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Luki Offseason - blow up arms at 3" with SYNTHEROL(road do 320lbs)

The main issue is that you make nonsense comparisons.

How can you even think about Proviron or Masteron as "builders" when everyone knows that they build nothing at all..... It's almost written in stone.

I can understand if you compare Deca to Anadrol or Primo to Eq.... But Mast to Deca or SD to Prov is such a nonsense.....
Pertaining Masteron, you are mistaken. Masteron in high dosage is very effective. All DHTs and derivatives are very effective in building muscle. The issue is since they don't cause water retention, people think they are not making gains. DHTs are extremely potent drugs, they are 5 times more active that testosterone.

Quoted from article:

In a recent study, we showed that dihydrotestosterone (DHT), but not testosterone, increases force production in fast contracting muscles and decreases it in slow contracting ones. These findings led us to suggest that DHT may be a better muscle-building hormone than testosterone. In the present study, we have examined the effects of these hormones on amino acid transport in mouse fast and slow contracting skeletal muscle fiber bundles. Our results show that DHT increases protein synthesis and the transport of essential amino acids into fast contracting muscle fiber bundles, whereas testosterone does not. These findings confirm our previous proposition and reinforce our suggestion that DHT may be a better hormone for the treatment of muscle wasting conditions than testosterone.
 
What is considered high dosage of mast? Over a gram?
personally for me 700mg per week is max otherwise I get flat like a pancake, especially if I don't have a really high dose of testosterone. Although I even tried 300mg of masteron a day, which is over 2g a week before the competition
 
Luki what do you think about that all aas more or less causes the same rate of lean muscle growth mg to mg(no water or carbohydrate). Does that mean that 500mg mast e could produce the same lean mass as deca?

Not picking on you as I see this all the time and if you aren't experienced, might as well ask, but whoever started this idea, unless people are vastly misquoting him or leaving out 5-10 underlying assumptions/caveats, is a fool. If you look at studies and science this is categorically wrong. If you have even a few cycles under your belt and didn't blow them up in grand idiot style then this should be self evident as well.

I know the question was already answered by Luki and done well with the 700mg of Tren vs equipoise but how statements like this come out and gain popularity to where I see it quoted everywhere blows my mind.
 
Pertaining Masteron, you are mistaken. Masteron in high dosage is very effective. All DHTs and derivatives are very effective in building muscle. The issue is since they don't cause water retention, people think they are not making gains. DHTs are extremely potent drugs, they are 5 times more active that testosterone.

Quoted from article:

In a recent study, we showed that dihydrotestosterone (DHT), but not testosterone, increases force production in fast contracting muscles and decreases it in slow contracting ones. These findings led us to suggest that DHT may be a better muscle-building hormone than testosterone. In the present study, we have examined the effects of these hormones on amino acid transport in mouse fast and slow contracting skeletal muscle fiber bundles. Our results show that DHT increases protein synthesis and the transport of essential amino acids into fast contracting muscle fiber bundles, whereas testosterone does not. These findings confirm our previous proposition and reinforce our suggestion that DHT may be a better hormone for the treatment of muscle wasting conditions than testosterone.

This is dht specific, not all compounds derived from dht. Look at dbol and equipoise. Both test derived and INCREDIBLY similar in structure with only the 17aa methyl on dbol being the difference. Yet, vastly different in effect and sides. Almost as different as it gets. Mast for most resembles proviron. Sure it can help your normal test dose potentiate into higher free T (so helps test and cycle indirectly) and maybe feeling good with some androgenic activity helps you perform in the gym but as a pure direct agent of anabolism...in my and most seasoned users experience it's proven negligible at best. Don't get me wrong, I like and use mast but it's role is aesthetics and feel as opposed to any type of muscle builder on its own. My 2 cents anyway.
 
