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Long-term Effects of Trenbolone? (After Getting Off Completely)

Kaladryn

right now im running my pct of nolva and clomid. i am 2 weeks into my pct.

im not getting morning wood, though i had it one night last week. i suspected my estrogen could be really high and decided to use 12.5mg aromasin last night to see how i felt today and if it would bring back my libido. just letting you know, i know when my estrogen is real low when i feel horrible...i feels like nothing much has changed so would you think that my levels are quite high and that i need to bring them further down? my boys are coming back full but my sex drive isnt quite there. what do you think?
 
There is a basic misunderstanding here about how aromatase works and how the competitive inhibition of these enzymes works. The reversible competitive inhibitors (anastrozole and letrozole) compete for the aromatase enzyme with testosterone, they are constantly bonding and unbonding with the enzyme, while they are bonded, the enzyme can't accept testosterone. The suicidal 3rd generation AI, exemestane, does the same thing, but it stays bonded to the enzyme. What you have to understand is, at BEST, all three of these AIs are reducing aromatase activity by 60-70%. This is because your body is constantly making more aromatase. Exemestane isn't stronger than adex or letro, it's actually a little weaker (mainly due to it's extremely short halflife in men, 9 hours). Exemestane is binding to aromatase, and shutting it down, however your body is just making more aromatase. The "rebound" from stopping an AI is from the fact that your body started making more aromatase, which is true for all the AIs.

Also remember, AIs work much differently in men than in women. In men they have less than half the halflife, and they don't wipe out E2 at all, they reduce it by around 50%. All this info can be found in a few recent studies done on men and AIs.

So if exemestane permanently removes aromatase, isn't it preferable to letrozole and anastrozole, which bind to aromatase only temporarily?
 
Most guys should save the money on after cycle pct meds and buy lots of steak... and maybe some folli :)

By the way you have my award for best 1st post on promuscle. Usually you just get hi and I want to bulk up :) Good thought provoking question.

I would say tren is very harsh both physicaly and mentally. So recovery will take longer after cycle. I would run test alittle longer than tren. Although I know many who use tren alone and get great results (less sides than test and tren too).

Everyone is different. I know many who have had issues with anger during and after a cycle. Injecting such powerful hormones into your body can effect many even after a cycle. I feel tren was a catalyst to my recent panic attacks... I have spoken to many who feel the same (they got severe panic/anxiety on tren).

I would say alittle goes along way. So limit your dose in the future so recovery should be fine.
 
right now im running my pct of nolva and clomid. i am 2 weeks into my pct.

im not getting morning wood, though i had it one night last week. i suspected my estrogen could be really high and decided to use 12.5mg aromasin last night to see how i felt today and if it would bring back my libido. just letting you know, i know when my estrogen is real low when i feel horrible...i feels like nothing much has changed so would you think that my levels are quite high and that i need to bring them further down? my boys are coming back full but my sex drive isnt quite there. what do you think?

I'm no expert on PCT, but I can say this, if you don't have a lot of free testosterone in your system to aromatize, then you don't need very much AI. After 2-3x the halflife of your test ester, you will have very little left to aromatize, and just a little aromasin should crush E2.

So if exemestane permanently removes aromatase, isn't it preferable to letrozole and anastrozole, which bind to aromatase only temporarily?

Not really, because the studies show the end result is about the same. With the reversible AIs, some test ends up binding eventually, but with exemestane, the whole aromatase/exemestane complex is destroyed after it binds, this causes you to express more aromatase, which then ends up finding testosterone to bind to, or more exemestane. So it IS competitive in a way, it's just whoever gets there first.

There are other reasons why exemestane might be the best AI, like it seems to have less effect on HDL, and it doesn't inhibit sulfatase like anastrozole does, and doesn't kill sex drive like letro does (even if you don't tank E2 letro can kill some people's sex drive).
 
Id love to get TRT it'll be awsome. but lets see if ur levels go up naturally lets see what goes on bro best of luck

Thanks for the good words. I hope that it does, too.

What about this:

1. Start taking exemestane from researchstop to kill any aromatase enzyme you have lurking around.
2. Inject 100mcg of triptorelin from ergopep.
3. Continue taking exemestane.

