Low IGF

[slesh]

90% it's fake, if you're lucky it's underdosed Exemestane, maybe another AI altogether.

How long have you been on the dbol? Please provide a time line of when you took what, and when you drew bloods. Also, please post your entire blood work.

This is 4 weeks into the blast mentioned above with the Test, Deca and Dbol. And 8-10 weeks into the GH at 3-5iu a day. Like I mentioned above at 125mgs a week on Test my E2 is usually around 40. So on a gram of Test at 92 to me that Asin is working fine.

 

[slesh]

Back to what I mentioned earlier. Look at the attached results. GH serum at 38 and IGF at 627. So this theory that my GH is bunk is ridiculous. My current GH barely tested below this.

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

This is 4 weeks into the blast mentioned above with the Test, Deca and Dbol. And 8-10 weeks into the GH at 3-5iu a day. Like I mentioned above at 125mgs a week on Test my E2 is usually around 40. So on a gram of Test at 92 to me that Asin is working fine.
View attachment 111015

Hmm, your liver looks fine. So that's not it either. Kind of surprised your AST and ALT aren't even slightly elevated. Don't know what dose dbol you're taking, but either it's fake/underdosed or you have an amazing liver. Or you're taking some liver sup like TUDCA? Also, I assume you didn't train in the days prior to the blood draw?

On another note, the low ALP value is something you should follow up on with a doc. Most likely you are deficient in some micronutrients like zinc. Do you have celiac disease or other digestive issues?

 

[thewizkid]

Hey dudes,

Been on quality GH the last few months at 3-5iu a day. GH serum came back at 31 for the 2.5 hour 10iu IM blood test. But for some reason my IGF is only at 250. Normal IGF baseline for me when I'm not on GH is around 180-200. So not much of an increase. A few years ago I was around 600 while on GH at same dose. Could anything I'm doing be suppressing my IGF levels and should I be concerned I'm not getting full benefits of GH?

Currently on:

1 gram Test Cyp a week
500 mgs Deca a week
50 mgs Dbol a day
10iu Slin a day
25 mgs Asin a day
.25 mgs Caber twice a week

Taking too much anti estrogen causes gh to not increase igf-1
100% is the reason

how are you injecting your gh? And doses
And are you taking any other meds

 

[slesh]

Hmm, your liver looks fine. So that's not it either. Kind of surprised your AST and ALT aren't even slightly elevated. Don't know what dose dbol you're taking, but either it's fake/underdosed or you have an amazing liver. Or you're taking some liver sup like TUDCA? Also, I assume you didn't train in the days prior to the blood draw?

On another note, the low ALP value is something you should follow up on with a doc. Most likely you are deficient in some micronutrients like zinc. Do you have celiac disease or other digestive issues?

This is May to November on Geneza and Dragon gear. For underground labs I know everything isn't dosed perfectly but I think we can put to bed this bunk gear theory. I rarely drink anymore and I take NAC. I seem to have a fairly resilient liver as Winny doesn't raise my enzymes either.

And on the other note that's also strange because I take a zinc supplement...

 

[slesh]

Taking too much anti estrogen causes gh to not increase igf-1
100% is the reason

how are you injecting your gh? And doses
And are you taking any other meds

This is interesting. Can you share any articles?

 

[thewizkid]

This is interesting. Can you share any articles?

After doing some brief research oddly studies say the opposite

that estrogen actually inhibits gh conversion to igf-1
However I saw the opposite when I was using hgh

just wondering what dose of hgh and how were you injecting it?

 

[slesh]

After doing some brief research oddly studies say the opposite

that estrogen actually inhibits gh conversion to igf-1
However I saw the opposite when I was using hgh

just wondering what dose of hgh and how were you injecting it?

I am currently pinning 3-5iu a day in the morning sub-q 7 days a week. I am going to stay off the Slin for a while and retest my IGF in 3-4 weeks.

 

[thewizkid]

I am currently pinning 3-5iu a day in the morning sub-q 7 days a week. I am going to stay off the Slin for a while and retest my IGF in 3-4 weeks.

I had my highest igf levels when I inject gh 2x a day subq roughly 12h apart
Was in the 600’s
But I kept estrogen levels in the low normal range too

 

[tren_plz]

Sorta off topic. What are you guys paying for Seros?

 

[qbkilla]

I had the same thing happen years ago

took gh, saw no results. serum tested fine igf was barley eleveated

could be a few things

1. gh is bunk or peptides, or wrong sequence. basically china putting something in there to mimic gh serum because they know we test it, but they want to save $ so it is something (wrong sequence, peptides) more cost effective to them the the GH we take that benefits us

2. Liver. Did you get AST and ALT elevated?

I do not think a gh serum test proves that it is real gh, or at least the sequence that is beneficial to bodybuilders.

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

For fucks sake, read the thread before replying. The OP posted his blood work and it shows that neither estrogen nor liver damage are the issue. And stop regurgitating this bullshit about ther ebeing peptides instead of GH in generics. There has never been a single case where it was shown via HPLC analysis that a vial of generic GH contained peptides. Plus, the timing doesn't work. GH secreting peptides would not lead to GH levels of 30 ng/ml at 3-4 hours post injection. So moronic.

 

[qbkilla]

I will read the thread again, but something is going on.

Suggesting that generic GH is not legit is never moronic, its actually moronic to trust any generic Chinese GH with actual proof that its legit (meaning someone ordered it, the supplier did not know this person was going to test it, and then it was tested to be legit). And with that I mean the actual GH powder was tested, not GH serum OR IGF results.

