*Living a VIRTUOUS LIFE!

Uriah · Mar 13, 2012

If you wear eyeglasses and have corrective surgery is this immorally wrong and vain?
If a Woman has breast cancer and has reconstructed surgery does this make it wrong?
Your either Christian or your not! There's no degrees by which you are classified.
I don't become less Christian because I do things to make myself look better!
This kind of thinking is nothing but Christian Legalism with man made laws.
Legalism, in Christian theology, is a pejorative term referring to an over-emphasis on law or codes of conduct, or legal ideas, usually implying an allegation of misguided rigor, pride, superficiality, the neglect of mercy, and ignorance of the grace of God or emphasizing the letter of law over the spirit. Legalism is alleged against any view that obedience to law, not faith in God's grace, is the pre-eminent principle of redemption. It's opposite error is antinomianism, which is alleged against a view that moral laws are not bonding.

hotnuts · Mar 13, 2012

BigNShredded said:
Then the primary philosophical question is: Is it IMMORAL or UNVIRTUOUS to knowingly harm oneself, even if it results in a greater quality of life for YOU and YOUR FAMILY?

Maybe this is the real question!

hotnuts · Mar 13, 2012

Uriah said:
If you wear eyeglasses and have corrective surgery is this immorally wrong and vain?
If a Woman has breast cancer and has reconstructed surgery does this make it wrong?
Your either Christian or your not! There's no degrees by which you are classified.
I don't become less Christian because I do things to make myself look better!
This kind of thinking is nothing but Christian Legalism with man made laws.
Legalism, in Christian theology, is a pejorative term referring to an over-emphasis on law or codes of conduct, or legal ideas, usually implying an allegation of misguided rigor, pride, superficiality, the neglect of mercy, and ignorance of the grace of God or emphasizing the letter of law over the spirit. Legalism is alleged against any view that obedience to law, not faith in God's grace, is the pre-eminent principle of redemption. It's opposite error is antinomianism, which is alleged against a view that moral laws are not bonding.

Was this directed toward me? I honestly cant tell but I will tell you that I never once said there are different levels of Christianity. You are correct...you are full on or not at all. I am not sure where your eye glass or breast cancer analogy was going because I think we can all agree that there are acceptable medical purposes for everything you mentioned. Pumping yourself full of anabolics I guess will be left for the individual to decide whether you think its moral or immoral. Being legal is only one part of the equation....so whomever said if taking steroids is legal in your country is it moral? From a legal stand point maybe, but taking more than HRT level to get big I guess will be left for you to decide. Remember....I do the same stuff everyone else on here does. Im not saying I am this and you are that. We all do the same shit.....the question was do you think it is morally right? At the end of the day it really doesnt matter because this thread isnt changing anyone justification for the things we do. I will say it was interesting to hear everyones fucked up thought process! Just kidding.....good day fellas!

Bio · Mar 13, 2012

hotnuts said:
Obviously you just don't get it and unfortunately I don't have the time to break it down to a 4th grade level so we will just leave it at that. If you think you are a moral saints because you take anabolics for aesthetic purposes than you have serious issues and are more than likely very confused. I take steroids for the same reasons as everyone else on this board but that doesn't make it morally right. To simplify the definition of morality is right from wrong. If its illegal than its immoral! Steroids are drugs whether you want to believe it or not. Drugs that are prescribed by your doctor in reasonable amounts to make you healthy or normal is moral. Taking huge amounts that you know is causing harm to your body is immoral. This is fact....not bro science. Read the Dr. G thread and he confirms what I'm saying. I know everyone on this board is not buying into your bs about morality. This is common sense in the simplest form. Take huge amounts of steroids is immoral in more ways than one. Taking pain meds after surgery that your doc provides is moral. Taking pain meds by the handfuls to get high is immoral! Can you please explain the difference between the two......because there is no difference between huge amounts of pain meds and huge amounts of anabolics. You take them for the wrong reasons and we continue to do so no matter how you try and justify it. Round 3 ding!

C'mon people don't be scared to go against the bns grain.

Obviously you just don't get it and unfortunately I don't have the time to break it down to a 4th grade level

Proper response from a christian moralist! When you can't explain yourself, just take cheap shots at others in order to deflect from the subject matter!

If you think you are a moral saints because you take anabolics for aesthetic purposes than you have serious issues and are more than likely very confused.

