Life after kratom?

[LK3]

You want to know how long it will take for you to go back to normal--to feel how you did BEFORE you started using it 2 years ago?

3-24 months.

You should feel significantly better after a few months, but it can take a year or two to repair the last bit of remaining damage you did to your brain's opioid system.

This is why I tell everyone that if they are going to use any type of opioid over the long-term, you must limit your frequency of use and dosage. You made both mistakes. In reality, it is fairly easy to avoid ending up in this situation if you follow a few simple rules.

One, you must simply prevent physical dependence, which normally means limiting usage to 4 days per week. This will have the dual-effect of preventing tolerance build-up, thereby eliminating the need to continue increasing the dose.

Opioids can be wonderful drugs when they are NOT abused.

ppl should REALLY pay attention here!

oppiates are very hard to deal with chemically much more so then other recs when recovering from abuse.

oh n 3-24 months...
some of us will never "feel" right. lol
hence all the chemical fuckery! lol ( pretty sure you know this MA, lol )

this is the longest time in my adult life that i have abstained from certain things, 16 months or so i dont think it will ever be easy.

 

[Kevinhy]

Some science on low dose naltrexone. I think anyone whose using opiates or with an inflammatory condition like Crohns should be aware of this stuff. Not very expensive, not a controlled substance, and pretty easy to procure from an overseas pharmacy (if you're US based).

Very low dose naltrexone addition in opioid detoxification: a randomized, controlled trial

Oxytrex minimizes physical dependence while providing effective analgesia: a randomized controlled trial in low back pain.

Adding ultralow-dose naltrexone to oxycodone enhances and prolongs analgesia: a randomized, controlled trial of Oxytrex.

Low-dose naltrexone therapy improves active Crohn's disease.

Fibromyalgia symptoms are reduced by low-dose naltrexone: a pilot study.

Pilot trial of low-dose naltrexone and quality of life in multiple sclerosis.

 

[LK3]

there are much smarter ways of delaing with those btm 3...:banghead:

 

[Kevinhy]

there are much smarter ways of delaing with those btm 3...:banghead:

Judging by the absolute nature of your statement you are not very familiar with Multiple Sclerosis. What "smarter" treatments are you referring to?

In any event, the point wasnt to de-rail the topic on "Life after Kratom", but rather to highlight a seldom discussed pharmacological approach that might be of use to people currently or previously suffering from opiate addiction. I touched on additional topics to show it isnt just a drug for detox.

 

[11111]

^

Yes.

There are actually at least a dozen substances--all legally obtainable without a prescription--that can be used to either completely or significantly eliminate withdrawal symptoms.

Mike would you be willing to list some of the substances you are referring to.
Thanks.

 

[macedog24]

I personally used gabapentin to get off kratom, was taking 8-10g a day.
The gabapentin took away every effect of withdrawal. Took it for 10 days 2x per day.
Not many people know about it but it was a life saver for the kratom withdrawals , plus it's not a scheduled substance so it's easily obtainable

Gabapentin is highly addictive and watch out for brain fog and brain zaps.
My son was taking gaba and started forgetting things. Started repeating himself alot . he would tell ya something and a few minutes later you would have a conversation and he would say something different about the convo.
We would tell him ( you just said blah blah blah) But he wouldn't remember saying anything and would get mad or upset. So just be careful. How much are you taking? He was taking 900 mg split up.

Sent from my LG-H910 using Tapatalk

 

[STEVO 47]

ppl should REALLY pay attention here!

oppiates are very hard to deal with chemically much more so then other recs when recovering from abuse.

oh n 3-24 months...
some of us will never "feel" right. lol
hence all the chemical fuckery! lol ( pretty sure you know this MA, lol )

this is the longest time in my adult life that i have abstained from certain things, 16 months or so i dont think it will ever be easy.

