Let's talk about scar tissue/knots and possible treatments

[FuriousAngus]

This is my work specialty also, and like others have said, mature scar tissue cant be 'un-done'. There are stripping teqhniques that can soften it and improve appearance. You can keep the surrounding areas from becoming involved.
Percussive tools can make it feel better and maintain range of motion, but your best option is to keep rotating sites, use proper inj technique, and massage inj sites reqularly with a lacrosse ball or foam roller.
Simply put, you cant turn gristle back into steak

I was hoping to avoid coming to terms with this, honestly. I'm not saying my muscles are entirely deformed or anything of sorts. But I feel so jealous looking at all these big pros with their smooth muscle bellies (seemingly free of injection lumps or knots). I was hoping there'd be a way to go back to that point.

Your post has been very informative regardless, thanks!

 

[LK3]

there is a big difference between a bad shot/bump and real scar tissue.

bad shots you massage away maybe the muscle will be swollen and ugly for a week or so but its no thing.

then there are lumps that hang out for a bit, that may or may not have been bad shots, just lumps, sometimes they hurt sometimes they dont often they go away.

the real deal scars are in there and not leaving, if you inject into them it really sucks.

i have a shit ton of spots that i would love a knowledgeable art specialist to work on sadly i feel they are unicorn status. lol

go stick something!

 

[FuriousAngus]

It's worth noting that a small visible lump in the delt could possibly be a sterile abscess (just in case you hadn't thought of that). In which case treatment should be a wee bit different haha.

If they've been there a long time, you can minimize new damage and improve the feeling of the area (if there is associated pain/dysfunction). But in terms of the old, more "solidified" scar tissue, there isn't a whole lot you can do to "break it up".

As for how long it takes a scar to be mature - it depends, but it can take months to years to complete. And with the nature of the trauma (repeated injections in regular intervals) I'm honestly not sure how long it would take in this case (I imagine it is a very fluid process, with areas right next to each other undergoing different stages simultaneously and effecting the other areas).

The best things you can do (in my opinion) is focus on prevention - like someone else said, rotate injection sites, take precautions to cause the least damage possible during injections, and regularly stretch and massage the injection sites.

And just to clarify - it doesn't need to be light massage, I'm just not a fan of *painful* massage. I generally tend to work sort of "deep but gentle". Painful soft tissue treatments can sometimes help, but they can also sometimes cause more damage and pain, and there's no way of knowing ahead of time who will respond positively (and the same person could get kickback pain even if they've had previously positive results from painful treatments). I don't mean to harp on this, it's just so common with bodybuilders and athletes in general who feel like they need to be tortured to benefit from treatment - it's not needed! haha





This article is a decent view of wound healing for anyone interested:
https://www.physio-pedia.com/Soft_Tissue_Healing

Cricket, I had the small lump/knot (it almost feels like a piece of metal under my skin that gets soft when I get into a hot shower or massage it a bit, goes softer the longer I go without training the muscle and harder the day after) ultra sounded and they showed no puss or fluid in there. The technician said it looks like it's a bunch of fat scattered across a couple inches.

Aspirating pulls nothing (I tried at least a dozen times) and I havent injected there in over a year so I really doubt it's a sterile abscess. However, I do know that it formed because of constant injections in that area over a long period of time. What do you make of this?

 

[LK3]

I was hoping to avoid coming to terms with this, honestly. I'm not saying my muscles are entirely deformed or anything of sorts. But I feel so jealous looking at all these big pros with their smooth muscle bellies (seemingly free of injection lumps or knots). I was hoping there'd be a way to go back to that point.

Your post has been very informative regardless, thanks!

i havent really seen any detail on your issue other then saying you have a spot....

there is a lot that can be tried to make the better, hya, lipo massage, etc. you can fix lumps, real knots not so much.

 

[FuriousAngus]

there is a big difference between a bad shot/bump and real scar tissue.

bad shots you massage away maybe the muscle will be swollen and ugly for a week or so but its no thing.

then there are lumps that hang out for a bit, that may or may not have been bad shots, just lumps, sometimes they hurt sometimes they dont often they go away.

the real deal scars are in there and not leaving, if you inject into them it really sucks.

i have a shit ton of spots that i would love a knowledgeable art specialist to work on sadly i feel they are unicorn status. lol

go stick something!