When and where did I ever imply that I was a moral saint because I take anabolics? Talk about sounding ridiculous and absurd! You're right about one thing, I am confused! But only in regards to your response!! Please answer the question I just asked...Where did I ever say anything that would make you imply such a thing??

To simplify the definition of morality is right from wrong.

Right and wrong is subjective! Is killing someone wrong? What if it's in defense of your family...Say somebody comes home to find an intruder raping his wife...He has a gun and in the struggle the intruder is killed?? Where's your moral compass on this one??

If its illegal than its immoral!

Like another member said, so in a country where AAS is legal then it's moral? Is the morality based on the dose where it's legal?? If it became legal in the US then it would suddenly become moral or again, is that a dose dependent question??

This is common sense in the simplest form. Take huge amounts of steroids is immoral in more ways than one.

By your earlier posts, you are implying that anything more than TRT or HRT is immoral? So, anything above that is considered "...huge amounts of steroids..."? This is your definition of morality in regards to AAS??

Can you please explain the difference between the two......because there is no difference between huge amounts of pain meds and huge amounts of anabolics. You take them for the wrong reasons and we continue to do so no matter how you try and justify it.

That's your opinion! I don't think someone is immoral because they have the disease of addiction or pass judgment on them because of their initial decision to try alcohol or drugs or AAS, etc!! How does this define their moral character?

Also, I'm not trying to justify AAS use as you implied! I don't have a moral issue with it!!

Bio · Mar 13, 2012

hotnuts said:
Was this directed toward me? I honestly cant tell but I will tell you that I never once said there are different levels of Christianity. You are correct...you are full on or not at all. I am not sure where your eye glass or breast cancer analogy was going because I think we can all agree that there are acceptable medical purposes for everything you mentioned. Pumping yourself full of anabolics I guess will be left for the individual to decide whether you think its moral or immoral. Being legal is only one part of the equation....so whomever said if taking steroids is legal in your country is it moral? From a legal stand point maybe, but taking more than HRT level to get big I guess will be left for you to decide. Remember....I do the same stuff everyone else on here does. Im not saying I am this and you are that. We all do the same shit.....the question was do you think it is morally right? At the end of the day it really doesnt matter because this thread isnt changing anyone justification for the things we do. I will say it was interesting to hear everyones fucked up thought process! Just kidding.....good day fellas!

That's all I was trying to say! Thank you for breaking it down to 4th grade level me!!

hotnuts · Mar 13, 2012

Bio said:
That's all I was trying to say! Thank you for breaking it down to 4th grade level me!!

My pleasure...let me know if you need help with anything else. I think for some reason you are under the impression that my post was directed at you....but you are wrong. I don't know you and I am sure you are a great guy as most of us are. I was trying to be subjective at best. If you took offense to anything I said then I apologize.....I guess some are more sensitive than others. BNS takes a beating on these threads every day.....takes it like a man though....he has the toughest skin of anyone on this board. He gets on my nerves sometimes but I still like the guy and think he is very intertaining. I will try not to hurt your feelings anymore....I am sorry!

Bio · Mar 13, 2012

hotnuts said:
My pleasure...let me know if you need help with anything else. I think for some reason you are under the impression that my post was directed at you....but you are wrong. I don't know you and I am sure you are a great guy as most of us are. I was trying to be subjective at best. If you took offense to anything I said then I apologize.....I guess some are more sensitive than others. BNS takes a beating on these threads every day.....takes it like a man though....he has the toughest skin of anyone on this board. He gets on my nerves sometimes but I still like the guy and think he is very intertaining. I will try not to hurt your feelings anymore....I am sorry!

Thank you! I'm a lucky guy!!

TNH · Mar 13, 2012

What's morally right and wrong seems to be quite subjective.
My personal beliefs(put verysimply) are that anything that hurts someone else is immoral.
I feel that anything that you do that hurts yourself is immoral too, but it is your own choice, and is not as immoral as hurting another. So I feel that there are levels of morality.
I do feel that using hormones in any dosage more than prescribed HRT is not healthy for you, so it is immoral in a sense. I feel it is very low on my personal scale of morality, and it is something I am willing to do that I don't feel too badly about.
Pondering life in general makes me think about things like this often. For me, it seems that everything that is fun, enjoyable, or interests me is harmful in some way. So many of the things that I enjoy are dangerous to my health and safety.... makes me wonder if life is some sort of test to see how well you can control yourself, or if you are free to do as you wish, so long as you don't harm others. I would like to think it is the latter.

