Lets Talk...BETA BLOCKERS

pumpkinhead · Apr 29, 2013

ok guys so I know some of you are on blood pressure meds and other meds from your doctor. I am having a hell of a time finding the right one.

The reason I am on Beta blockers is not so much because of blood pressure, but because I need to control the spikes in blood pressure and heart rate due to a heart valve replacement I had back for the New year.

So far I have had nothing but nasty side effects , one very severe one that almost put me in the ER. So far I have tried the following:

Lopressor - 25mg (a.m)(p.m.) : total lack of sleep for weeks on end, no sex drive whatsoever.

Lopressor ER - 25mg (a.m) , Ace inhibitor (p.m) : sleep was better, but sex drive was still killed. Heart was not very controlled with the extended release only in the A.M.

Bistolic - 10mg (a.m) ace inhibitor (p.m): doctor said this one has the least sides, and he was right for 4 days. By the 5th day my joints where on fire, caused a onset of pericarditis (fluid in heart sac), Fever, Tomato Red face, hands swollen. Took 2 days to clear system, then everything back to normal.(doctor called it Drug induced lupus)

*with the failure of Beta blockers, we are now trying a CCB (calcium Channel blocker)

Cardizem Cd 180mg (a.m.) ace inhibitor (p.m) : with the Channel blocker I am noticing almost no control of my heart spikes (rate is very high), and have become extremely bloated along jaw line and neck and wrist.

**I stay on the ace inhibitor because it works well for me, with no side effects and keeps the BP low at night, but ace inhibitors do nothing for controlling heart rate or spikes in BP from the central nervous system. With the Valve replacement I can not have BP spikes, and ever since they put the valve in it causes my heart to race (100bpm)... the beta blockers are supposed to control that, and they do somewhat, but horrible horrible side effects for my body.

Anyone have ideas? anyone have any other beta blockers they took with minimal sides? I would assume as bodybuilders notice more sides due to the fact we tend to carry less Body fat and are more in tune with our bodies.. I don't know, or maybe my body is just super sensitive.

Stewie · Apr 29, 2013

Man I'm sure sorry your going through this

Was thinking about you the other day, wondering how you've been since we PM'd last.

Atenolol? Is it possible you may need an Ablation? I Douno, tossing thoughts out there.

pumpkinhead · Apr 29, 2013

I am willing to try anything. I really had high hopes for this bistolic. for the first 4 days I was feeling great, I finally thought to myself.."ok on the way back to normal"..then had a HORRIBLE reaction to it.... so frustrated.

the good news is my body is slowly getting back to normal... back up to about 270... not pushing to hard though, need to drop about 20lbs to be back down into the single digits with the old bodyfat, but 4 months post op I guess I cant hope for anymore, even though I am very hard on myself.

I will have to look up the ones you mentioned. Thanks for checking in Stewie. I almost stopped taking all my drugs the other day just because I am so fed up with it, but my wife could not take it if she lost me, so Like a good hubby I keep taking thoose nasty things

Stewie · Apr 29, 2013

Before switching up Meds ask your Cardiologist if he could humble you and check your urinary Magnesium levels, Serum can give a false indication of cellular Magnesium.

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Stewie · Apr 30, 2013

Bystolic, to a lesser extent is metabolized by the Enzyme CYP2D6. Take a look at the list and see if you are taking any of those that Induces CYP2D6 in which will speed the metabolism up of Bystolic, in other words it would be as if you didn't even take the drug or will have a minimal effect. Inhibitors of this Enzyme will have the opposed effect making the drug linger longer causing the drug to not clear building a potential overdose.

Long list of Inhibitors and Inducers of CYP3A4 and CYP2D6 - The Life Raft Group

Pay no attention to the drug *Gleevec* it's a Cancer drug, I just happened to have this bookmarked as inducers and inhibitors of CYP34A And CYP2D6. It's all the same.

If not you may just be a poor Metabolizer of Bystolic. I would still ask to have a Urinary Magnesium done.

pumpkinhead · Apr 30, 2013

interesting read.... I did notice on the list of inhibitors I was not on any at the moment, but I do take claritan and hydroxyzine each day for allergies...I did see another anti-histamine on the list, maybe same class?

if I was a poor metabolizer to bystolic, why did I have such a violent reaction(build up over a few days)?

Stewie · Apr 30, 2013

pumpkinhead said:
I am willing to try anything. I really had high hopes for this bistolic. for the first 4 days I was feeling great, I finally thought to myself.."ok on the way back to normal"..then had a HORRIBLE reaction to it.... so frustrated.

the good news is my body is slowly getting back to normal... back up to about 270... not pushing to hard though, need to drop about 20lbs to be back down into the single digits with the old bodyfat, but 4 months post op I guess I cant hope for anymore, even though I am very hard on myself.