LK, the one on my left shoulder is definitely not scar tissue because I have injected there less than 15 times my entire life. It's a result of a bad shot that just never went away (again, it's just a tiny little bump only visible in a very specific flexion position). It bothers me though because we're all perfectionist/narcissistic here, lol.

Man how long have you been doing this? I refuse to inject any site sooner than 14 days in between shots now.

 

[cricket_fire]

Cricket, I had the small lump/knot (it almost feels like a piece of metal under my skin that gets soft when I get into a hot shower or massage it a bit, goes softer the longer I go without training the muscle and harder the day after) ultra sounded and they showed no puss or fluid in there. The technician said it looks like it's a bunch of fat scattered across a couple inches.

Aspirating pulls nothing (I tried at least a dozen times) and I havent injected there in over a year so I really doubt it's a sterile abscess. However, I do know that it formed because of constant injections in that area over a long period of time. What do you make of this?

Honestly not sure; it sounds like it probably isn't an abscess from that description, but that's pretty far outside my scope of practice to determine something like that haha! Does it give you any problems with function/sensation, or is it strictly visual?

 

[FuriousAngus]

Honestly not sure; it sounds like it probably isn't an abscess from that description, but that's pretty far outside my scope of practice to determine something like that haha! Does it give you any problems with function/sensation, or is it strictly visual?

It doesn't hurt or restriction ROM in any way shape or form (strictly visual, and even then if I didn't feel it that one day I probably wouldn't have noticed it at all either).

I'm going to try to massage it under heat a bit everytime I'm in the shower. Hopefully it goes away eventually.

I've had in my lat (due to injecting the same shitty mexican Mast) that went away on its own after 4 months. I'm starting to think it's left over oil that didn't get absorbed for whatever reason...

 

[11sh11]

Cricket, I had the small lump/knot (it almost feels like a piece of metal under my skin that gets soft when I get into a hot shower or massage it a bit, goes softer the longer I go without training the muscle and harder the day after) ultra sounded and they showed no puss or fluid in there. The technician said it looks like it's a bunch of fat scattered across a couple inches.

Aspirating pulls nothing (I tried at least a dozen times) and I havent injected there in over a year so I really doubt it's a sterile abscess. However, I do know that it formed because of constant injections in that area over a long period of time. What do you make of this?

What you just said... about a technician calling it fatty deposits. These are an actual thing as well, called lipomas. Lipomas are not typically related to injections, are clusters of fat cells, are benign, but can be cut out. Then you will certainly have scar tissue from the procedure. https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/lipoma/symptoms-causes/syc-20374470
In my practice, I will see them almost always in men over 40, rarely in women, and never in the under 20 group. They can be as hard as a bean or a little bigger and doughy feeling, but always just under the skin. If it feels deeper, most likely IM. If its really bothering you, go see a dermatologist

 

[Girth]

Perhaps those I know are fortunate, or perhaps their scar tissue was never too significant. But I've seen it dissipated completely more than a few times.

How?, you ask.......It could be HYA, or Curc, methinks the latter. I don't know the extent of the OP's scar tissue in comparision, but in every case I know of "well", there was enough that it was crunchy.

Some guidelines that have kept it at bay as well include.....constantly using Curc with Lipo, HYA, never going above 1.5mL/depot(usually 1), and nothing larger than 25g for admin.

 

[FuriousAngus]

Perhaps those I know are fortunate, or perhaps their scar tissue was never too significant. But I've seen it dissipated completely more than a few times.

How?, you ask.......It could be HYA, or Curc, methinks the latter. I don't know the extent of the OP's scar tissue in comparision, but in every case I know of "well", there was enough that it was crunchy.

Some guidelines that have kept it at bay as well include.....constantly using Curc with Lipo, HYA, never going above 1.5mL/depot(usually 1), and nothing larger than 25g for admin.

What's HYA? And I take Curc pills ED. Are you talking about the injectible version?

 

[dale338]

I use a 23 gauge needle and inject twice weekly. I rotate as follows,

Glute, left side upper,
Glute right side upper,
Right thigh upper area
Left thigh upper,
Glute left side, lower area.
Glute ride side lower area
right thigh lower
Left thigh lower,

then repeat.

This means each injection location is only getting hit once every 5 weeks. Plenty of time to heal and no scar tissue.