Absolutely ! I'm on my 3rd month off completely from two years of heavy dosing. After the first 6 days of physical withdrawals little did I know the long agonizing nightmare I was about to face. Severe depression and feeling of hopelessness that never seemed to go away. And yes Kratom effects the receptors in the brain that regulate mood in a big way. There were times I cried like a baby believing it would never end. So up to 2 years is no joke.

 

[LK3]

Absolutely ! I'm on my 3rd month off completely from two years of heavy dosing. After the first 6 days of physical withdrawals little did I know the long agonizing nightmare I was about to face. Severe depression and feeling of hopelessness that never seemed to go away. And yes Kratom effects the receptors in the brain that regulate mood in a big way. There were times I cried like a baby believing it would never end. So up to 2 years is no joke.

oppiates were never my thing and i have never tryed kratom, i just looked at the thread as someone pm'ed me about it.

the head issues have alot of symilarities, most of us who have abused various chems arrived at that point for a reason... i talk to a bunch of guys who all struggle with it too.

the key is being determind to stick with a program to really fix your head, its a lot of fucking work and it sucks. lol no way around it. that is why so many fail or try and try and try...

good for you bud!
stay with it

 

[LK3]

Judging by the absolute nature of your statement you are not very familiar with Multiple Sclerosis. What "smarter" treatments are you referring to?

In any event, the point wasnt to de-rail the topic on "Life after Kratom", but rather to highlight a seldom discussed pharmacological approach that might be of use to people currently or previously suffering from opiate addiction. I touched on additional topics to show it isnt just a drug for detox.

lol
brotha.. why do i have to spoon feed everything? lol
i made my statement as i have done a fair amount of research on ms and things symilar.

in real life there are actually 2 ppl with ms that i help as much as i can...

the problem is the things i know are not easy n not for everyone...

in my reading i actually found stuff written by a dr who had ms and was not happy with the medical options. ironically she was doing on her own and made on her own handful of the things i often post about...

read!

i sure have!
:lightbulb:

 

[LK3]

Mike would you be willing to list some of the substances you are referring to.
Thanks.

azsteel already posted some you can buy at cvs :lightbulb:

 

[chemical engineer]

My horror story. On about 10-20g a day for 2 years. All withdrawal symptoms that everyone has mentioned but one. My body stopped using the trt I was injecting. Double whammy!!!!! My gonads came out. I think quitting threw my body in chaos. After a few days of hell, I put some testosterone gel on and it helped ! This may be an individual thing. Just watch for it.
I am back on the white horse but only 2 or 3 grams Monday -Friday

 

[LK3]

a little more insite n why one might use those otc opiates...

opiates are very tricky as you have to deal with internal opiate/physical pain stuff. then the head stuff which is compacted with opiates as they work on both serotonin n dopamine.

one can ease off by using opiates that do not cross the bbb as that can ease physical side while you deal with the mental.

the dopamine side is really problematic as that is happyness or lack there of...

serotonin can be addressed easier.
my thinking is to use sups that actually help the body to make more rather then drugs that end up fucking with endo production.

dopamine side can be helped with some sups and or some drugs but in the end life stuff becomes problematic, fucking, fighting, eating, etc...

i find the mind fuck of the dopamine side is being miserable and dead inside while "normal" ppl get happy from normal life shit. lol this is the essence of the problem for most of us.

ok
done for today. lol
:welcome:

 

[2swole79]

a little more insite n why one might use those otc opiates...

opiates are very tricky as you have to deal with internal opiate/physical pain stuff. then the head stuff which is compacted with opiates as they work on both serotonin n dopamine.

one can ease off by using opiates that do not cross the bbb as that can ease physical side while you deal with the mental.

the dopamine side is really problematic as that is happyness or lack there of...

serotonin can be addressed easier.
my thinking is to use sups that actually help the body to make more rather then drugs that end up fucking with endo production.

dopamine side can be helped with some sups and or some drugs but in the end life stuff becomes problematic, fucking, fighting, eating, etc...

i find the mind fuck of the dopamine side is being miserable and dead inside while "normal" ppl get happy from normal life shit. lol this is the essence of the problem for most of us.

ok
done for today. lol
:welcome:

AGREE!
messing up serotonin feels like you've just got a case of the blues....Now, you go fuck up Dopamine for a good long while, to the point where "normal" life doesn't ever seem exciting or pleasurable, I'll speak for myself here, but it's more like a feeling or eternal "hopelessness". Recovery can be pretty tough, I solute any others out there going through these things. Keep fighting!

