Lots of guys with high hemoglobin

[ColtSSBR]

Just to be clear, 200mg/week of test will put a decent sized person at around 1200-1300 total testosterone, this is about DOUBLE what a normal TRT dose would be.

Depends on the person and how they react to the Test.

Also, the TRT dosage protocol really depends on the TRT clininc (etc).
Some offer a max of 400mg Test Cyp/200mg Nandrolone a week.

 

[10brandonr]

Some things I wish I had heard about before my clot. Now Im on coumadin, so Im covered. I must admit that Ive never heard of naringin. Ive heard of reseveratrol, but know nothing of it. Are these two substances prescription only or can you get over the counter? Perhaps expand on these two if you could. I for one would like to hear more, I think some guys on here would like to know too.

Naringin is supposedly the flavonoid in grapefruit that causes the lowering Hematocrit. It works by causing red blood cells to clump, these clumped red blood cells are removed from circulation by phagocytes, causing a lower Hematocrit.

Resveratrol is the polyphenol found in red wine that reduces cardiovascular risk. It prevent platelet aggregation in a similar matter to aspirin and coumadin, but also has a lot of other health benefits.

Both are OTC supplements that can be found at most health stores.

 

[cra16]

You don't really see this stuff discussed on many BB forums. I remember how my first visit here changed my AAS use and the more I learn of the real side effects the less gear I learn to grow on.

I get estrogenic sides so low test and medium masteron for me and way way more down time

 

[summersgold]

These blood tests are an unreliable way of forecasting possible heart attacks. This isn't my opinion, this is the opinion of 2 cardiologists that were on the Larry King show about a year ago when that NBC newscaster Tim Russert died of a massive heart attack when he was only in his 50's. His own doctor was on that show also and said all his blood work was normal. The cardiologists said the only way to predict heart problems was to check the condition of your coronary arteries. The most accurate way is with a calcium CT scan. But this puts alot of radiation into your chest. They said another way is to get an ultrasound test of your carotid arteries in your neck. It is called a carotid intimal medial thickness test. If the thickness is below a certain number, then your coronary arteries should be OK. There is a direct relation between the two.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

Some things I wish I had heard about before my clot. Now Im on coumadin, so Im covered. I must admit that Ive never heard of naringin. Ive heard of reseveratrol, but know nothing of it. Are these two substances prescription only or can you get over the counter? Perhaps expand on these two if you could. I for one would like to hear more, I think some guys on here would like to know too.

=active ingredient in grapefruit study I posted.....you need to be very cautious with that naringin advice Maldorf as you are on coumadin and it can have a pronounced effect on many drugs i.e. calcium channel blockers; estrogen supplements; sedatives; high blood pressure medications; and cholesterol-lowering medications.

Reseveratrol you can get in any health food store as with Naringin but I would go with the ruby red grapefruit route if you were going to try it and I would be cautious.....if i was you.

 

[maldorf]

Just to be clear, 200mg/week of test will put a decent sized person at around 1200-1300 total testosterone, this is about DOUBLE what a normal TRT dose would be.

Yeah, I know. I cant tell you how sick I am of seeing guys post on here that they are doing 200-250mg/wk and that its HRT. There is noway in hell that any honest physician that truly cared for the patient would prescribe that.

 

[maldorf]

Naringin is supposedly the flavonoid in grapefruit that causes the lowering Hematocrit. It works by causing red blood cells to clump, these clumped red blood cells are removed from circulation by phagocytes, causing a lower Hematocrit.

Resveratrol is the polyphenol found in red wine that reduces cardiovascular risk. It prevent platelet aggregation in a similar matter to aspirin and coumadin, but also has a lot of other health benefits.

Both are OTC supplements that can be found at most health stores.

thanks for that. To me it sounds like good healthy alternatives for people that dont have serious health problems. This would be good prevention.

 

[maldorf]

These blood tests are an unreliable way of forecasting possible heart attacks. This isn't my opinion, this is the opinion of 2 cardiologists that were on the Larry King show about a year ago when that NBC newscaster Tim Russert died of a massive heart attack when he was only in his 50's. His own doctor was on that show also and said all his blood work was normal. The cardiologists said the only way to predict heart problems was to check the condition of your coronary arteries. The most accurate way is with a calcium CT scan. But this puts alot of radiation into your chest. They said another way is to get an ultrasound test of your carotid arteries in your neck. It is called a carotid intimal medial thickness test. If the thickness is below a certain number, then your coronary arteries should be OK. There is a direct relation between the two.

the gold standard is always going to be a cath. The cath will show blockages the best. What we are discussing here though has nothing to do with slow build up of plaque in the coronary arteries. What we are talking about is blood clot risk, like what happend to me. I had no blockages whatsoever in any of my coronary arteries and needed no bypass and not even a single stent. My blockage was 100% blood in a giant clot. Your disposition to clot can be tested reliably with DNA tests and the coagulability panel, but its costly so docs dont prescribe doing it unless there is some sort of family history or health problem. SO because of this, when you get a clot you have no prior knowledge of your risk.

 

[GBL]

just wanted to say thanks to Maldorf for information like this.It truly shows you care about the next guy.

thanks for the answering my PM bro,you were very helpful

 

[juicin]

Naringin is supposedly the flavonoid in grapefruit that causes the lowering Hematocrit. It works by causing red blood cells to clump, these clumped red blood cells are removed from circulation by phagocytes, causing a lower Hematocrit.

Resveratrol is the polyphenol found in red wine that reduces cardiovascular risk. It prevent platelet aggregation in a similar matter to aspirin and coumadin, but also has a lot of other health benefits.

