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Low E2 Low Prolactin Still Gyno WTF

Hi Stewie.

I also have high progesterone.

Is it safety to use RU-486 for this then?

Did you use it some time?

Which dosages?

Enviado desde mi SM-G530FZ mediante Tapatalk

No I haven't taken RU-486. Nor would i advise taking it. My comment was lined in a joking manner.

What's your progesterone levels?

Hi Stewie did you get my pm? Sent maybe 3 weeks ago?? :(

I may have deleted it, along with several others by accident :(

My inbox was full and clicked on some mistakingly. My apologies.

If you would like, you could resend it. Sorry.
 
No prob. Will do it now! Thank you.
 
I have been supplementing with test and tren.

Been taking .5 caberet 2x week, adex .5 EOD

Just got bloods e2= 5.4 prolactin =1.0

Still getting gyno symptoms.... What gives???

Tren ACTIVATES the prolactin receptor, you can't stop it, you can't reason with it, you can't "lower your prolactin." All you can do is keep moving, hide, and try to crush its head.

Same with progesterone.

If I remember right, tren has 2x the affinity for the progesterone receptor than progesterone itself. Think, liquid metal, you can't even crush it's head now.
 
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Tren ACTIVATES the prolactin receptor, you can't stop it, you can't reason with it, you can't "lower your prolactin." All you can do is keep moving, hide, and try to crush its head.

Same with progesterone.

If I remember right, tren has 2x the affinity for the progesterone receptor than progesterone itself. Think, liquid metal, you can't even crush it's head now.

Bill Roberts and Patrick Arnold say quite the opposite. Tren has no direct effects on prolactin.

Their explanation is quite solid.

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/trenbolone-progestagenic-prolactin/

I get a minute, I'll look for the one Pat commented on the same topic on PHF.
 
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Bill Roberts and Patrick Arnold say quite the opposite. Tren has no direct effects on prolactin.

Their explanation is quite solid.

https://thinksteroids.com/articles/trenbolone-progestagenic-prolactin/

I get a minute, I'll look for the one Pat commented on the same topic on PHF.

**broken link removed**

Thanks for posting. I 100% agree tren doesn't increase prolactin. I think we had this discussion before, I had to look it up lol

Tren doesn't increase prolactin, but it does activate the progesterone receptor according to these studies below, AND metabolites of tren have a 5x affinity for it.

Characterisation of the affinity of different anabolics and synthetic hormones to the human androgen receptor, human sex hormone binding globulin and to the bovine progestin receptor - BAUER - 2000 - APMIS - Wiley Online Library
For 17β-trenbolone (17β-TbOH), the active compound after TBA administration, an affinity the rhAR similar to dihydrotestosterone (DHT) and a slightly higher affinity to the bPR than progesterone were demonstrated. The affinity of the two major metabolites, 17α-trenbolone and trendione, was reduced to less than 5% of the 17β-TbOH-value. The affinity of these three compounds and of MGA to the hSHBG was much lower compared with DHT. MGA showed a 5.3-fold higher affinity than progesterone to the bPR but only a weak affinity to the rhAR. The major MGA metabolites have an affinity to the bPR between 85% and 28% of the affinity of progesterone.

Old thread: http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...h-prolactin-tren-e-cause-water-retention.html

One topic we discussed is how tren has an affinity for the ER, and may act as a co-binding factor at the prolactin receptor (E2 is a co-binding factor for the PRLR).
 
FYI - no combination of AI\Nolva worked for me, I tried letro didnt work, tried arimidex and nolva, didnt work.

I came completely off still running nolvadex and the lump is going away now.

Not sure how to prevent this in the future.
 
You know Milfepristone may actually be better than some of those dopamine agonists. 10mg/d is the dose given for contraception, yet they study it in all sorts of dosages way up to 200mg/d...that's a lot. Milfepristone will function as an progesterone receptor antagonist but wont reduce your overall progesterone levels (as Nolva does with estro).

You'll definitely get problems if you don't do all this right from the get go. You can't just start messing with progesterone levels after your prolactin levels are through the roof.

It's just the basics of pregnancy. Progesterone contributes to an increase in Prolactin levels, but Progesterone ALSO prevents the Prolactin from performing all of it's functions. So during pregnancy, progesterone goes up, then prolactin goes up. After birth, the progesterone goes down while the prolactin remains for awhile, now that the progesterone is gone, BOOM, the lactation begins.