 

[Kevinhy]

lol
brotha.. why do i have to spoon feed everything? lol
i made my statement as i have done a fair amount of research on ms and things similar

the problem is the things i know are not easy n not for everyone...

:lightbulb:

Giving an answer to a bold claim you've made is spoon feeding? i can have a Skye video call with you right now with a room full a physicians who'd love to hear your novel approach you can't speak about.

 

[BALDNAZI]

I'm in the minority here but never understood why that shit was even allowed on here. Had a feeling from the beginning that guys would end up addicted and reading some of these posts it's more prevalent then I thought. Blast away but I'm happy I'm only hooked on Test...

 

[ubermensch]

I'm in the minority here but never understood why that shit was even allowed on here. Had a feeling from the beginning that guys would end up addicted and reading some of these posts it's more prevalent then I thought. Blast away but I'm happy I'm only hooked on Test...

I thought same thing, I remember people telling me Nubian was harmless now 15 years later I go suboxone clinic every month. There are no free lunches when comes to any drug.

 

[tenny]

lol....and just wait till all you vicaine guys are ready to off that....

 

[tenny]

yes MIKE....if you abuse it....

 

[Mike Arnold]

lol....and just wait till all you vicaine guys are ready to off that....

Sorry, but you're wrong...just like you were wrong earlier in the thread when you laughed about it taking up to 2 years to recover from severe opioid addiction (some people never fully recover), but this is normal with you...because you often act like you know what you're talking about when you don't know shit.

The substance in question (tianeptine) been in use for 50 years with a very small number (percentage wise) of addiction cases. Most use it with no problem whatsoever (unlike kratom, script opioids, etc). However, Vicaine has automatic, built-in factors which PREVENT one from using it to the point of significant physical dependence (you would know this if you knew anything about the product).

One of these is its stimulant-base (fluorinated modafinil, theacrine, caffeine), which prevents the user from using more than the recommended dose..because you can only use so many stimulants before it becomes a very uncomfortable experience.

Furthermore, Vicaine has compounds in the product which prevent tolerance build-up and physical dependence.

Lastly...and importantly, Vicaine has been out a few months now...and a LOT of guys are starting to report back. Many people have used it daily (something I advised against right on the bottle and all over online) for well over a month...and ran out (because I was out of stock for over a month). Guess what? Not one person reported experiencing withdrawals...and many specifically posted that they didn't experience any withdrawals.

So, once again, Tenny has no idea what he is talking about. But this is normal for people who spout off from the mouth when they have zero education on a particular subject. I bet Tenny doesn't know one thing about Vicaine--not any of the compounds in it, how it was designed, the clinical research behind the compounds in it, real-world experience, or anything else. Yet, Tenny is making claims out of his ass...like normal.


Of course, lets not mention the fact that bodybuilders all over this thread are addicted as fuck to amphetamines and other stimulants, which are WAY were for a bodybuilder's health (especially PED using bodybuilders). Tons of guys around here use super-high dose stim products before every workout, which places undue stress on their cardiovascular systems (increased bloodpressure and heart rate)...but that's OK...until they end up dead at age 45.

By the way, Vicaine's stimulant blend was designed to prevent significant increases in heart rate and blood pressure (clinical proof is available). Most guys will notice no increase in heart rate or blood pressure with the product.

 

[tenny]

its cool.....we will all find out sooner or later huh...??

I was waiting for you to say some shit....

its just a matter of time