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Low fat , High Carb Diet

They are followed wrong. For instance, the Zone cuts your carbs in half. The Atkins removes carbs. Low fat keeps fat away from carbs but still mixes proteins. To succeed the first step is to lower carbs, then separate them from fats and finally separate them from proteins. Carbs are not evil, but need separated from all other foods. If you do not do this, no diet works.
 
What's always worked for me is a basic diet, not low on anything.

6 days a week I cycle meals throughout the day: Protein and Carbs, then Protein and Fat. Just never Carbs and Fat.

1 day a week I eat high simple carbs and protein. Very low fat. This is a refeed day to boost my metabolism.

One note is that I don't count vegetables like brocolli as carbs. So I do eat brocolli with fat. Root vegetables should be considered simple unless they have a high fiber content.

I've gotten very lean this way and never have to deal with cravings.
 
how do you figure this is healthiest?...there is a reason whey there is ESSENTIAL fatty acids and not essential carbs...

Okay, I'd love to hear an "explanation" for that statement!




Look, the simple truth is, some people do well on moderate-high carbs / low-fat, and some on low carbs / moderate fat.

Conditioning for my first show (over 10 yrs ago) was based on a very low carb/moderate fat /high protein diet. I lost more LBM than BF!. Sure, the BF was coming off, but at the expense of hard-earned muscle!

The next show I entered (1 yr later) I worked with an amateur BB who insisted on HIGH carb, low-mod fat, moderate protein regimen. I was VERY reluctant to venture into this type of plan because it was the absolute opposite of the mainstream BB norm. However, this guy was always in exceptional shape!

I decided to give it a try and after 2 weeks, I was absolutely AMAZED! I was eating MASSIVE amounts of carbs and the fat was literally melting off. When I started, I was only training 4 days/week and performing cardio (20min/sessions), 3 days a week! When I plateaued, I increased cardio systematically. This diet took me to 7/8 % BF. To shed off the last few %, I cycled the same high carb diet w/subsequent days of low carbs, higher fat and higher protein BUT kept the calorie count the same throughout. (More proof that calorie deficit DOES NOT = fat loss, but that's another topic entirely)


If you haven't received adequate results from low carb dieting, give the high carb diet a try. It may just be the ticket!



S
 
Im waiting to hear what some of the experianced competitors and trainers for hire here have to say on this!

Personaly i think that everybody is differant and most folks are going to respond differantly to each diet.
I know personaly eating more than 150-200 g complex carbs (im 270lbs) kills my stomach ,im bloated and gassy all the time appatite is reduced and it seems harder for me to drop fat without doing way more cardio.

I seem to do well with some complex carbs and fruit early in the day to get me in the 150-200g range (which more than half is from fruit) and the rest of the day is meats higher in fats like beef and salmon
 
High carb diets are by far superior over low carb diets, your body needs carbs to burn fat, simple as that. I had bloodwork done on stints of both a non and high carb diet at almost equal kcal levels and TSH was much lower on the no carb diet (duh).

This coming from a fool who was once an Anabolic Diet advocate (me)

couldnt agree more
 
**broken link removed**
 
Cool thread. I have a lot to say on this subject as I have accumulated a little over 11 years of blood work during my experiments with dieting styles. In short, and strictly based on my own blood work, I really have nothing but years of contradictory results. So to be honest, this is a bit more complex than it seems.

My conclusion: There are way more factors involved than just low carb vs high carb. Done intelligently, and only speaking for myself, medium carb diets work well and so do low carb diets. I've never had good blood work results using high carb.

But were I on an agenda to argue for one side or the other, I can make good arguments backed up with blood work for either side. Reason: I've had good results and bad results with either dieting style.
 
Last edited:
do you guys think that the feeling of misery on low carb diets means that the user doesn't respond as well to this type of fat loss diet? Personally I feel so hungry and $hitty on low carb diets
 
Carbs are needed to produce serotonin, that's why (some, probably those who are already low on the serotonin scale) people get depressed on low carb diets.

