Leydig Cell Desensitization, Runnin HCG without Nolva

[cutt29]

how long and how much HCG it would take to desensitize your leydig cellls?

on my last week of 500mg cyp/500mg eq runnin 250iu HCG ed with 20mg aromasin, gonna bump the HCG up to 500iu ed a week after my last shot and continue HCG at 500iu ed until clomid therapy 3 weeks after last shot, what do you guys think to much HCG without nolva or will I be ok?

total 5 weeks, 2 @ 250iu ed, 3 at 500iu ed 20mg aromasin, no nolva

 

[Jerkyboy]

I would wait 1-2 weeks AFTER your last shot before u start HCG. Cyp and EQ take at least 2 weeks to get out of your system. At those doses - and how much u took in the previous weeks- it could take up to 3-4.

No sense wasting the HCG trying to get your testes going when they are still being shut down by the AAS.

You can start the 20mg Aromasin/day for the last week of your shots though. Always good to get a jump on the estrogen levels.

HCG @ 250iu per day = 1750iu for that week
HCG @ 500iu per day = 3500iu for that week

No overstimulation going on here, thats below the usual dose of 5000iu per week.

If it was me I'd probably even go up to 700iu per day for a total of 4900iu for the week, then taper it down the next 1-2 weeks as I add the Clomid to the mix.

You will be fine with no nolvadex, aromasin does the job better anyway

(FYI- regular prescribed dose of Aromasin is only 10mg per day for a 200 pound male with estrogen problems) But as u know, each individual is different.

good luck

 

[The Wolf]

Ive been tolds by extremely reliable sources that its good to do hgc half way through a long cycle and then again at the end of the cycle. Please can somebody confirm this if you know it too.

 

[iron fist]

Ive been tolds by extremely reliable sources that its good to do hgc half way through a long cycle and then again at the end of the cycle. Please can somebody confirm this if you know it too.

Yes this is true. Usually its more advanced body builders that due this.
Mid cycle doses of hcg will help boost gains to a degree.

 

[The Wolf]

Well Ive done it half way through a 4 month cycle which the first month, I did deca and dianabol and the second I did sus and eq and when I took hgc, I felt so much better because I do know that mixing dianabol and deca can mess with your hpta as can the other stuff, so now Im on my 3rd part taking winstrol,primo and a lower dose of suss. I felt it gave me a good kick when I took it half way and I will do a proper pct after my cycle and competion.

 

[GoneForever]

I think HCG can be run for very very long without damaging leydig cells if used in low amounts. An HRT dr. told me that running hcg during HRT at 250-500iu 2x per week will help keep your sperm count up, so its more possible to have a child down the road.

 

[xcelbeyond]

You guys that think using HCG post cycle is "helping" need to quit fooling yourself. It'll keep your HPTA shut down, which is the OPPOSITE of what you're trying to accomplish during PCT. Big A will back me on this one.

Read:
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1190

 

[The Wolf]

Yes your right about the hpta level being shut but your hpta level is shut when your on a cycle anyway and thats why I said sometimes its good to take it half way, and also in the end so you can hold on to your gains. After your last pct your hpta levels would take at least 3 or 4 months to get back to normal weather you took hgc or not and also depending on what else you took.

 

[The Wolf]

Big A will back me on this one.

Read:
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1190

It was Big A who once told me to take Hgc when I sufferd from Azoospermia at one point.

http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16048&highlight=azoospermia

 

[KillerStack]

You guys that think using HCG post cycle is "helping" need to quit fooling yourself. It'll keep your HPTA shut down, which is the OPPOSITE of what you're trying to accomplish during PCT. Big A will back me on this one.

Read:
http://www.professionalmuscle.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1190

Yes but HCG has been used successfully to restore test production after steroid cycles. There are studies on pubmed on this. May not be ideal but it can work.

BTW, IIRC there is no feedback loop from HCG that suppresses LH directly.

 

[The Wolf]

Of course you need to restore test levels and hgc is ideal, whenever I take it my sex drive gos up the roof again so it cant be a bad thing and as for hpta levels well you have stay clean and off any gear for at least 3-4 months possibbly even 6-8 months. I might not be as much of an expert on bodybuilding as some people here but from my personal experiences with my endocrine, I do know a bit about what Im chatting about.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I think HCG can be run for very very long without damaging leydig cells if used in low amounts. An HRT dr. told me that running hcg during HRT at 250-500iu 2x per week will help keep your sperm count up, so its more possible to have a child down the road.

I know who your talking about fourthgen and thats par for the course for many advanced people in this sport as far as keeping testicular mass(and i feel very worthy advice)

 

[xcelbeyond]

I'm currently on "low dose" test and 500iu of HCG 1x EW keeps them as big as they ever get (which ain't huge but far from raisins - LOL).

 

[cutt29]

I think HCG can be run for very very long without damaging leydig cells if used in low amounts. An HRT dr. told me that running hcg during HRT at 250-500iu 2x per week will help keep your sperm count up, so its more possible to have a child down the road.

are you talking about running it with nolva as well?

 

[GoneForever]

I read a study a while back that said Nolva and hcg work well together keeping LH up,etc.... I don't always use nolva though, b/c im not that estro prone. Nolva will not hurt though.

 

[cutt29]

dont know what study you read as i am sure there are a few on the subject but nolva has been proven to limit or almost prevent any leydig celll desensitation and i was wondering if people had any knowledge or experiences of running HCG low dose for an extended perioid of time WITHOUT any nolva