So if you already have high prolactin levels, you'll need to keep the progesterone levels high enough to prevent lactation, so you'd need something else to directly block the prolactin, or you'd have to find some other careful method.

And ya, it's the metabolite of Tren that's the culprit. We could really bypass all of this if somebody just make some 4-chloro-trenbolone.
 
You know Milfepristone may actually be better than some of those dopamine agonists. 10mg/d is the dose given for contraception, yet they study it in all sorts of dosages way up to 200mg/d...that's a lot. Milfepristone will function as an progesterone receptor antagonist but wont reduce your overall progesterone levels (as Nolva does with estro).

You'll definitely get problems if you don't do all this right from the get go. You can't just start messing with progesterone levels after your prolactin levels are through the roof.

It's just the basics of pregnancy. Progesterone contributes to an increase in Prolactin levels, but Progesterone ALSO prevents the Prolactin from performing all of it's functions. So during pregnancy, progesterone goes up, then prolactin goes up. After birth, the progesterone goes down while the prolactin remains for awhile, now that the progesterone is gone, BOOM, the lactation begins.

So if you already have high prolactin levels, you'll need to keep the progesterone levels high enough to prevent lactation, so you'd need something else to directly block the prolactin, or you'd have to find some other careful method.

And ya, it's the metabolite of Tren that's the culprit. We could really bypass all of this if somebody just make some 4-chloro-trenbolone.
Then

Do you think that it is possible to decrease progesterone after cycle with mifrestone?

Which dosage would you use?

Thanks

Enviado desde mi SM-G530FZ mediante Tapatalk
 
Then

Do you think that it is possible to decrease progesterone after cycle with mifrestone?

Which dosage would you use?

Thanks

Enviado desde mi SM-G530FZ mediante Tapatalk

progesterone isn't high, the problem is tren is activating the progesterone receptor, you would need something that blocks the progesterone receptor.

I thought Nolva and 19nor's were no bueno?

Nolva fits in the ER, and progestin receptors have estrogen as a co-binding factor (meaning they have to fit in the same receptor at the same time). Nolva, even though it normally fits in the ER but doesn't activate it, CAN still provide the co-binding factor needed to activate the PRLR and maybe the PRL as well I don't know for sure.

That is the theory on nolva, but it still always works for some people even on 19nors that have progestin activity...
 
Then

Do you think that it is possible to decrease progesterone after cycle with mifrestone?

Which dosage would you use?

Thanks

Enviado desde mi SM-G530FZ mediante Tapatalk

There's a lot to determine, seeing as that there is little information about progesterone and prolactin outside of pregnancy. We know little about the daily functions of these hormones under normal conditions or bodybuilding conditions.

but Mifepristone dosages? Like I said 10mg/d is a sensible starting point. I can't tell you exactly, and there aren't many test-points in order to determine an appropriate dose, unless you think that Prolactin involvement is the only sign, then you'd just test for appropriate prolactin levels.

And, to be clear, this is not some blanket recommendation for mifepristone.
 
Thanks for posting. I 100% agree tren doesn't increase prolactin. I think we had this discussion before, I had to look it up lol

Tren doesn't increase prolactin, but it does activate the progesterone receptor according to these studies below, AND metabolites of tren have a 5x affinity for it.

Characterisation of the affinity of different anabolics and synthetic hormones to the human androgen receptor, human sex hormone binding globulin and to the bovine progestin receptor - BAUER - 2000 - APMIS - Wiley Online Library


Old thread: http://www.professionalmuscle.com/f...h-prolactin-tren-e-cause-water-retention.html

One topic we discussed is how tren has an affinity for the ER, and may act as a co-binding factor at the prolactin receptor (E2 is a co-binding factor for the PRLR).

I'm not seeing where Tren's metabolites have a 5 time higher binding affinity to the progesterone receptor?

I do see melengestrol acetate (MGA) having a 5 times higher binding affinity to the bovine uterine progestin receptor (bPR).

Unlike Tren, MGA is an estrogen based progestin.

Can some one please tell me where the progestin receptor is located? Considering a progestin is a man made synthetic hormone.

