues with LETRO as it happens to be my prefered AI.
I do use very small infrequent dosages though. Perhaps your using too much?

 

[bigoso]

Were you running HCG also?

No, I was running tren though, which makes me want to bang a hole in the wall. What I find hits my libido more than anything is when cals get really low

 

[Jizzmo]

No, I was running tren though, which makes me want to bang a hole in the wall. What I find hits my libido more than anything is when cals get really low

my libido is completely gone within 3 weeks of cutting
i could run a gram of test and tren and jerk it like once a week...
never had any problem getting it up or whatever, just no desire to.
makes cutting fucking suck, but hey at least its going to town when bulking