It's also super helpful if you have someone to do your injections. Just lay back, close your eyes and relax. Doing it yourself, you're all tense and ripping muscle

 

[Girth]

Ditto to the previous as I think I came up with 32 sites that don't hurt. If I include those that do.......

As to the Curc, I won't speak to the oral, as I don't use it. I can only relay that those who HAVE used both say that sterile is MUCH better. MUCH might be quantified as in 100mg sterile per week, done once a week, beats oral done daily and done grams per day. Not my words, just relaying what I've been told.

I can say that the inclusion of Lipo with Curc sterile makes it all that much better.

HYA = hyaluronic acid. I can't say for sure that it's done anything to scar tissue, but to lumps, yes. If the scar tissue is solely what you are looking to remedy. The sterile curc with lipo is a cheap experiment that can only help your health. Thus, even if it doesn't work for you, at least your getting the benefits of a better immune system and clearer arteries. So you can't really "lose" even if it doesn't work! Seems like a no brainer in that regard.

 

[FuriousAngus]

Ditto to the previous as I think I came up with 32 sites that don't hurt. If I include those that do.......

As to the Curc, I won't speak to the oral, as I don't use it. I can only relay that those who HAVE used both say that sterile is MUCH better. MUCH might be quantified as in 100mg sterile per week, done once a week, beats oral done daily and done grams per day. Not my words, just relaying what I've been told.

I can say that the inclusion of Lipo with Curc sterile makes it all that much better.

HYA = hyaluronic acid. I can't say for sure that it's done anything to scar tissue, but to lumps, yes. If the scar tissue is solely what you are looking to remedy. The sterile curc with lipo is a cheap experiment that can only help your health. Thus, even if it doesn't work for you, at least your getting the benefits of a better immune system and clearer arteries. So you can't really "lose" even if it doesn't work! Seems like a no brainer in that regard.

I currently do..

Upper lats (L/R)
Lower lats (L/R)
VG (L/R)
Upper glutes (L/R)
Lower or mid glutes (L/R)

So assuming two injections a week (during cruise) that gives each injection site 6 weeks to heal before it gets another shot. I'm thinking of doing two sites on both calves and chest. Maybe include triceps as well but I'm terrified of injecting arms.

Where can I read more about injc. Curc and where can I buy HYA and Curc? I don't really have much scar tissue if any lumps are what's bothering me really. Can you tell me what your experience was with hyaluronic acid?

 

[LK3]

LK, the one on my left shoulder is definitely not scar tissue because I have injected there less than 15 times my entire life. It's a result of a bad shot that just never went away (again, it's just a tiny little bump only visible in a very specific flexion position). It bothers me though because we're all perfectionist/narcissistic here, lol.

Man how long have you been doing this? I refuse to inject any site sooner than 14 days in between shots now.

bro i have been injecting weird stuff for 15-20 years basically ed. lol

injections are literally more common then brushing my teeth. lol
weekly totals

sounds like you can make this go away.
i cant say exactly how as idk you or what you been doing but seems very solvable.

lipomas can be disolved with various things
before you go looking for more weird stuff to inject if i were you i would try to figure out the easy stuff...:lightbulb:

your schedule sucks.
shoot the muscle you will train that day before you go to the gym, thats rule 1.

then try to limit each depot to 1cc.
you can do bigger depots but they have higher chance to be ouchy or bad and do not get absorbed as fast.

use 1 inch pins or bigger, do not be afraid to go deep.
ppl using slin pins and all this other half ass im afraid to inject bull shit is a big part of the issues.

use 100mg/ml gear

go super slow and be gentle putting the pin in the more you move and more rough you are the more damage you do to the muscle.

my admins are usually

monday delts, rotate between 3 heads, typically done behind the muscle, like stabbing pin into floor. just by hitting the 3 dif heads you wont hit the same spot for 3 weeks, and then you just move half inch or so.

tues lats or bis usually lats the past few years giant muscle lots of room

thrs quads giant lots o room, hips wierd at first then great

fri tris or bis or hips if i didnt
my bis are a lil ouchy at this point so i dont hit them too often.

tris have lots of spots, horse shoe or long head

i have never done a true b button inject but do use a similar spot bottom of delt/tri area


do not shoot delts the way you are..
i am making an assumption but you prob just jab a pin into your delt like a goober dr... dont do that. you inject behind the delt straight down this way you get capped arms not lumpy delts.

art and science brotha.

and years of fucking up!

