Low-Dose of Synthetine Experiences?

[armada]

How low dose of skin? I believe I read somewhere 2iu. Is this correct?

It doesn't take much. 2 iu of slin should do the trick. I simply take it ~45 min. after a preworkout meal and then go straight to the gym, and drink carbs and protein intra and have been having good results.

 

[joos23]

It doesn't take much. 2 iu of slin should do the trick. I simply take it ~45 min. after a preworkout meal and then go straight to the gym, and drink carbs and protein intra and have been having good results.

I do fasted cardio and then start sipping on my intra while I train. Be a bad idea to use the slin since I won't have food in me?
I've never used it and not sure if I will, but it has me curious with caraitine

 

[armada]

I do fasted cardio and then start sipping on my intra while I train. Be a bad idea to use the slin since I won't have food in me?
I've never used it and not sure if I will, but it has me curious with caraitine

I wouldn't use insulin for the sole purpose of shuttling carnitine into the muscle.

If you're already using insulin or were planning on using it for other reasons, it can't hurt to time it with your carnitine to help get it into the muscle.

But you can absolutely use Synthetine without exogenous insulin. Just shoot it after your preworkout meal (which I recommend, instead of going straight from fasted cardio to training, like you mentioned) and prior to training, when endogenous insulin is already spiked.

This way you cover all your bases - the insulin from the meal is helping the uptake of carnitine into the muscle, and muscular contractions during your workout also aid in the uptake of carnitine into the muscle.

 

[Gunsmith]

I wouldn't use insulin for the sole purpose of shuttling carnitine into the muscle.

If you're already using insulin or were planning on using it for other reasons, it can't hurt to time it with your carnitine to help get it into the muscle.

But you can absolutely use Synthetine without exogenous insulin. Just shoot it after your preworkout meal (which I recommend, instead of going straight from fasted cardio to training, like you mentioned) and prior to training, when endogenous insulin is already spiked.

This way you cover all your bases - the insulin from the meal is helping the uptake of carnitine into the muscle, and muscular contractions during your workout also aid in the uptake of carnitine into the muscle.

How close to training does the meal and carnitine need to be to training.??
I don’t eat within 2 hrs of training

 

[trenboloninha]

i always use my synthetine before my fasted cardio... i think it worked. could even work more...

 

[armada]

How close to training does the meal and carnitine need to be to training.??
I don’t eat within 2 hrs of training

I take my shot of Synthetine ~45 minutes after my meal and then start working out ~15 minutes later.

 

[armada]

i always use my synthetine before my fasted cardio... i think it worked. could even work more...

I know several people who have used that protocol. I think it can be effective.

There is a lot of evidence that carnitine is more effectively uptaken into the muscle in the presence of moderate amounts of insulin.

But that doesn't mean that synthetine isn't effective or still uptaken into the muscle to some extent if taken in a low-insulin environment.

 

[K1]

i always use my synthetine before my fasted cardio... i think it worked. could even work more...

Isn't that John Meadows protocol if I recall correctly...Could be wrong?!

But that doesn't mean that synthetine isn't effective or still uptaken into the muscle to some extent if taken in a low-insulin environment.

Agreed.

 

[trenboloninha]

yes bro, hes my coach ...thats why i use that way!

 

[K1]

yes bro, hes my coach ...thats why i use that way!

Makes perfect sense then lol...Keep us posted on how things go for you using his protocol! Obviously everyone's different so it's good to see how others are running it and the pros/cons of their protocols.

 

[trenboloninha]

will do brother for sure!!!!! if you have any question send me a pm

 

[armada]

Dropped out caffeine, ephedrine, tren, proviron and metformin a few days ago.

Just on test + primo + GH + synthetine at this point. Performance in the gym has still been solid.

Still just using 2ml on workout days (4x/week).

After 10+ workouts and 2+ weeks on this protocol, I can say without a doubt that the biggest benefit has been a boost in endurance in the gym.

I also believe it is helping keep me lean. It will be even easier to see Synthetine's effect on fat loos now that I'm running fewer compounds.

 

[K1]

Dropped out caffeine, ephedrine, tren, proviron and metformin a few days ago.

Just on test + primo + GH + synthetine at this point. Performance in the gym has still been solid.

Still just using 2ml on workout days (4x/week).

After 10+ workouts and 2+ weeks on this protocol, I can say without a doubt that the biggest benefit has been a boost in endurance in the gym.