This is dht specific, not all compounds derived from dht. Look at dbol and equipoise. Both test derived and INCREDIBLY similar in structure with only the 17aa methyl on dbol being the difference. Yet, vastly different in effect and sides. Almost as different as it gets. Mast for most resembles proviron. Sure it can help your normal test dose potentiate into higher free T (so helps test and cycle indirectly) and maybe feeling good with some androgenic activity helps you perform in the gym but as a pure direct agent of anabolism...in my and most seasoned users experience it's proven negligible at best. Don't get me wrong, I like and use mast but it's role is aesthetics and feel as opposed to any type of muscle builder on its own. My 2 cents anyway.
Well said



Quoted from an article
”my piece of paper says xyz works for this and that”
 
Pertaining Masteron, you are mistaken. Masteron in high dosage is very effective. All DHTs and derivatives are very effective in building muscle. The issue is since they don't cause water retention, people think they are not making gains. DHTs are extremely potent drugs, they are 5 times more active that testosterone.

Quoted from article:

In a recent study, we showed that dihydrotestosterone (DHT), but not testosterone, increases force production in fast contracting muscles and decreases it in slow contracting ones. These findings led us to suggest that DHT may be a better muscle-building hormone than testosterone. In the present study, we have examined the effects of these hormones on amino acid transport in mouse fast and slow contracting skeletal muscle fiber bundles. Our results show that DHT increases protein synthesis and the transport of essential amino acids into fast contracting muscle fiber bundles, whereas testosterone does not. These findings confirm our previous proposition and reinforce our suggestion that DHT may be a better hormone for the treatment of muscle wasting conditions than testosterone.
Then all pro bb are silly, they should just spam Masteron and get huge instead of sticking with the tried and true test nand EQ..... Mhhh

Science and bodybuilding don't collide even one second.
 
This is dht specific, not all compounds derived from dht. Look at dbol and equipoise. Both test derived and INCREDIBLY similar in structure with only the 17aa methyl on dbol being the difference. Yet, vastly different in effect and sides. Almost as different as it gets. Mast for most resembles proviron. Sure it can help your normal test dose potentiate into higher free T (so helps test and cycle indirectly) and maybe feeling good with some androgenic activity helps you perform in the gym but as a pure direct agent of anabolism...in my and most seasoned users experience it's proven negligible at best. Don't get me wrong, I like and use mast but it's role is aesthetics and feel as opposed to any type of muscle builder on its own. My 2 cents anyway.
Winstrol and Masteron are very underrated hormones. I'm speaking from my own experience and few others that I know.

I've mentioned before that Winstrol is one of the best Anabolics yet. Unfortunately it messes up the joints.

Take 50 to 100mgs injectable Winstrol everyday and compare it to 100mgs of test every day for 6 to 8 weeks and come back and share your experiences.

Now if you're bloated fat fuck don't bother, However if you're somewhat lean try it and see for yourself.

Reply when you do it and experience the difference. Not because you read somewhere.
 
Winstrol and Masteron are very underrated hormones. I'm speaking from my own experience and few others that I know.

I've mentioned before that Winstrol is one of the best Anabolics yet. Unfortunately it messes up the joints.

Take 50 to 100mgs injectable Winstrol everyday and compare it to 100mgs of test every day for 6 to 8 weeks and come back and share your experiences.

Now if you're bloated fat fuck don't bother, However if you're somewhat lean try it and see for yourself.

Reply when you do it and experience the difference. Not because you read somewhere.
Ok mate i am with you about that Winny is a strong anabolic, DHT derivative agreed, but it's another world compared to Masteron or Proviron.
50mg? Mate at 20mg ed it already builds a ton of muscle, and it's not even neeeded to be injected.

When i stack W with Nandrolone or Anadrol i loose the sides on joints..... Drol+W is my favorite oral anabolic stack.
 
Winstrol and Masteron are very underrated hormones. I'm speaking from my own experience and few others that I know.

I've mentioned before that Winstrol is one of the best Anabolics yet. Unfortunately it messes up the joints.

Take 50 to 100mgs injectable Winstrol everyday and compare it to 100mgs of test every day for 6 to 8 weeks and come back and share your experiences.

Now if you're bloated fat fuck don't bother, However if you're somewhat lean try it and see for yourself.

Reply when you do it and experience the difference. Not because you read somewhere.
I'd like to see a strong bodybuilder use just 700 mg of Winny EW, nothing else. In my imagination he won't lift shit as his joints will be cracking.
 