First Google that came up:

During the current low-carb/pro-protein diet craze, carbohydrates have been demonized -- accused of causing weight gain and blamed as the reason people can't lose weight. Do they deserve this stigma? Not according to MIT researcher Judith Wurtman.

Wurtman, director of the Program in Women's Health at the MIT Clinical Research Center, and colleagues have found that when you stop eating carbohydrates, your brain stops regulating serotonin, a chemical that elevates mood and suppresses appetite. And only carbohydrate consumption naturally stimulates production of serotonin.

"When serotonin is made and becomes active in your brain, its effect on your appetite is to make you feel full before your stomach is stuffed and stretched," said Wurtman. "Serotonin is crucial not only to control your appetite and stop you from overeating; it's essential to keep your moods regulated."

Antidepressant medications are designed to make serotonin more active in the brain and extend that activity for longer periods of time to assist in regulating moods. Carbohydrates raise serotonin levels naturally and act like a natural tranquilizer.

Wurtman's husband, Richard Wurtman, the Cecil H. Green Distinguished Professor at MIT and the director of the Clinical Research Center, along with former graduate student John Fernstrom, discovered that the brain makes serotonin only after a person consumes sweet or starchy carbohydrates. But the kicker is that these carbohydrates must be eaten in combination with very little or no protein, the Wurtmans' combined research determined.

So a meal like pasta or a snack of graham crackers will allow the brain to make serotonin, but eating chicken and potatoes or snacking on beef jerky will actually prevent serotonin from being made. This can explain why people may still feel hungry even after they have eaten a 20-ounce steak. Their stomachs are full but their brains may not be making enough serotonin to shut off their appetites.

And what do protein dieters (especially women) miss most after the second week? Carbohydrates. Women have much less serotonin in their brains than men, so a serotonin-depleting diet will make women feel irritable.

"There are people we call carbohydrate cravers who need to eat a certain amount of carbohydrates to keep their moods steady," said, Wurtman, co-founder of Adara, a weight-management company whose programs are based on her research. "Carbohydrate cravers experience a change in their mood, usually in the late afternoon or mid-evening. And with this mood change comes a yearning to eat something sweet or starchy."

Thus, it's not just a matter of will power or mind over matter; the brain is in control and sends out signals to eat carbohydrates. According to Wurtman's clinical studies, if the carbohydrate craver eats protein instead, he or she will become grumpy, irritable or restless. Furthermore, filling up on fatty foods like bacon or cheese makes you tired, lethargic and apathetic. Eating a lot of fat, she said, will make you an emotional zombie.

"When you take away the carbohydrates, it's like taking away water from someone hiking in the desert," Wurtman said. "If fat is the only alternative for a no- or low-carb dieter to consume to satiate the cravings, it's like giving a beer to the parched hiker to relieve the thirst -- temporary relief, but ultimately not effective."
 
Carbs are needed to produce serotonin, that's why (some, probably those who are already low on the serotonin scale) people get depressed on low carb diets.

First Google that came up:

During the current low-carb/pro-protein diet craze, carbohydrates have been demonized -- accused of causing weight gain and blamed as the reason people can't lose weight. Do they deserve this stigma? Not according to MIT researcher Judith Wurtman.

Wurtman, director of the Program in Women's Health at the MIT Clinical Research Center, and colleagues have found that when you stop eating carbohydrates, your brain stops regulating serotonin, a chemical that elevates mood and suppresses appetite. And only carbohydrate consumption naturally stimulates production of serotonin.

"When serotonin is made and becomes active in your brain, its effect on your appetite is to make you feel full before your stomach is stuffed and stretched," said Wurtman. "Serotonin is crucial not only to control your appetite and stop you from overeating; it's essential to keep your moods regulated."