I also believe it is helping keep me lean. It will be even easier to see Synthetine's effect on fat loos now that I'm running fewer compounds.

How's the progress going?!

 

[totalrecomp]

Ann N Y Acad Sci. 2004 Nov;1033:30-41.
Kinetics, pharmacokinetics, and regulation of L-carnitine and acetyl-L-carnitine metabolism.
Rebouche CJ1.
Author information
Abstract
In mammals, the carnitine pool consists of nonesterified L-carnitine and many acylcarnitine esters. Of these esters, acetyl-L-carnitine is quantitatively and functionally the most significant. Carnitine homeostasis is maintained by absorption from diet, a modest rate of synthesis, and efficient renal reabsorption. Dietary L-carnitine is absorbed by active and passive transfer across enterocyte membranes. Bioavailability of dietary L-carnitine is 54-87% and is dependent on the amount of L-carnitine in the meal. Absorption of L-carnitine dietary supplements (0.5-6 g) is primarily passive; bioavailability is 14-18% of dose.

(Very interesting that oral absorption of the supplement form is so much lower which makes one wonder what in food allows the carnitine to be so well absorbed vs the supplement. I would love to see some research on this. Would taking supplemental carnitine with food high in carnitine increase the absorption? Can we isolate the food compound that is having the increasing action?)

Unabsorbed L-carnitine is mostly degraded by microorganisms in the large intestine. Circulating L-carnitine is distributed to two kinetically defined compartments: one large and slow-turnover (presumably muscle), and another relatively small and rapid-turnover (presumably liver, kidney, and other tissues). At normal dietary L-carnitine intake, whole-body turnover time in humans is 38-119 h. In vitro experiments suggest that acetyl-L-carnitine is partially hydrolyzed in enterocytes during absorption. In vivo, circulating acetyl-L-carnitine concentration was increased 43% after oral acetyl-L-carnitine supplements of 2 g/day, indicating that acetyl-L-carnitine is absorbed at least partially without hydrolysis. After single-dose intravenous administration (0.5 g), acetyl-L-carnitine is rapidly, but not completely hydrolyzed, and acetyl-L-carnitine and L-carnitine concentrations return to baseline within 12 h. At normal circulating l-carnitine concentrations, renal l-carnitine reabsorption is highly efficient (90-99% of filtered load; clearance, 1-3 mL/min), but displays saturation kinetics. Thus, as circulating L-carnitine concentration increases (as after high-dose intravenous or oral administration of L-carnitine), the efficiency of reabsorption decreases and clearance increases, resulting in rapid decline of circulating L-carnitine concentration to baseline. Elimination kinetics for acetyl-L-carnitine are similar to those for L-carnitine. There is evidence for renal tubular secretion of both L-carnitine and acetyl-L-carnitine. Future research should address the correlation of supplement dosage, changes and maintenance of tissue L-carnitine and acetyl-L-carnitine concentrations, and metabolic and functional changes and outcomes.

PMID: 15591001 DOI: 10.1196/annals.1320.003

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15591001

So according to human pharmacokinetics, there is a ceiling somewhere with carnitine and when we reach it the body becomes less efficient at reabsorption and thus elimination increases. I have no idea where the ceiling is, and I suspect it is very high based on trusted folks here reporting positive effects up to 10ml/day aka Elvia, but at some point more is not better but that could be sky high amounts. Also increasing doses may increase excretion but perhaps we are still overcoming it with the exogenous usage.

As to the insulin driving carnitine into cells, I will be using Ecklonia Cava with Synthetine soon. Eclklonia cava is a seaweed that has strong antioxidant effects as well as promoting insulin release. The insulin release has only been studied thus far in human pancreatic cells and diabetic mice but anecdotal reports have many reporting strong BG lower properties and some are only able to take EC in the presence of carbohydrates. One user, in particular, is a diabetic and has been able to eliminate his Lantus and only uses his fast acting prior to meals, previously he was using both. Eliminating 30 units of Lantus a day is HUGE IMO.