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

I will read the thread again, but something is going on.

Suggesting that generic GH is not legit is never moronic, its actually moronic to trust any generic Chinese GH with actual proof that its legit (meaning someone ordered it, the supplier did not know this person was going to test it, and then it was tested to be legit). And with that I mean the actual GH powder was tested, not GH serum OR IGF results.

To suggest that generic GH contains peptides is absolutely moronic. As I tried to explain to you, peptides would not lead to positive results on the type of GH serum tests bodybuilders do. Hence, there is no reason for manufacturers to put in peptides. Even a simple blood test for 30 bucks would expose this scam. Accordingly, we have never seen an HPLC result of a GH vial that actually contains peptides instead. We have, however, seen that the vast majority of generic GH on the market is properly dosed and of high purity. Yes, some are underdosed, some don't contain no active substance, some are of low purity. But the point is that IF a GH serum test 3-4 hours post injections shows 20+ ng/ml of GH, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY 100% GH IN THE VIALS. SUCH RESULTS CANNOT BE ACHIEVED WITH THE INJECTION OF GH-RELEASING PEPTIDES.

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

After doing some brief research oddly studies say the opposite

that estrogen actually inhibits gh conversion to igf-1
However I saw the opposite when I was using hgh

just wondering what dose of hgh and how were you injecting it?

Only true for oral administration of estrogen. Endogenous estrogen increases IGF-1 levels, up to a point. When the T/E ratio gets too low due to increased estrogen, there may be a negative effect. But this will never be an issue is AAS users.

Estrogen Regulation of Growth Hormone Action

GH plays a pivotal role in regulating body growth and development, which is modulated by sex steroids. A close interplay between estrogen and GH leads to attain

academic.oup.com

 

[slesh]

Only true for oral administration of estrogen. Endogenous estrogen increases IGF-1 levels, up to a point. When the T/E ratio gets too low due to increased estrogen, there may be a negative effect. But this will never be an issue is AAS users.

Estrogen Regulation of Growth Hormone Action

GH plays a pivotal role in regulating body growth and development, which is modulated by sex steroids. A close interplay between estrogen and GH leads to attain

academic.oup.com

Still a cool article

 

[slesh]

To suggest that generic GH contains peptides is absolutely moronic. As I tried to explain to you, peptides would not lead to positive results on the type of GH serum tests bodybuilders do. Hence, there is no reason for manufacturers to put in peptides. Even a simple blood test for 30 bucks would expose this scam. Accordingly, we have never seen an HPLC result of a GH vial that actually contains peptides instead. We have, however, seen that the vast majority of generic GH on the market is properly dosed and of high purity. Yes, some are underdosed, some don't contain no active substance, some are of low purity. But the point is that IF a GH serum test 3-4 hours post injections shows 20+ ng/ml of GH, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY 100% GH IN THE VIALS. SUCH RESULTS CANNOT BE ACHIEVED WITH THE INJECTION OF GH-RELEASING PEPTIDES.

100% agree and was my earlier point. To just say it’s “bunk” is stupid and lazy. Is it exactly 10iu or 100% pure? Somewhat doubtful. But it’s GH and instead of everyone just parroting years of nonsense I think it would be interesting to find and discuss research on the real cause of the low IGF.

 

[qbkilla]

To suggest that generic GH contains peptides is absolutely moronic. As I tried to explain to you, peptides would not lead to positive results on the type of GH serum tests bodybuilders do. Hence, there is no reason for manufacturers to put in peptides. Even a simple blood test for 30 bucks would expose this scam. Accordingly, we have never seen an HPLC result of a GH vial that actually contains peptides instead. We have, however, seen that the vast majority of generic GH on the market is properly dosed and of high purity. Yes, some are underdosed, some don't contain no active substance, some are of low purity. But the point is that IF a GH serum test 3-4 hours post injections shows 20+ ng/ml of GH, THERE IS ABSOLUTELY 100% GH IN THE VIALS. SUCH RESULTS CANNOT BE ACHIEVED WITH THE INJECTION OF GH-RELEASING PEPTIDES.

So you would also agree then, that peptides do not do what they are supposed to (mimic gh) or elevate gh levels like gh? Or if they do, it is a very small amount? I have never been a believer of peptides. One thing I disagree on, is that the majority of gh being sold out there is legit, or properly handled and stored. I am just skeptical, just like I am that "primo" being sold is primo and not just EQ and something else.

 

[01dragonslayer]

I was running Tren a few months ago. I will continue the same GH protocol and retest IGF in a month or two.

I had the same issues my man. I had a serum test done when trying a new line of GH. Test came back at 33.4. Then about a month or so later I then had the IGF test done. I was cycling tren at the time and others referenced the tren and 17aas as they put some stress on the liver causing problems with converting the GH. I then stopped the tren and Tbol and later had the IGF test done again. Can't quite remember what the number was but the isue was resolved.

 

[slesh]

I had the same issues my man. I had a serum test done when trying a new line of GH. Test came back at 33.4. Then about a month or so later I then had the IGF test done. I was cycling tren at the time and others referenced the tren and 17aas as they put some stress on the liver causing problems with converting the GH. I then stopped the tren and Tbol and later had the IGF test done again. Can't quite remember what the number was but the isue was resolved.

That's great to hear. And makes total sense. I guess then the question is if I'm not elevating my IGF, am I getting the benefits of GH? I feel like by the eye test I am. I have a nice fullness and my waistline is still a 31 which is not too shabby for being on Deca, Dbol and in a calorie surplus.