Antidepressant medications are designed to make serotonin more active in the brain and extend that activity for longer periods of time to assist in regulating moods. Carbohydrates raise serotonin levels naturally and act like a natural tranquilizer.

Wurtman's husband, Richard Wurtman, the Cecil H. Green Distinguished Professor at MIT and the director of the Clinical Research Center, along with former graduate student John Fernstrom, discovered that the brain makes serotonin only after a person consumes sweet or starchy carbohydrates. But the kicker is that these carbohydrates must be eaten in combination with very little or no protein, the Wurtmans' combined research determined.

So a meal like pasta or a snack of graham crackers will allow the brain to make serotonin, but eating chicken and potatoes or snacking on beef jerky will actually prevent serotonin from being made. This can explain why people may still feel hungry even after they have eaten a 20-ounce steak. Their stomachs are full but their brains may not be making enough serotonin to shut off their appetites.

And what do protein dieters (especially women) miss most after the second week? Carbohydrates. Women have much less serotonin in their brains than men, so a serotonin-depleting diet will make women feel irritable.

"There are people we call carbohydrate cravers who need to eat a certain amount of carbohydrates to keep their moods steady," said, Wurtman, co-founder of Adara, a weight-management company whose programs are based on her research. "Carbohydrate cravers experience a change in their mood, usually in the late afternoon or mid-evening. And with this mood change comes a yearning to eat something sweet or starchy."

Thus, it's not just a matter of will power or mind over matter; the brain is in control and sends out signals to eat carbohydrates. According to Wurtman's clinical studies, if the carbohydrate craver eats protein instead, he or she will become grumpy, irritable or restless. Furthermore, filling up on fatty foods like bacon or cheese makes you tired, lethargic and apathetic. Eating a lot of fat, she said, will make you an emotional zombie.

"When you take away the carbohydrates, it's like taking away water from someone hiking in the desert," Wurtman said. "If fat is the only alternative for a no- or low-carb dieter to consume to satiate the cravings, it's like giving a beer to the parched hiker to relieve the thirst -- temporary relief, but ultimately not effective."

this article 100% accurately describes the way I feel on low carbs. I think I will raise my carbs next time I go on a cutting diet as long as my total cals are the same.

You guys think raising carbs while dieting but keeping cals the same will cause unwanted fat gain?
 
How low in fat are we talking here? Remember that we there are essential fatty acids that are needed by the body and that certain vitamins (A, D, E and K) are fat soluble.

I'll just say Endocrine System and leave it at that....
 
I am usually under 50 grams of fat, 750 grams of carbs 400 grams of protein per day. I stay around 12% currently 240 pounds.
 
do you guys think that the feeling of misery on low carb diets means that the user doesn't respond as well to this type of fat loss diet? Personally I feel so hungry and $hitty on low carb diets


Low carb diets have a direct change on the brains chemistry and elimates an energy source essentially from what I have read for the brain.

On low carb I feel like I operate at 25% mentally
 
AWESOME thread!!

I actually created a thread last week called "CUTTING on HIGH CARBS", because after many years of successful high-carb dieting, I was willing to try the low-carb approach, mostly as a result of peer-pressure...

This thread confirmed everything that I already know, but for some reason, started to DOUBT. For me, the optimal way to lose fat is a High protein, mod-high carb, lower fat diet. My primary carb sources are yams, brown rice, and whole grains. Dextrose PWO.
 
i bboy said this is a thread i recently read but i also don't fear low carb diets at all. I'm more of an endo/meso so i NEED to take carbs low to get lean BUT....

i also dont really flatten out much on low carbs OR suffer through depressed and bad workouts. I can go keto and still be fine energy wise and lifting wise. Thats just me though
 
this article 100% accurately describes the way I feel on low carbs. I think I will raise my carbs next time I go on a cutting diet as long as my total cals are the same.

You guys think raising carbs while dieting but keeping cals the same will cause unwanted fat gain?

