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Lumbar Fusion: Any Peptides Help After Surgery?

Bio (or anyone)--I talked to you a few years back about some of this. About 5 years ago I putting in flooring and ended up in the most severe pain ever. Diagnosed with severe stenosis, spondylolithesis, I was scheduled for laminectomy with fusion of L3,4,5. I ended up going to a spine wellness center and had them work on it, the decompression helped knock out the pinched nerve that was so debilitating. I did not want the fusion, so I cancelled the surgery and been living with it since. I do notice some left leg weakness, most of all my balance is quite poor but I am not in alot of discomfort. What kind of recovery did you have from your fusion? I understand back surgery is mostly only to relieve the pain symptoms and not so much the other issues. Seeing I am not in pain, not sure if this is recommended for me, but need to do something.

I think the question I would have is whether or not the weakness and balance issues are caused by the impingement of nerves. If in fact they are and the damage is not already permanent, then surgery would be an option and probably necessary to prevent the damage from becoming worse or permanent. I would guess that an EMG/NCV would give you some of the answers regarding whether in fact it is nerve impingement causing those symptoms.
 
My lumbar fusion was L4-s1 also. I will say that it was a very painful recovery! I had quite a bit going on though. I still needed C5-7 fused once I recovered from the lumbar fusion. Not being able to take NSAID's for my autoimmune disease, Ankylosing Spondylitis, really caused a lot of pain.

I will say that once healed, and you do your PT, you won't really notice much of difference as far as movement is concerned.

My surgeon told me point blank that the first month I will be in so much pain that I will regret doing the surgery, but down the road I will be glad I did it. My pain currently at times is excruciating so I am a little scared as I can't imagine it being much worse, but at the same time I am excited because I know once I get through it all, I don't have to live with this again on a daily basis like I have been doing for a while now. It just takes everything out of you to get through the day.
 
Muscle96---yes, I do think my first stop will be getting these tests. With the spinal stenosis, I am sure the nerves are affected and compressed somewhat but I do have another issue with my leg, I had my quad tendon attached 5 years ago and was told I need a revision because there is too much slack in the attached tendon causing the leg to buckle he first 15%. This may also be why my weak leg and balance issues are there.
A bodybuilder getting old sucks huh?
 
Bio (or anyone)--I talked to you a few years back about some of this. About 5 years ago I putting in flooring and ended up in the most severe pain ever. Diagnosed with severe stenosis, spondylolithesis, I was scheduled for laminectomy with fusion of L3,4,5. I ended up going to a spine wellness center and had them work on it, the decompression helped knock out the pinched nerve that was so debilitating. I did not want the fusion, so I cancelled the surgery and been living with it since. I do notice some left leg weakness, most of all my balance is quite poor but I am not in alot of discomfort. What kind of recovery did you have from your fusion? I understand back surgery is mostly only to relieve the pain symptoms and not so much the other issues. Seeing I am not in pain, not sure if this is recommended for me, but need to do something.

Well, if you're not in pain most doctors would say there's no reason for the surgery. After reading Muscles reply to this and your reply about your leg, I would do some more imaging and see what's going on with the spine structurally. Get the knee revision done, fully recover and see where you're at.

As for lumbar fusion surgery, I mentioned previously that it was a painful recovery. If it was just s1, it wouldn't be that bad. L4-s1 is a painful recovery. L3-5, I would imagine, would also be quite painful BUT quality of life is more important. The time spent in post op pain is very short when looking back.
 
Thank you!
I picking my insurance now for next year with my company, looking to make 2021 a "fix me" year. I started with the leg a couple months ago and was told when I was making the surgery date that the Ortho would not do my surgery, so back to square one. I had this issue when I first had it done, most don't want to touch it because its not easy.
 
Thank you!
I picking my insurance now for next year with my company, looking to make 2021 a "fix me" year. I started with the leg a couple months ago and was told when I was making the surgery date that the Ortho would not do my surgery, so back to square one. I had this issue when I first had it done, most don't want to touch it because its not easy.

Get another opinion or two. If you have 3 doctors with three different opinions, that's not good. When you have 3 that agree, it gives some piece of mind!
 
Well, if you're not in pain most doctors would say there's no reason for the surgery. After reading Muscles reply to this and your reply about your leg, I would do some more imaging and see what's going on with the spine structurally. Get the knee revision done, fully recover and see where you're at.

As for lumbar fusion surgery, I mentioned previously that it was a painful recovery. If it was just s1, it wouldn't be that bad. L4-s1 is a painful recovery. L3-5, I would imagine, would also be quite painful BUT quality of life is more important. The time spent in post op pain is very short when looking back.