When you come off, report on how everything is faring. This is just me hypothesizing, but wouldn't permanently killing aromatase activity while restarting your HPTA with trip give you the boost you're looking for?

Could it be that the clomid restarts boost your testosterone, but that in turn increases your aromatase activity and thus your estrogen, so when you come off the clomid you end up getting shutdown again?

After all, your bloodwork shows that your estrogen is high. So instead of boosting your testosterone by blocking your estrogen receptors (which dooms you to failure when you come off), why don't you go after the root of the problem and block the estrogen from being created in the first place?

I've never done this myself, so I can't comment on its efficacy. I'm just thinking aloud here.

These are good ideas. Thanks for the lead on triptorelin. I'd never heard of it, until now. The research looks promising.

What you said about taking exemestane is a good idea, too, given my estrogen levels and sexual performance/libido issues.

I'm about 1 week into running 0.5 mg of anastrozole (arimidex) per day, and there were some really concerning side effects for the last few days. Mostly, chronic and persistent ED that was unresponsive to PED 5 inhibitors, in addition to joint pain. Today was an improvement, though. The joint pain is mostly gone (no cracking in back, etc), and I had a great erection just a few hours ago. I had taken 20 mg cialis this morning with 0.3 mg of pramipexole. This means that my estrogen must be too low. I'll see if I have a morning erection, tomorrow.

Tomorrow, I have my first appointment with Dr. Lerner from Cedars Sinai at his office. Whether this guy is a fossil who won't treat me, or not, has yet to be seen. All I know is that he's highly recommended by some, not so much by others.

I'll get lab work done, regardless, to include my estrogen, prolactin, free and total testosterone, LH and FSH. My thyroid has been giving normal numbers, and I don't have a brain tumor.

I think that what I'll do is this:
if my numbers come back off, tomorrow, then I'll consider taking the triptorelin.

If the triptorelin does not work, I'll try a 3 month cycle of low dose TRT level testosterone to see if that can alleviate my symptoms. According to research,

"The problem is that low testosterone guys do not fully activate the dense network of androgen receptors at the base of the penis and then those muscles get out of shape. It is these muscles that constrict and hold the blood in the penis once Nitric Oxide has done its job. If you're not getting nightly erections, you are also not oxygenating the penile tissue, which is also critical for the health of your sex life. Remember that it will probably take anywhere from one to three months for these muscles to build up once you get your testosterone levels to where they should be and actually improve any erectile dysfunction that you may be experiencing.

How to Improve Erectile Dysfunction "

Also, if you don't know about it, there's a new peptide out there that causes increased libido and erectile function, similar to melanotan II, but without the tanning effect. It's called "Bremelanotide," or PT-141. I ordered some from extreme peptide, last night. It stimulates the melanocortin receptors in the brain (hypothalamus), and causes increased libido by triggering descending neural signals (nerve impulses) to the penis.

I ordered some exemestane to go with it, too. It seems to be better than anastrozole in many ways.

Thanks for all the replies!
 
Last edited:
I just got home from my appointment with Dr. Lerner, where we had a long talk, and got some things sorted out.

First, he said that it's great that I responded to clomiphene with increased testosterone levels.

Second, he said that it's great that I self-treated with clomiphene, and that I've now started anastrozole (arimidex).

Third, he wants me to continue taking arimidex (0.5 mg every third day), and to adjust my dose, as necessary.

In one month, I'll go in for blood work and pending those results, we'll discuss further treatment options.

On a personal note, I'm feeling a lot better since getting onto arimidex. My sex drive is up, and my ED is manageable. Estrogen is playing a part in my symptoms, it seems.
 
Last edited:
I just got home from my appointment with Dr. Lerner, where we had a long talk, and got some things sorted out.

First, he said that it's great that I responded to clomiphene with increased testosterone levels.

Second, he said that it's great that I self-treated with clomiphene, and that I've now started anastrozole (arimidex).

Third, he wants me to continue taking arimidex (0.5 mg every third day), and to adjust my dose, as necessary.

In one month, I'll go in for blood work and pending those results, we'll discuss further treatment options.

On a personal note, I'm feeling a lot better since getting onto arimidex. My sex drive is up, and my ED is manageable. Estrogen is playing a part in my symptoms, it seems.

Thats good to know. Keep us posted how things go.
 

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