 

[LK3]

I currently do..

Upper lats (L/R)
Lower lats (L/R)
VG (L/R)
Upper glutes (L/R)
Lower or mid glutes (L/R)

So assuming two injections a week (during cruise) that gives each injection site 6 weeks to heal before it gets another shot. I'm thinking of doing two sites on both calves and chest. Maybe include triceps as well but I'm terrified of injecting arms.

Where can I read more about injc. Curc and where can I buy HYA and Curc? I don't really have much scar tissue if any lumps are what's bothering me really. Can you tell me what your experience was with hyaluronic acid?

also "cruising" bro... ehh. lol
gotta bite my tongue a lil
when taking it easy you should be trying to recover YOU sound pretty new and YOU prob should be trying to recover that hpta and not staying on test forever...

cruise... 50-100mg t wk
10 ish mg ed or slightly dif

admin is not 2x wk get that terrible idea out of your head

do A LOT more reading

 

[FuriousAngus]

also "cruising" bro... ehh. lol
gotta bite my tongue a lil
when taking it easy you should be trying to recover YOU sound pretty new and YOU prob should be trying to recover that hpta and not staying on test forever...

cruise... 50-100mg t wk
10 ish mg ed or slightly dif

admin is not 2x wk get that terrible idea out of your head

do A LOT more reading

I've been doing this for a few years. I cruise 8 months a year and blast 4. Currently on 140mg test/wk Mon Thurs and my test reads 800 (we all metabolize test at different rates). Why is that a bad idea? my HDL is in the low 70s and my LDL is in range, Tg under 50. E2 in range.

I was saying that I'm only doing bi weekly injections now because I don't need to do more, hence 6 weeks between hitting each spot again.

I didn't start injecting yesterday. I no longer have problems injecting stuff because I moved away from repeatedly injecting the same site or using high conc. gear (or gear I'm allergic to). I respect that you're trying to help and I really do appreciate your input but perhaps you were too quick to assume certain things about me.

Dr. John Crisler STILL does bi weekly injections, and he's one of the leading doctors in the field. I also do HCG at 300iu the day of or the day before my injections and that puts me around 1000ish.

 

[FuriousAngus]

bro i have been injecting weird stuff for 15-20 years basically ed. lol

injections are literally more common then brushing my teeth. lol
weekly totals

sounds like you can make this go away.
i cant say exactly how as idk you or what you been doing but seems very solvable.

lipomas can be disolved with various things
before you go looking for more weird stuff to inject if i were you i would try to figure out the easy stuff...:lightbulb:

your schedule sucks.
shoot the muscle you will train that day before you go to the gym, thats rule 1.

then try to limit each depot to 1cc.
you can do bigger depots but they have higher chance to be ouchy or bad and do not get absorbed as fast.

use 1 inch pins or bigger, do not be afraid to go deep.
ppl using slin pins and all this other half ass im afraid to inject bull shit is a big part of the issues.

use 100mg/ml gear

go super slow and be gentle putting the pin in the more you move and more rough you are the more damage you do to the muscle.

my admins are usually

monday delts, rotate between 3 heads, typically done behind the muscle, like stabbing pin into floor. just by hitting the 3 dif heads you wont hit the same spot for 3 weeks, and then you just move half inch or so.

tues lats or bis usually lats the past few years giant muscle lots of room

thrs quads giant lots o room, hips wierd at first then great

fri tris or bis or hips if i didnt
my bis are a lil ouchy at this point so i dont hit them too often.

tris have lots of spots, horse shoe or long head

i have never done a true b button inject but do use a similar spot bottom of delt/tri area


do not shoot delts the way you are..
i am making an assumption but you prob just jab a pin into your delt like a goober dr... dont do that. you inject behind the delt straight down this way you get capped arms not lumpy delts.

art and science brotha.

and years of fucking up!

LK3, thanks for sharing all of this. I actually do most (if not all) of this, except for a few points that I do no agree with you on (training the same muscle I inject causes swelling for me). The lump in my shoulder I got from bad gear (some kinda mexican masteron, it only took 1 shoot).

One in my leg is def due to repeatedly injecting the SAME EXACT SPOT. I did this when I first started and years later I still suffer the consequences. How I wish I could turn back time.

LK3 you sound like a war veteran.