Both are OTC supplements that can be found at most health stores.

So will the reversatrol will help to lower hematocrit/hemoglobin as well? Or just the naringin?

 

[Slidingblues]

Just to be clear, 200mg/week of test will put a decent sized person at around 1200-1300 total testosterone, this is about DOUBLE what a normal TRT dose would be.

200 put me at 1200. I'm 6'5" 250 lbs.

After that test my doc is dropping me to 100mg/week.

 

[Jude2]

Yeah, I know. I cant tell you how sick I am of seeing guys post on here that they are doing 200-250mg/wk and that its HRT. There is noway in hell that any honest physician that truly cared for the patient would prescribe that.

That is not true my friend. There are lot of factors that come into play. People react differently to test. I have reviewed alot of lab work from the clients I work with, the older ones. The dosages vary from 50mg to 300mg per week. You would be amazed to see that sometimes the guy using the 200mg total test is lower than the guy using 50mg. The problem u see is that guys say they are on HRT and never been to a doctor, to determine proper dosing.

 

[Kaladryn]

That is not true my friend. There are lot of factors that come into play. People react differently to test. I have reviewed alot of lab work from the clients I work with, the older ones. The dosages vary from 50mg to 300mg per week. You would be amazed to see that sometimes the guy using the 200mg total test is lower than the guy using 50mg. The problem u see is that guys say they are on HRT and never been to a doctor, to determine proper dosing.

Naw this is just patients fucking with you. No one is going to be in normal range on 300mg/week, no one. Not even a 400lbs man with hyperactive aromatase. No two people will have the same total test level at 200mg and 50mg, maybe free because of SHBG issues, but not total, sorry.

 

[Jude2]

Naw this is just patients fucking with you. No one is going to be in normal range on 300mg/week, no one. Not even a 400lbs man with hyperactive aromatase. No two people will have the same total test level at 200mg and 50mg, maybe free because of SHBG issues, but not total, sorry.

No body is fucking with me. These guys get their shots at the Dr's office and I assure you that the total test is correct. Sometimes guys on 300mg will be in normal range, very few but it happens. Everyone responds to meds differently. BB's should know that more than anybody else.

 

[10brandonr]

So will the reversatrol will help to lower hematocrit/hemoglobin as well? Or just the naringin?

probably just the naringin. But the resveratrol will help reduce the risk for AAS related heart attack and stroke just as much so.

Also, I'm going to go out and try this naringin, but in the study grapefruit, NOT isolated naringin was used to lower hematocrit. There are many other flavonoids in grapefruit that could contribute to this effect. Narinigin was only proven to reduce hematocrit in vitro, but has not been studied in living subjects as of yet. So keep that in mind if it doesn't produce a desirable effect. I'll get a blood test in three months or so and see what effect it has.

 

[e6er]

Also any mention of AAS use or that you're on TRT and they will deny you to donate blood.

 

[Kaladryn]

No body is fucking with me. These guys get their shots at the Dr's office and I assure you that the total test is correct. Sometimes guys on 300mg will be in normal range, very few but it happens. Everyone responds to meds differently. BB's should know that more than anybody else.

Sorry bud, I went to school for molecular biology and I know a lot more about biochem than the average doc, this isn't how things work.

 

[ssdark1]

Sorry bud, I went to school for molecular biology and I know a lot more about biochem than the average doc, this isn't how things work.

im sure as hell not going to jump in here and argue with what you are saying, it is contrary to a lot of what ive read, either way id like to know for sure. so hopefully, this dispute in info gets cleared up...

 

[Jude2]

Sorry bud, I went to school for molecular biology and I know a lot more about biochem than the average doc, this isn't how things work.

You probably do know more. My question to you is how can 2 different people have different total test results with the same dosages. Can you explain why one guys needs 200mg and another guy needs 50mg to be in high normal range. You see several guys on this board say that 50mg a week gets me to 800, then someone else takes 150mg a week and gets to 800 total test. Then someone else will have blood work done on 150mg and have a total test of 2000. What you are saying is that there a concrete total test result for different dosages. That is just is not what is happening in the real world. Everyone is different. So explain to me and others how things work.

 

[brutale]

You probably do know more. My question to you is how can 2 different people have different total test results with the same dosages. Can you explain why one guys needs 200mg and another guy needs 50mg to be in high normal range. You see several guys on this board say that 50mg a week gets me to 800, then someone else takes 150mg a week and gets to 800 total test. Then someone else will have blood work done on 150mg and have a total test of 2000. What you are saying is that there a concrete total test result for different dosages. That is just is not what is happening in the real world. Everyone is different. So explain to me and others how things work.

I'm not sure why individual variability is surprising. Many drugs and hormones produce different serum levels in different individuals at the same dosage.

Here, we can point to specific variables. 5a reductase governs conversion to DHT and aromatase to estradiol. So individual differences in the levels and activity of these enzymes matter. Downstream, testosterone is gradually inactivated in the liver (mostly). After conjugation with glucuronic and other acids, most of the metabolites are excreted in urine. Another 5-10% leaves in feces. So, individual differences in metabolism will lead to differences in serum levels.

You can look at studies to see how the same dose of test produces different blood levels. 300mg should produce levels around 1500 on average, but the 90% of people will lie between 1000 and 2000, or something similar. I don't recall the exact #s.

Transdermal test is even more variable since absorption rates differ greatly among individuals. Some people can barely get to normal (500) while others can get to 1250 on a tube a day of testim.

Anyhow, 300mg IM will almost always produce numbers above 1000.