This is dht specific, not all compounds derived from dht. Look at dbol and equipoise. Both test derived and INCREDIBLY similar in structure with only the 17aa methyl on dbol being the difference. Yet, vastly different in effect and sides. Almost as different as it gets. Mast for most resembles proviron. Sure it can help your normal test dose potentiate into higher free T (so helps test and cycle indirectly) and maybe feeling good with some androgenic activity helps you perform in the gym but as a pure direct agent of anabolism...in my and most seasoned users experience it's proven negligible at best. Don't get me wrong, I like and use mast but it's role is aesthetics and feel as opposed to any type of muscle builder on its own. My 2 cents anyway.
The biologist AND biochemist that struggles to read thinks dihydrotestosterone and 5α-androst-3-ones are one in the same, doesn't appreciate that DHT is completely nonanabolic in humans because of 3α-HSD in human skeletal muscle but not mouse.
 
Winstrol and Masteron are very underrated hormones. I'm speaking from my own experience and few others that I know.

I've mentioned before that Winstrol is one of the best Anabolics yet. Unfortunately it messes up the joints.

Take 50 to 100mgs injectable Winstrol everyday and compare it to 100mgs of test every day for 6 to 8 weeks and come back and share your experiences.

Now if you're bloated fat fuck don't bother, However if you're somewhat lean try it and see for yourself.

Reply when you do it and experience the difference. Not because you read somewhere.
I'm a huge winstrol fan. Used it since the 1990s and I'm grateful I can still tolerate it and doesn't bother my joints today. Makes me feel good, get stronger, aesthetics (not usually my goal) are unmatchable and winny/tren combo is about the best.

MG for MG winstrol crushes mast. No comparison. I can take 175mg of winstrol and it's better than 600mg of mast. Honestly 600mg of mast does virtually nothing to me.

So while we are in agreement on winstrol, a dht derived compound, that doesn't mean all dht derived compounds are the same or even close (throwing in anadrol which is very different in effect). Your study was DHT specific and can't be applied to promote the efficacy of all dht derived compounds - hence my test derived compound of equipoise and dbol example.

When I first started running stuff again mast was new to me and hearing everyone talk I was thinking maybe I had a long acting non liver toxic winstrol here or something close...suffice to say I was disappointed but do use it with tren or deca sometimes as I think it improves those cycles even if just feel. As an anabolic the difference between 0mg, 200mg, 400mg, 600mg, etc of mast... I can't even notice a difference.

We are all different so maybe it works great for you and some others. If so, that's cool. Above is the majority opinion of experienced users from what I've seen.
 
I'm a huge winstrol fan. Used it since the 1990s and I'm grateful I can still tolerate it and doesn't bother my joints today. Makes me feel good, get stronger, aesthetics (not usually my goal) are unmatchable and winny/tren combo is about the best.

MG for MG winstrol crushes mast. No comparison. I can take 175mg of winstrol and it's better than 600mg of mast. Honestly 600mg of mast does virtually nothing to me.

So while we are in agreement on winstrol, a dht derived compound, that doesn't mean all dht derived compounds are the same or even close (throwing in anadrol which is very different in effect). Your study was DHT specific and can't be applied to promote the efficacy of all dht derived compounds - hence my test derived compound of equipoise and dbol example.

When I first started running stuff again mast was new to me and hearing everyone talk I was thinking maybe I had a long acting non liver toxic winstrol here or something close...suffice to say I was disappointed but do use it with tren or deca sometimes as I think it improves those cycles even if just feel. As an anabolic the difference between 0mg, 200mg, 400mg, 600mg, etc of mast... I can't even notice a difference.

We are all different so maybe it works great for you and some others. If so, that's cool. Above is the majority opinion of experienced users from what I've seen.
You're absolutely correct. Not all DHT derivatives are the same. Just like the rest of all other derived compounds.

Winstrol is way more effective than Masteron, however, Masteron is very effective as well in higher dosage.

If Masteron is not effective whether by itself or in conjunction with other Anabolics then why bother using at all? Perhaps we all react differently, but in my opinion Masteron especially the propionate ester is very effective on different levels.
 
Then all pro bb are silly, they should just spam Masteron and get huge instead of sticking with the tried and true test nand EQ..... Mhhh

Science and bodybuilding don't collide even one second.
What a shame that most are missing the point.
Of course no fool is going to use Masteron on its own that's just silly talk. People seem to want to find a reason to argue by choosing a narrow minded path in understanding what being said.