So we as humans have evolved to create a synthetic cytoplasmic receptor?

...Interesting.
 
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progesterone isn't high, the problem is tren is activating the progesterone receptor, you would need something that blocks the progesterone receptor.



Nolva fits in the ER, and progestin receptors have estrogen as a co-binding factor (meaning they have to fit in the same receptor at the same time). Nolva, even though it normally fits in the ER but doesn't activate it, CAN still provide the co-binding factor needed to activate the PRLR and maybe the PRL as well I don't know for sure.

That is the theory on nolva, but it still always works for some people even on 19nors that have progestin activity...

Tamoxifen has been shown to downregulate the PgR in healthy breast tissue.
 
I'm not seeing where Tren's metabolites have a 5 time higher binding affinity to the progesterone receptor?

I do see melengestrol acetate (MGA) having a 5 times higher binding affinity to the bovine uterine progestin receptor (bPR).

Unlike Tren, MGA is an estrogen based progestin.

Can some one please tell me where the progestin receptor is located? Considering a progestin is a man made synthetic hormone.

So we as humans have evolved to create a synthetic cytoplasmic receptor?

...Interesting.

Let me rephrase that.

Unlike Tren, MGA possess estrogenic activities.

Tit for tat... Is the progestin receptor in the PAQR family or a nuclear orphan receptor?
 
I'm not seeing where Tren's metabolites have a 5 time higher binding affinity to the progesterone receptor?

I do see melengestrol acetate (MGA) having a 5 times higher binding affinity to the bovine uterine progestin receptor (bPR).

Unlike Tren, MGA is an estrogen based progestin.

Can some one please tell me where the progestin receptor is located? Considering a progestin is a man made synthetic hormone.

So we as humans have evolved to create a synthetic cytoplasmic receptor?

...Interesting.

My bad, I thought that metabolite was from tren, but that same study DOES show that tren itself has a higher affinity for the progesterone receptor than progesterone itself, that is pretty significant.

I'm curious about your questions regarding the term "progestin." I can only guess your misunderstanding about the term comes from the very poorly worded wiki on it.

"Progestin" is the common classroom term used when referring to progesterone and it's receptor. It is sometimes specifically used when referring to the progesterone membrane receptor.

Progestin means progesterone or any analog of progesterone.

Since an analog ("synthetic version") of progesterone is a progestin designed to target the progesterone receptor, as a doctor, you should definitely know a progestin targets the progesterone receptor?
 
My bad, I thought that metabolite was from tren, but that same study DOES show that tren itself has a higher affinity for the progesterone receptor than progesterone itself, that is pretty significant.

I'm curious about your questions regarding the term "progestin." I can only guess your misunderstanding about the term comes from the very poorly worded wiki on it.

"Progestin" is the common classroom term used when referring to progesterone and it's receptor. It is sometimes specifically used when referring to the progesterone membrane receptor.

Progestin means progesterone or any analog of progesterone.

Since an analog ("synthetic version") of progesterone is a progestin designed to target the progesterone receptor, as a doctor, you should definitely know a progestin targets the progesterone receptor?

I was throwing the craziness of location out there of the nature (actually, doesn't exist in nature) of a synthetic hormone docking to a synthetic cytoplasmic receptor.

I brought this up awhile back in another thread and Dr. Scott Stevenson seen the message I was conveying.

The receptor location is located on the cell membrane, rather than inside the cytoplasm or nucleus. Otherwise known as progestin and adipoQ receptor family member 8 or PAQR8.

I wish I was a doctor :eek:

I'm still an undergrad working towards being a P.A.

Nonetheless, good conversation, Kal :)
 
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I would just like to note that "affinity" does not imply the specific action of binding. There are antagonists that have a high affinity.

And for Tren, it has about one metabolite because all those conjugated bonds limit it's metabolism. The one metabolite of Tren is the greater agonist of the progesterone receptor, regardless of affinity.
 
if you want to lower progesterone naturely without medicine you need to eat less soy-rich food and keep the stress of excerise, the fat can also cause estrogen so wight loss is also a good way
 
if you want to lower progesterone naturely without medicine you need to eat less soy-rich food and keep the stress of excerise, the fat can also cause estrogen so wight loss is also a good way

But soy-boobs are the best boobs...like sweezin' tofu
 

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