I feel that if I truly tried to become as spiritually advanced as possible, and attempt to completely shed my ego, using hormones would most definitely need to stop..... I don't know if I have the willpower (or I should say strong enough desire) to do that.

maldorf · Mar 13, 2012

BigNShredded said:
Sorry, but this is racking my brain lol...

Are you saying that HRT is morally acceptable, but anything more than 200mg/week is somehow morally unacceptable? I just don't see the logic. What makes having higher hormone levels IMMORAL? Because you are stronger and more muscular than normal people? That's wrong? Who are you affecting?

I think the only time it becomes immoral is when its used in a sport where it is banned and the athlete hides the use somehow. That is immoral.

Now I do think abusing steroids is a selfish and reckless thing to do, but its still not immoral. I think the only thing that would make using steroids immoral would be if you were speding a lot of the family's money on it and your wife and children suffered for it because of that. That would be immoral.

Just thought of one scenario involoving steroids that would qualify as being immoral and I am guilty of it. Taking steroids that leads to serious health problems or death affects your entire family and even if youre young and are not married with kids it still negatively impacts your sinblings and parents etc.

hotnuts · Mar 13, 2012

TNH said:
What's morally right and wrong seems to be quite subjective.
My personal beliefs(put verysimply) are that anything that hurts someone else is immoral.
I feel that anything that you do that hurts yourself is immoral too, but it is your own choice, and is not as immoral as hurting another. So I feel that there are levels of morality.
I do feel that using hormones in any dosage more than prescribed HRT is not healthy for you, so it is immoral in a sense. I feel it is very low on my personal scale of morality, and it is something I am willing to do that I don't feel too badly about.
Pondering life in general makes me think about things like this often. For me, it seems that everything that is fun, enjoyable, or interests me is harmful in some way. So many of the things that I enjoy are dangerous to my health and safety.... makes me wonder if life is some sort of test to see how well you can control yourself, or if you are free to do as you wish, so long as you don't harm others. I would like to think it is the latter.

I feel that if I truly tried to become as spiritually advanced as possible, and attempt to completely shed my ego, using hormones would most definitely need to stop..... I don't know if I have the willpower (or I should say strong enough desire) to do that.

I agree with everything you said in your post! Finally, the voice of logic and reason. Okay...I'm officially done debating this but I had a great time. Happy nobody got their panties in a permanent wad.

Crowler · Mar 13, 2012

TNH said:
What's morally right and wrong seems to be quite subjective.
My personal beliefs(put verysimply) are that anything that hurts someone else is immoral.
I feel that anything that you do that hurts yourself is immoral too, but it is your own choice, and is not as immoral as hurting another. So I feel that there are levels of morality.
I do feel that using hormones in any dosage more than prescribed HRT is not healthy for you, so it is immoral in a sense. I feel it is very low on my personal scale of morality, and it is something I am willing to do that I don't feel too badly about.
Pondering life in general makes me think about things like this often. For me, it seems that everything that is fun, enjoyable, or interests me is harmful in some way. So many of the things that I enjoy are dangerous to my health and safety.... makes me wonder if life is some sort of test to see how well you can control yourself, or if you are free to do as you wish, so long as you don't harm others. I would like to think it is the latter.

I feel that if I truly tried to become as spiritually advanced as possible, and attempt to completely shed my ego, using hormones would most definitely need to stop..... I don't know if I have the willpower (or I should say strong enough desire) to do that.

I find it interesting that we all seem to have our own definition of immoral. For me if it doesn't hurt others or do damage to what God would want for us it is not immoral.

When you say hurt yourself what does that mean?

Doing very high levels of aas and giving yourself a heart attack I can see.

But what about pushing yourself so hard in a triathlon that you need IV fluids when you finish. Or pushing even harder so you have to be physically removed from the course.

What about Payton Manning going against Drs advice and trying to pursue football.

Or what about army ranger candidates who go sleep deprived for days which many now believe causes them permanent damage even if they never make it to become a Ranger and never sees combat. Or pushing their injuries so far they develop arthritis in their knee or ankle joints and yet never even pass the Ranger test.