I'd say try it. You're unlikely to feel shittier than you do now :D
 
Try different diets then you'll know whats best for your body. You can have people giving you there opionion all day but in the end its your body. Everyone is different
 
Im waiting to hear what some of the experianced competitors and trainers for hire here have to say on this!

Personaly i think that everybody is differant and most folks are going to respond differantly to each diet.
I know personaly eating more than 150-200 g complex carbs (im 270lbs) kills my stomach ,im bloated and gassy all the time appatite is reduced and it seems harder for me to drop fat without doing way more cardio.

I seem to do well with some complex carbs and fruit early in the day to get me in the 150-200g range (which more than half is from fruit) and the rest of the day is meats higher in fats like beef and salmon

I'm the exact same way. I don't need much carbs at all to function normally. I eat possibly 50-150 grams a day of carbs, sometimes none, and I feel great. If I have a high carb meal, I bloat fast and retain gallons of water.

I stay leanest on low carbs. I'm 245 ish right now and my body fat is single digit or barley double digit.

Those that say that low/ trace fats are the best do not know how the body works or have done any research regarding diet.
 
You do realize that this "diet" only works when consuming low protien as well?

Carbs are needed to produce serotonin, that's why (some, probably those who are already low on the serotonin scale) people get depressed on low carb diets.

First Google that came up:

During the current low-carb/pro-protein diet craze, carbohydrates have been demonized -- accused of causing weight gain and blamed as the reason people can't lose weight. Do they deserve this stigma? Not according to MIT researcher Judith Wurtman.

Wurtman, director of the Program in Women's Health at the MIT Clinical Research Center, and colleagues have found that when you stop eating carbohydrates, your brain stops regulating serotonin, a chemical that elevates mood and suppresses appetite. And only carbohydrate consumption naturally stimulates production of serotonin.

"When serotonin is made and becomes active in your brain, its effect on your appetite is to make you feel full before your stomach is stuffed and stretched," said Wurtman. "Serotonin is crucial not only to control your appetite and stop you from overeating; it's essential to keep your moods regulated."

Antidepressant medications are designed to make serotonin more active in the brain and extend that activity for longer periods of time to assist in regulating moods. Carbohydrates raise serotonin levels naturally and act like a natural tranquilizer.

Wurtman's husband, Richard Wurtman, the Cecil H. Green Distinguished Professor at MIT and the director of the Clinical Research Center, along with former graduate student John Fernstrom, discovered that the brain makes serotonin only after a person consumes sweet or starchy carbohydrates. But the kicker is that these carbohydrates must be eaten in combination with very little or no protein, the Wurtmans' combined research determined.

So a meal like pasta or a snack of graham crackers will allow the brain to make serotonin, but eating chicken and potatoes or snacking on beef jerky will actually prevent serotonin from being made. This can explain why people may still feel hungry even after they have eaten a 20-ounce steak. Their stomachs are full but their brains may not be making enough serotonin to shut off their appetites.

And what do protein dieters (especially women) miss most after the second week? Carbohydrates. Women have much less serotonin in their brains than men, so a serotonin-depleting diet will make women feel irritable.

"There are people we call carbohydrate cravers who need to eat a certain amount of carbohydrates to keep their moods steady," said, Wurtman, co-founder of Adara, a weight-management company whose programs are based on her research. "Carbohydrate cravers experience a change in their mood, usually in the late afternoon or mid-evening. And with this mood change comes a yearning to eat something sweet or starchy."

Thus, it's not just a matter of will power or mind over matter; the brain is in control and sends out signals to eat carbohydrates. According to Wurtman's clinical studies, if the carbohydrate craver eats protein instead, he or she will become grumpy, irritable or restless. Furthermore, filling up on fatty foods like bacon or cheese makes you tired, lethargic and apathetic. Eating a lot of fat, she said, will make you an emotional zombie.