No pro bodybuilder is going to use 1 drug at a time.
 
What a shame that most are missing the point.
Of course no fool is going to use Masteron on its own that's just silly talk. People seem to want to find a reason to argue by choosing a narrow minded path in understanding what being said.

No pro bodybuilder is going to use 1 drug at a time.
Man i don't know if you are joking or not but it's normal to have a Test base when on Masteron.

But you can't say that just by using Test and Masteron you can grow more than on Test and EQ, i still have to see anyone that put on any mass on test + Masteron, where Masteron is the highest dose AAS.

I knew a bodybuilder in Miami that was using 2g Test and 350 Winstrol 8iu Serostim and Humalog in offseason and was huge.

Still have to see anyone on Masteron that did the same with success..... Then why every pro bb still keeps using test deca? I doubt that they are all stupid.... And use such a clean AAS like Masteron...
 
I think the partial problem is the raging popularity (its always been popular but now its insanely) of Primo.
The resurgence of Primo has made people reallllly deep dive into DHT and has also led people to believe that the other DHTs "are probably" just as good as Primo. They aren't.

Winstrol has its place. So does Mast. But they cannot be used in the same way Primo is. We have anecdotal evidence for 20+ years on both of those drugs and have them be the MAIN DRIVER of growth just doesnt work the way we think it will.
 
Man i don't know if you are joking or not but it's normal to have a Test base when on Masteron.

But you can't say that just by using Test and Masteron you can grow more than on Test and EQ, i still have to see anyone that put on any mass on test + Masteron, where Masteron is the highest dose AAS.

I knew a bodybuilder in Miami that was using 2g Test and 350 Winstrol 8iu Serostim and Humalog in offseason and was huge.

Still have to see anyone on Masteron that did the same with success..... Then why every pro bb still keeps using test deca? I doubt that they are all stupid.... And use such a clean AAS like Masteron...
The thing is that theoretically it might be true that mast will give you as many gains as test when compared 1:1. There is just no way that anyone in his right mind will do a mast only cycle. Or a 200 test + 1500 mast cycle. So to even post about it as Mr Black keeps on doing is bullshit. I immediately believe that his statements are true, they are just useless as no one will ever use 200 test and 1500 mast but the other way around would be fine.
 
The thing is that theoretically it might be true that mast will give you as many gains as test when compared 1:1. There is just no way that anyone in his right mind will do a mast only cycle. Or a 200 test + 1500 mast cycle. So to even post about it as Mr Black keeps on doing is bullshit. I immediately believe that his statements are true, they are just useless as no one will ever use 200 test and 1500 mast but the other way around would be fine.
I personally know people who use such a high masteron of 1000-1500mg with 250mg test and ... they are small
 
The thing is that theoretically it might be true that mast will give you as many gains as test when compared 1:1. There is just no way that anyone in his right mind will do a mast only cycle. Or a 200 test + 1500 mast cycle. So to even post about it as Mr Black keeps on doing is bullshit. I immediately believe that his statements are true, they are just useless as no one will ever use 200 test and 1500 mast but the other way around would be fine.

Good example but go a step further and let's really drive it home and be done with it on Luki's thread.

200 test + 1500 mast (let's assume zero estrogen issues and just pure lbm gain)
Vs
1700 test

I'm not a huge test only fan but the 2nd option will monkey hammer the first on lbm. No comparison. Maybe some people are anomalies but MG or MG mast is worst for LBM I've come across. Use some of that 1700mg test budget in the 2nd option for primo, deca, dbol, bar, winny, or anything else other than proviron (which we all agree is shit for LBM though useful for other purposes maybe) and it will outperform masteron for lbm. Similarly in the first replace mast with any of those compounds and you'll get a lot more as well and using both of these extrenes we isolate out the free T effect as that is a side of masteron and dependent on test inclusion, not direct from masteron.

I really wanted to like Masteron as a main cycle component. I had a ton of it. It goes used and I was happy but it plays no part aside of feeling good and aesthetics in my cycles similar to proviron (which is the loser of all lbm battles).
 

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