Low or high volume... finally an answer that makes sense!

[Phidias]

There is nothing that defnes low or high volume.....its all relative.....find what type of twitcher you are then take advantage of it.......its just listening to your body while training and figuring out where to go...do not lock yourself into a world of high OR low volume.

Was just reading babybeast's thread in the photo section, when I came accross Phil's post.

Wisdom at its finest.

 

[cachexic]

Nice. I am a full believer in training instinctively.

 

[Ness]

Great topic, JC.

Phil has me doing both, at the same time. Best of both worlds in a single exercise and or workout.

 

[knucklehed]

It is tough to arque with Phil's logic or his results

 

[thebrick]

Love that Phidias! and Phil!!! People are always looking for some elusive, complex, convoluted solution. Simple solutions are always best in my book :lightbulb:

 

[vanya]

^^ I agree. After hiring phil, I've realized all these years I've been wasting so much time in the gym, especially doing stuff that isn't going to help me at all. It's SO much more simple now, yet way more effective and it still fries me. Once I understood his training, I was like wow it makes perfect sense.

 

[concreteguy]

So true

Love that Phidias! and Phil!!! People are always looking for some elusive, complex, convoluted solution. Simple solutions are always best in my book :lightbulb:

I think it's not how many. I think it's the last three.

1. Your brain telling you there isn't much left in the bucket.
2. You ask your brain am I really done or can I do one more?
3 You do one last rep and trully fail the muscle.

This sends a message " I'm asking more of you than you can provide", a message of change.

 

[deanabol]

are there people out there that benefit from only training once or twice per week ?
so maybe a full body workout once per week ,and using the extra off time to conserve energy for the body to repair ?

im suffering from adrenal fatigue and am wondering if i can take this approach rather than stop training altogether

 

[PHIL HERNON]

Yes

Yes, JC, et al., those are words of Phil’s are words of wisdom.

But unfortunately, it takes time to figure that out (what he said),
one needs to pay attention, observe, keep accurate records,
question, and have patience. Problem is most people what immediate
results, which weight training is more than capable of giving you, but
you have got to use the tools correctly. It’s really not that complicated.

Many people train way too much, eat way too much, and change
routines way too frequently, rarely giving things time to play out in
a meaningful fashion.

And . . . start the “super supplements” way way too early; too much
too soon, do not take advantage of all they have to offer because
of being in such a hurry. Then it too late and can never go back and
regain that lost ground, those opportunities, that are now lost forever.

You will know if you have what it takes in bodybuilding within a few
short years (usually less) using the worst training routine known
to man, watching your diet or your diet watching you, with or without
drugs, it does not matter. Your potential will be immediately obvious
to a keen, honest, and experienced eye in a very short amount of time.

Problem is, and this has been an age old problem . . . there is much to
be gained financially by some by stringing people along with less
desirable genetics. I’m going to leave it at that.

Off my soapbox and back to work.

I have literally had people want to quit after 1 week..........or change routines after a month.......or tell me its not working......that they are not big yet........I attribute this to the nonsensical advertising out there lately with various products.......

 

[Philthy]

I think it's not how many. I think it's the last three.

1. Your brain telling you there isn't much left in the bucket.
2. You ask your brain am I really done or can I do one more?
3 You do one last rep and trully fail the muscle.

This sends a message " I'm asking more of you than you can provide", a message of change.

Sounds like what the politicians are doing to our economy. lol

 

[benner]

This is a little off topic, but is there a clear cut way to find out what 'twitch' type you are? Ive been doing this for quite a while, maybe Im not looking in the right place. Does anyone have any input? Sorry if I jacked the thread

 

[SmallTownIron]

I started seeing the best result when I actually starting listening to my body

 

[Ness]

This is a little off topic, but is there a clear cut way to find out what 'twitch' type you are? Ive been doing this for quite a while, maybe Im not looking in the right place. Does anyone have any input? Sorry if I jacked the thread

Read Alfresco's post, friend.

 

[benner]

Read Alfresco's post, friend.