They have caused themselves irreversible damage for no forsee-able good.
is that immoral.

Uriah · Mar 13, 2012

hotnuts said:
Was this directed toward me? I honestly cant tell but I will tell you that I never once said there are different levels of Christianity. You are correct...you are full on or not at all. I am not sure where your eye glass or breast cancer analogy was going because I think we can all agree that there are acceptable medical purposes for everything you mentioned. Pumping yourself full of anabolics I guess will be left for the individual to decide whether you think its moral or immoral. Being legal is only one part of the equation....so whomever said if taking steroids is legal in your country is it moral? From a legal stand point maybe, but taking more than HRT level to get big I guess will be left for you to decide. Remember....I do the same stuff everyone else on here does. Im not saying I am this and you are that. We all do the same shit.....the question was do you think it is morally right? At the end of the day it really doesnt matter because this thread isnt changing anyone justification for the things we do. I will say it was interesting to hear everyones fucked up thought process! Just kidding.....good day fellas!

Wow, Unbelievable bud! If I was directing this to anyone it would have been quoted to that individual. This was just my take on this and meant no ill feelings. If I try to explain any further it would just create more drama. By the way entertaining starts with an E and not an I. Learned this in third grade

osiris · Mar 13, 2012

Johnny Ringo said:
Well Stated Ross.. Like you said MOST are not willing to put in the time and effort to make changes:banghead:

Johnny Ringo

Change is scary jr, I know when I had to find a whole new way of life, it was because I had hit rock bottom, not because I wanted to. Now I try to change and become a little better person every day

Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

oktome · Mar 13, 2012

good thread

Self control is the most important element to living a life of virtue but the most difficult.

Add money in the mix and then self control becomes harder.

Elvia1023 · Mar 13, 2012

desibaba said:
Is it wrong/immoral for a 55 year old man to date and have sex with a 18 year old girl who still lives with her parents? Its legal but is it "Unvirtuous"?

No he is just lucky

hotnuts · Mar 13, 2012

Uriah said:
Wow, Unbelievable bud! If I was directing this to anyone it would have been quoted to that individual. This was just my take on this and meant no ill feelings. If I try to explain any further it would just create more drama. By the way entertaining starts with an E and not an I. Learned this in third grade

Thank you for the spelling lesson! Actually, I meant to spell interesting but when typing on my iPhone it tends to spell whatever it wants. I do find it "entertaining" that out of all of the back and forth you picked up on a mis typed word instead of something smart or witty. Better luck next time bud! Is that you in your avatar? I thought so, now think of something good before responding and try to use lots of big words like your first post so you seem smarter than you actually are.

Uriah · Mar 14, 2012

hotnuts said:
Thank you for the spelling lesson! Actually, I meant to spell interesting but when typing on my iPhone it tends to spell whatever it wants. I do find it "entertaining" that out of all of the back and forth you picked up on a mis typed word instead of something smart or witty. Better luck next time bud! Is that you in your avatar? I thought so, now think of something good before responding and try to use lots of big words like your first post so you seem smarter than you actually are.

Pretty much the response I would expect from a simple minded person. Try looking up the words on your iPhone and maybe it might simplified things for you. I do feel sorry for you however and hope you can find some joy and peace in your life one day before its too late.

hotnuts · Mar 14, 2012

Uriah said:
Pretty much the response I would expect from a simple minded person. Try looking up the words on your iPhone and maybe it might simplified things for you. I do feel sorry for you however and hope you can find some joy and peace in your life one day before its too late.

Lol....if you only knew! As someones signature says, "it's only the internet....relax!". I can see you are easily riled which makes it more fun. Btw....you could only dream of my life! I'm done with you...have a good night.

Pharm_Fed · Mar 14, 2012

Uriah said:
Pretty much the response I would expect from a simple minded person. Try looking up the words on your iPhone and maybe it might simplified things for you. I do feel sorry for you however and hope you can find some joy and peace in your life one day before its too late.

hotnuts said:
Lol....if you only knew! As someones signature says, "it's only the internet....relax!". I can see you are easily riled which makes it more fun. Btw....you could only dream of my life! I'm done with you...have a good night.

This has been a good thread, could the two of you please not ruin it with childish bickering. Thanks.