'low' test + high(er) EQ.

[cmryan]

@Type-IIx

Misconception that boldenone is nonaromatizable, or that its use (in sufficiently high doses) permit abstaining from AI/SERM use in users that are not resilient against aromatizing effects (e.g., fluid retention/edema, growth of breast tissue, etc.)

Reality: Boldenone aromatizes (to estrone [E1] & estradiol [E2]) at 58% the rate of testosterone. This is significant. However, since Estrone (E1) is a weakestrogen, because lacks the 17β-OH group, it possesses only 2% of E2's potency to transactivate ERα (associated with aromatizing effects, many of which are negative side effects in men).

Practically, this means that moderate/moderately-high boldenone doses (used solo; or in combination with nonaromatizable drugs, and/or with low doses of exogenous testosterone) would tend to not require AI/SERM use in users that are not resilient against aromatizing effects, but: A) for those who principally aromatize to E2 rather than E1 (inter-individual differences are likely rooted in 17β-HSD1 isozyme expression, under the control of the A1-Q327 gene) particular; and/or B) where E1 blood concentrations start getting into the regions of > 50-fold above that at which E2 causes problems in the individual, then the aromatizing effects would be expected to predominate.

@Type-IIx is usually great about citing his posts, but his info is almost always on point. And he's open about when he's speculating. Still would like to know what he's citing there.

 

[Xplicit]

This is false. EQ converts to E1. EQ having AI metabolites is not proven , but having abnormally high Estrone levels on EQ has been proven. It simply lowers your estrogen (E2) reading because it’s competes for Aromatase.

I am aware it converts to Estrone (E1), I have had high readings of E1 with low E2 before while on EQ.

I dont think its the E1 that is competing for Aromtase, its very weak. Though the competition theory works just as well in my mind to explain EQ and low E2, either or take your pick. Going to drop the reddit link, people can check it out or not, there is a youtube video too if anyone prefers it.

"In a nutshell, he concludes that one of Boldenone's (structure) major metabolites competitively inhibit Aromatase. First, Boldenone converts to Androstadienedione (aka Boldione; structure) via enzyme 3ß-HSD, and then is converted to Estrone (E1, structure) via Aromatase.

The phenomenon we observe likely comes from Boldione having a greater binding affinity to aromatase, and therefore occupying the most spots in our E2 production, producing primarily E1 (which is not preferred), therefore slowly diminishing the supply of E2. This also explains why the low E2 effects don't occur immediately, it requires your baseline E2 to naturally diminish and for Boldenone to slowly convert to Boldione until you reach a point where Boldione is able to dominate competition at aromatase with both Boldenone and Testosterone."

The further I went down this rabbit hole, the more I shifted to confirmation bias over actual understanding. Seems it lowers E2 a considerable amount for a lot of people, for now I will let that be enough and enjoy some Testosterone.

Google search EQ (Equipoise), Estrogen, and AI effects, first reddit page that pops up.

 

[gains4000]

I am aware it converts to Estrone (E1), I have had high readings of E1 with low E2 before while on EQ.

I dont think its the E1 that is competing for Aromtase, its very weak. Though the competition theory works just as well in my mind to explain EQ and low E2, either or take your pick. Going to drop the reddit link, people can check it out or not, there is a youtube video too if anyone prefers it.

"In a nutshell, he concludes that one of Boldenone's (structure) major metabolites competitively inhibit Aromatase. First, Boldenone converts to Androstadienedione (aka Boldione; structure) via enzyme 3ß-HSD, and then is converted to Estrone (E1, structure) via Aromatase.

The phenomenon we observe likely comes from Boldione having a greater binding affinity to aromatase, and therefore occupying the most spots in our E2 production, producing primarily E1 (which is not preferred), therefore slowly diminishing the supply of E2. This also explains why the low E2 effects don't occur immediately, it requires your baseline E2 to naturally diminish and for Boldenone to slowly convert to Boldione until you reach a point where Boldione is able to dominate competition at aromatase with both Boldenone and Testosterone."

The further I went down this rabbit hole, the more I shifted to confirmation bias over actual understanding. Seems it lowers E2 a considerable amount for a lot of people, for now I will let that be enough and enjoy some Testosterone.

Google search EQ (Equipoise), Estrogen, and AI effects, first reddit page that pops up.