From Examine:
In isolated pancreatic cells, 50ug/mL Ecklonia Cava was able to augment glucose-induced insulin secretion by 2.8-fold[28] and increased basal insulin has been found in diabetic mice (75%) with 3% Ecklonia in the feed with no significant influence on normal mice.[28] Increases to insulin secretion have been replicated in mice given 3-5% Ecklonia Cave.[30]

In instances of damage to the pancreatic cells, glucotoxicity (toxicity via excessive glucose) appears to be attenuated under the influence of Ecklonia extract; this particular study used an enzymatic hydrolysis of Ecklonia,[31] but a reduction of beta-cell losses during diabetes (experimental type II) has been noted with oral consumption of standard Ecklonia extract.[30]

https://examine.com/supplements/ecklonia-cava/#ref28

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22645628
"CONCLUSION: These results suggest that EC play a role in controlling dietary glucose absorption at the intestine and insulinotrophic action at the pancreas contributing blood glucose homeostasis in diabetic condition."

Combining Synthetine with some carbs and Ecklonia might be a nice stim free fat loss combo and overall performance enhancer. :headbang:

 

[armada]

How's the progress going?!

Awesome. Definitely helped on my cut. Probably the best performance enhancer I've used aside from AAS or GH (never used slin). 2ml 4x per week (pre-workout) worked great. Endurance, vascularity, and fat loss all increased noticeably.

I continued to use the Synthetine a couple weeks into my bulking phase, but stopped this week, as I need a break from pinning (was pinning several times a day during the cut - between the low mg/ml AAS + the GH + the carnitine).

 

[joos23]

Anyone using this year round or mainly during cutting? I'm starting a recomp and not sure if it would benefit me to keep using it

 

[Bugsbunny20000]

Anyone using this year round or mainly during cutting? I'm starting a recomp and not sure if it would benefit me to keep using it

I would be interested as well getting ready to start GH

 

[Elvia1023]

I have read the 1st study above before but the 2nd one is new to me. Ecklonia Cava is actually completely new to me and it's the first I have heard of it. It's worth nothing it only seemed to work for diabetic mice with no effect in normal ones. Perhaps there are other studies showing more promise. Now if you are diabetic it could be a wonder supplement. The are many ways to augment insulin release but I think low dosed insulin is the best. If fasted certain precautions are needed and I would recommend EAA's and glutamine.

I have ate a diet high in carnitine for years. My meat consumption changes through the year but when it is high literally 90% comes from beef. For example yesterday I had 4 x 200g steaks split through the day. Even in those times as little as 2ml synthetine can make a big difference. As totalrecomp posted I even tried 10ml per day just as an experiment. I already knew 3ml was better than 2ml and 5 ml better than 3ml. The same for 10ml but common sense needs to be used and overall taking cost and convenience into consideration I don't think massive doses are needed. Now if someone was going for it they could try it and see for themselves. The injections were easy for me and I had 5ml syringes and I done all 10ml pre workout so overall it was easy for me. I would get annoyed fast having to do 3.33ml 3 times daily split up though.

As mentioned it's night and day difference using inj carnitine for me. I have even experimented with other tablet/oral forms of carnitine and they don't have the same effect as synthetine. I find the oral forms I have tried (such as ALCAR) tend to give me more mental benefits and less physique ones. For some reason I don't get the same fatloss, vascularity or sweating effect from them. I get much better cognitive benefits from them such as focus in the gym. If I go really high with ALCAR I can even get some mild headaches. Just my findings but others may experience different so it's worth experimenting for yourself.

 

[Elvia1023]

Anyone using this year round or mainly during cutting? I'm starting a recomp and not sure if it would benefit me to keep using it

I would be interested as well getting ready to start GH

When I done my high dosed experiment I was bulking. In that experiment Phidias was cutting and Rambo was more recomp so a good mixture. I used it as an aid to help minimize fat gain whilst growing. I have used it many times for cutting, recomp or bulking. It's a very versatile and effective supplement. It also has many health benefits and causes me no pain so I use it a lot. I cycle everything though so never stay on all year but have used it for approx 6 months straight before at various doses (2-5ml). If I had to recommend a starting dose it would be 1ml first day then 2ml daily and see how you are. I get more from 3ml so perhaps up to that to see the difference. When using it alone I go with 3-5ml now. I sometimes combine it with syntheselen so to fit everything in the same syringe I go with about 1.5-2.5ml of both.

Bugsbunny20000 it's a debated supplement but I think 500mg metformin pre bed is a nice addition to a HGH cycle for various health and physique benefits.

 

[armada]

Anyone using this year round or mainly during cutting? I'm starting a recomp and not sure if it would benefit me to keep using it

Take my advice and use it! It will help!