I will have to look up the ones you mentioned. Thanks for checking in Stewie. I almost stopped taking all my drugs the other day just because I am so fed up with it, but my wife could not take it if she lost me, so Like a good hubby I keep taking thoose nasty things

And don't give up, it's easy for me to say, as I'm not in your shoes my friend. I can't even rap my mind around what you have been through. I just can't imagine how or where your mind is, be easy on yourself, before you know it this will be all behind you. Your a good dude, keep your head up my friend

Stewie · Apr 30, 2013

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CYP2D6 is considered a low-capacity, high-affinity enzyme and CYP2D6 will preferentially metabolize drugs at lower concentrations. As the concentration of a drug increases, the metabolism spills over to CYP3A4 and CYP1A2, which are high-capacity, low-affinity enzymes. Thus if a drug that has several metabolic pathways but relies on CYP2D6 as its major pathway is given to a patient with poor CYP2D6 activity, the other P450 enzymes that are high capacity, low affinity will clear the drug, but clearance will be slower and less efficient, and drug levels will increase, increasing the risk for adverse drug reactions.

It can go either way if you are a poor metabolizer. I'll have too look into the anti histamines.

kobefan234 · Apr 30, 2013

propranolol has worked well for me 20 mg

Hahtrod · Apr 30, 2013

I had to break the 10mg bystolic in half due to sides and then it was better. It took a month or so for them to go away altogether, mostly. I also use Benazapril 10 mg with it and together they have very little sides and keep my BP down. No sexual sides with these low doses. good luck to you my brother.

pumpkinhead · Apr 30, 2013

All very interesting ideas...

I myself last night thought about breaking the bystolic in half, since I loved it so much the first couple days. Was thinking along the lines of half dose till I can build up to a full dose....but I also had the idea of triggering the nasty sides I had on it, and how much I wanted to avoid that.

going to call my cardiologist today with suggestions in hand and see what he says...my guess, just another drug that wont work.

evser · Apr 30, 2013

I use short acting propranolol for random heart rate increases from extreme anxiety and it works so well. Brings heart rate down from 130-150 to 50bpm in like 20 minutes. No sides but if you take it to close to bed it does seem to fuck with sleep. However my sleep is always fucked anyway so don't take my word for it lol

pumpkinhead · Apr 30, 2013

evser said:
I use short acting propranolol for random heart rate increases from extreme anxiety and it works so well. Brings heart rate down from 130-150 to 50bpm in like 20 minutes. No sides but if you take it to close to bed it does seem to fuck with sleep. However my sleep is always fucked anyway so don't take my word for it lol

yea my problem is I need it to be in my system 24 hours a day.... due to mechanical valve in my heart (thats louder then piss by the way)... without it, my heart will beat at about 100-110bpm , at rest. Before surgery I was always around 70-75...

I would be even will to mix drugs if I could find one...
one that controls heart rate
one that controls BP like a hydroclorathiazide (my favorite BP med)

Big Barry · Apr 30, 2013

I remember being on 80mg Propranolol when I broke my leg. The doc was wondering why I was so chilled about it all. My heart rate was steady and slow like I wasn't bothered whatsoever!

When I told him I was on Propanolol he was like "Ah, that explains it."

It was literally impossible for me to panic on that stuff!

nikehotel · Apr 30, 2013

Zantac is the antidote to the bradykine build up that causes the sides, if it helps, it's cheap & OTC.

npcout · Apr 30, 2013

Coreg, 12.5mg twice a day (beta blocker)
5mg vasotec twice a day (ace)
12.5mg hctz (diuretic at night)

perfect combo for me, no sides.

maldorf · Apr 30, 2013

pumpkinhead said:
yea my problem is I need it to be in my system 24 hours a day.... due to mechanical valve in my heart (thats louder then piss by the way)... without it, my heart will beat at about 100-110bpm , at rest. Before surgery I was always around 70-75...

I would be even will to mix drugs if I could find one...
one that controls heart rate
one that controls BP like a hydroclorathiazide (my favorite BP med)

Since you have the artificial valve, are you also on Coumadin for life like me? Wondering how you are doing on that. Im doing great and take 6mg/day.

maldorf · Apr 30, 2013

npcout said:
Coreg, 12.5mg twice a day (beta blocker)
.

Yeah, that's what I take but I take the Coreg CR which is timed released and one cap lasts the whole day. I took the tabs you are taking and it really messed up my asthma, but the slow release seems to not peak so high. I suggest trying the Coreg CR.

marssel · Apr 30, 2013

maldorf said:
Yeah, that's what I take but I take the Coreg CR which is timed released and one cap lasts the whole day. I took the tabs you are taking and it really messed up my asthma, but the slow release seems to not peak so high. I suggest trying the Coreg CR.

Very true. Certain Beta Blockers can wreak havoc with asthma. They will also prevent Salbutamol inhalers working on the receptors. It can create life threatening situations!