E1 is a precursor to E2. Estrone can be readily converted into Estrogen. Yes, EQ reduces the Estrogenic load of Testosterone by being a substrate for aromatase. You can still run boldenone only cycles and have sufficient estrogen levels. @jaxino ran 2000mg of EQ and had 44pg E2 reading.

 

[Xplicit]

E1 is a precursor to E2. Estrone can be readily converted into Estrogen. Yes, EQ reduces the Estrogenic load of Testosterone by being a substrate for aromatase. You can still run boldenone only cycles and have sufficient estrogen levels. @jaxino ran 2000mg of EQ and had 44pg E2 reading.

Ahh I did not know that, thank you. I suppose like all things individual response is going to be a major factor here. I did a EQ solo cycle several years ago and popped a 7 on E2. Added TrT to it, few weeks later a 9 lol. Threw in the towel from anxiety around that time anyway.

 

[jaxino]

Ahh I did not know that, thank you. I suppose like all things individual response is going to be a major factor here. I did a EQ solo cycle several years ago and popped a 7 on E2. Added TrT to it, few weeks later a 9 lol. Threw in the towel from anxiety around that time anyway.

I bet that you used too low EQ....

 

[Xplicit]

I bet that you used too low EQ....

Over a gram for that one.

But even still, posted this on the first page "1200mg EQ and 750mg Sust with no AI at all put me at 11 e2". The EQ might bring sufficient e2 for you (perhaps through the E1 converting to E2) but for myself even the addition of testosterone at 750mg and I am still spitting out E2 of 11 with no AI. I did mention though, I think the E2 reading is of far less concern when running a good dose of aromatizing compounds next to it. I have no low E2 side effects right now, I certainly did in the past with my EQ only and EQ/TrT runs with E2 readings around similar levels.

Main one I am noticing the absence of is anxiety. Normally I would get kicked in the face by now with anxiety specific to EQ use that I now believe is just low estrogen anxiety. Especially after having experienced low estrogen anxiety when not running EQ a few times now.

 

[jaxino]

Over a gram for that one.

But even still, posted this on the first page "1200mg EQ and 750mg Sust with no AI at all put me at 11 e2". The EQ might bring sufficient e2 for you (perhaps through the E1 converting to E2) but for myself even the addition of testosterone at 750mg and I am still spitting out E2 of 11 with no AI. I did mention though, I think the E2 reading is of far less concern when running a good dose of aromatizing compounds next to it. I have no low E2 side effects right now, I certainly did in the past with my EQ only and EQ/TrT runs with E2 readings around similar levels.

Main one I am noticing the absence of is anxiety. Normally I would get kicked in the face by now with anxiety specific to EQ use that I now believe is just low estrogen anxiety. Especially after having experienced low estrogen anxiety when not running EQ a few times now.

When you use EQ higher than Test usually the test can't convert so E2 Will Always stay the same... The only thing you could do was to bump the dose of EQ to the 2g range.

Thing is that i am not sure that using high dose EQ will lead any better results than using high test and less anabolics.....

Max growth in my opinion comes always from 1g+ test + some anabolics on top + HGH and a decent insulin protocol.

 

[Fa Seeshus]

People all respond different, but for me the qualities I was looking for in EQ were better fulfilled by DHB. You also need a heck of allot less.

Some people will get bad PIP and it can effect liver values, so YMMV.

 

[jaxino]

People all respond different, but for me the qualities I was looking for in EQ were better fulfilled by DHB. You also need a heck of allot less.

Some people will get bad PIP and it can effect liver values, so YMMV.

I made DHB in ricin/castor oil at 100mg/ml and it doesn't seem to cause any pip.
Unfortunately the oil lasts forever and if you want to inject a good amount of DHB it will really an hassle.

On MCT oil, for me it was impossible to make it hold with just BA and BB.

 

[MightyJohn]

I used to LOVE Eq....but it raises RBC too high & gives Me anxiety

 

[Swifto]

What is your test dose?

I just started 525mg test/350mg bold. Will keep updating how I feel on this.

250mg per week of Test E.

I've dropped the EQ now and have moved to cutting where its just 250mg TE per week and 2iu HGH.

I felt the anxiety on 300mg per week of EQ. Literally did 1-2 weeks.