Its a great post. My ? was technical I guess. Im 38 and have only cycled barely 3 times, so Im not jumping the gun or impatient. I dont believe I have great genetics, probably average. Just looking for that extra umph!

 

[Buildinthaskinnys]

This is a little off topic, but is there a clear cut way to find out what 'twitch' type you are? Ive been doing this for quite a while, maybe Im not looking in the right place. Does anyone have any input? Sorry if I jacked the thread

Muscle Fibre Test

 

[LATS]

guys.. the key is too avoid overtraining.. the issue with that is EVERYONE OVER TRAINS!!! now that being said, why are you so special..? what i mean is i hear guys say that they require high volume.. i am not telling them they are wrong as it does work for some people.. but the issue again is are you overtrained.. and please dont say that you FEEL FINE.. that is not the best indictor of being overtrained..

i injure myself all the time.. dealing with a arm injury now because of doing a upright row with too many sets.. i did three sets.. all were perfect.. did two more "just because it felt good/right".. now i am forced to lay off training for a about a week because of a forearm flexor that is so painful i can barely grab anything.. felt great.. two hours later quite a bit of pain.. 4 days later and still no go.. had my doc look at it and give me anti inflams.. so what should i have done..? well get out while it was good.. leave some in the tank..

i agree with phil that people are different.. but anytime i have tried a higher volume a wake up the next morning exhausted and not wanting to train.. any time i went in hit it hard and left quick (my wife always says "wow that was quick.. taking it easy tonight" ) i know i had a good one.. get out and grow..

two weeks ago my training partner (i have a new one.. wants to train with me at the house and is new too it) and i went in to do chest shoulders tri.. we did 3 sets of decline hammer press, 1 set of reverse grip smith machine press (for "upper" chest.. i know i know.. but i like the pec pump), 2 sets of wide grip uprights, 2 sets of partial side laterals , 3 sets of incline extensions.. done heavy but quick.. when we were done he said "thats it?" "shouldnt we do more" ect.. i said no and trust me.. well he left here and went to a key club he belongs too and did numerous other sets.. he told me this the next day.. then said "in order for me too grow man, i have to do alot of sets.." i said "really? you are 5'9 160 pounds.. how much growing have ya done"? he said "i started a year ago at 152 pounds.. been pounding the weight gainers and creatine for about 6 months".. yea.. he is right...it is working for him..:banghead:

there have been tow studies posted on md over the last couple of months by two different university and institutes .. both arrived at the best number of sets for hypertrophy.. BOTH ARRIVED AT 4-6 SETS PER BODYPART.. after this they found a great diminishing returns component..

 

[btech]

BOTH ARRIVED AT 4-6 SETS PER BODYPART.. after this they found a great diminishing returns component..

What does 4-6 sets mean? Is it

135x10
225x5
275x5
315x5
365x10

Or, does it entail doing your warmup sets, followed by 4 sets of 315 at 15 reps, 10 reps, 7 reps, 4 reps?

So many variables/factors are involved in deciding what's best for the individual, though. Training to failure, rest days per week, nutrition, supplements, what else are you training that day, which muscle group you are training, how heavy is the weight, individual goals, etc etc etc.

 

[LATS]

4-6 sets.. too failure.. performed with 5-7 days off between workouts.. in any study you can not cover all the variable.. but one should not ignore these studies.. although gym science wins out many times, we dont do blood work and other parameters that they do.. so take it for what it is worth..

 

[thebrick]

guys.. the key is too avoid overtraining.. the issue with that is EVERYONE OVER TRAINS!!!

So true and I have been very guilty of that myself. But as I have aged a bit, I have to be even more aware of overtraining because my body's recovery is just less forgiving.

I remember hearing an analogy years ago that I like. Providing growth stimulus to muscle is like exploding a stick of dynamite. Once that dynamite has exploded, YOU ARE DONE WITH THAT WORKOUT. The stimulus has been provided, anything more is useless and is only overtraining. You can't "explode" the dynamite twice.

 

[mexbeast]

excellent thread, great info!