"When you take away the carbohydrates, it's like taking away water from someone hiking in the desert," Wurtman said. "If fat is the only alternative for a no- or low-carb dieter to consume to satiate the cravings, it's like giving a beer to the parched hiker to relieve the thirst -- temporary relief, but ultimately not effective."
 
We all know the that if you want to loose fat we have to stop eating fat . After all, fat has twice as many calories as carbs or protien, the doctors have linked fat to heart disease, obesity, and high cholesterol, so it makes since to not eat them. Right?

Then why is America fatter than ever? *Since 1970, Americans have been eating less and less fat. That's right. We eat less fat today than we did 40 years ago. However, the overall calories have INCREASED. But how could this be? We did what wad recommended and now we are fatter than ever!

Well it all starts with a study done in the 1950's called the Lipid Hypothesis. In this study, the aim was to prove a correlation between the amount of fat in a countries diet and the heart disease rates. And the end result showed a very obvious correlation. The more fat a country ate, the more at risk they were for heart disease. But one problem: the doctor doing the study picked and chose what contries results were posted. Infact, several countries ate higher amounts of fat than the top countries included in the study that had the LOWEST incidence of heart disease. For example, the Inuit's diet is comprised of 60-80 % of heavily saturated animal fat, yet heart disease is is unheard of.

It is said that we are fat because we eat more than ever. This is true, but why do we eat more than ever? I mean, I don't think people counted calories, practiced portion control, or worried about the fat in their food. People ate when they were hungry, ate until they were full, and went on with their life.

It is true that we are less active than before. But that means that we should be less hungry, right? The humans body works by increasing hunger as activity increases. But we are less active than ever, yet we eat more than ever. How is this?

When we replaced fats with carbohydrates (those cookies are
Fat free after all) it does something in our bodies. It jacks ups our insulin.*

Insulin is transport mechanism. It caries glucose from the blood stream to *recptor sites inside muscle and liver tissue as glycogen (this is were the body gets energy during intense exercise). After all the receptors are full, the excess is stored as fat. Since most of use don't exercise long enough to deplete glycogen, most is stored as fat.

Insulin is also highly anabolic. Infact, it is argued to be one of the most anabolic hormones in the body. However, it is competly anabolic. It builds muscle and fat at rapid rate, and can totally blunt the oxidation of fat for energy for several hours.

When we eat carbohydrates, the body breaks down the carb into glucose and resleases this glucose into the blood stream. You may know this as "blood sugar." well blood sugars like the remain at a constant 90 value (ng/dl). No more no less. When we eat carbs, especially highly refined, our blood sugar gets elevated. The body releases it's transport mechanism, insulin, to lower this blood sugar.*

But, when high glycemic carbs especially are eaten, the blood sugars get jacked up so fast the body just starts dumping huge amounts of insulin to get the blood sugar down. But in the
midst of this insulin chaos, the body releases TOO much insulin. So after *blood sugar gets down to it's preferred 90 ng/dl blood sugar levels, there is still a ton of insulin transporting the
*Blood sugar to receptors.

Did you know that it is this drop in blood sugar is what sends people in diabetic shock? It's hypoglycemia, and it can kill. Your body does have a system in place to raise blood sugar with out carbs, involving a hormone called glucagon. But the body is in cris mode, we need this blood sugar raised NOW.*

So the body sends out hunger hormones, sending you jonesing for something to eat, especially something sweet. Starting the cycle all over again.*

So before you decide to cut fat out of your diet consider this:

- carbohydrates are unessential to our survival as humans. We have essential amino acids, essential fatty acids, but not essential carbohydrates

- over half of the cell membranes are made of saturated fats

- cholesterol is vital for hormone production

-when the body is deprived of fat, it will horde the fat so it can synthesize hormones

- studies show that men who eat a higher percentage of fat in their diet have higher testosterone levels

I'm not sayin that carbs are the devil, they are very useful and recommended, but don't discount the value as fat.
 

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