2 weeks ago I had revision surgery fusion from L1-S2. Last year Oct had fusion from L1-S1 and the neurosurgeon screwed up
installing the hardware that came apart and screws broke in pelvic bone. Found another surgeon who tore it all out and re did it all over again.
I had disc bulging at L1-2, spinal canal narrowing, L2-3 same thing all the way down including bone spurs severe arthritis through out
entire spine. L4-L5, and L5-S1 severe narrowing of the spine canal same thing Spondylosis to where walking and balance was bad. I tried to live with it and wanted to avoid surgery as much as possible too. But in most cases like mine it will never get better and a good chance developing permanent nerve damage. First surgery was very painful and failed because of his incompetence. Then I did some research and found a great and highly experienced neurosurgeon who redid it and I was prepared to go through more agony then before beings he had to go through scar tissue. But the day after surgery I was actually walking right with hardly any pain at all. I couldn't believe it and getting better by the day. As far as pain issues. I think it has a lot to do with the surgeon. Either that or I lucked out. Because I know back surgery is no picnic. What I did was researched a lot talked to people and found a great surgeon who did an amazing job and I can walk better then I was able to 5 years ago. And pain is almost nonexistent.
 
2 weeks ago I had revision surgery fusion from L1-S2. Last year Oct had fusion from L1-S1 and the neurosurgeon screwed up
installing the hardware that came apart and screws broke in pelvic bone. Found another surgeon who tore it all out and re did it all over again.
I had disc bulging at L1-2, spinal canal narrowing, L2-3 same thing all the way down including bone spurs severe arthritis through out
entire spine. L4-L5, and L5-S1 severe narrowing of the spine canal same thing Spondylosis to where walking and balance was bad. I tried to live with it and wanted to avoid surgery as much as possible too. But in most cases like mine it will never get better and a good chance developing permanent nerve damage. First surgery was very painful and failed because of his incompetence. Then I did some research and found a great and highly experienced neurosurgeon who redid it and I was prepared to go through more agony then before beings he had to go through scar tissue. But the day after surgery I was actually walking right with hardly any pain at all. I couldn't believe it and getting better by the day. As far as pain issues. I think it has a lot to do with the surgeon. Either that or I lucked out. Because I know back surgery is no picnic. What I did was researched a lot talked to people and found a great surgeon who did an amazing job and I can walk better then I was able to 5 years ago. And pain is almost nonexistent.
this is awesome! really makes my day to see a post where someone comes out of a back surgery on the good side. What are you able to do/recommended in terms of leg training once you're healed up?
 
this is awesome! really makes my day to see a post where someone comes out of a back surgery on the good side. What are you able to do/recommended in terms of leg training once you're healed up?

No sure yet. Had surgery Oct 20th actually. Because there were mult. as in 6 fusions I guarantee it won't even be a thought
for at least 6 months. They say complete solid fusion takes 6 months to a year. And yes I lucked out and found one of the top
surgeons in the Baltimore area that was willing to redo a fuck up. Some surgeons don't like to go behind someone else's work.

muscle96ss, I know what it's like to make that dissension on weather or not get it done. Heard so much crap from doctors
telling me yes and no. Finally said screw it can't live like this. As Bio said, the quality of life is more important then a few weeks
of pain.
 
My surgeon told me point blank that the first month I will be in so much pain that I will regret doing the surgery, but down the road I will be glad I did it. My pain currently at times is excruciating so I am a little scared as I can't imagine it being much worse, but at the same time I am excited because I know once I get through it all, I don't have to live with this again on a daily basis like I have been doing for a while now. It just takes everything out of you to get through the day.
I’m in the midst of scheduling surgery, same levels, probably a lot of the same processes(is your stenosis central or foraminal?)including the listhisis, and I feel exactly the way you explain in this post.
 
I’m in the midst of scheduling surgery, same levels, probably a lot of the same processes(is your stenosis central or foraminal?)including the listhisis, and I feel exactly the way you explain in this post.

The MRI shows both, but I don't think any of my symptoms are from central thus far. I actually think that a large portion of my symptoms are from the arthritic facet joint and the synovial cyst that is associated with it. I am having my fourth epidural on thursday since the beginning of september and they have already drained it twice.
 
The MRI shows both, but I don't think any of my symptoms are from central thus far. I actually think that a large portion of my symptoms are from the arthritic facet joint and the synovial cyst that is associated with it. I am having my fourth epidural on thursday since the beginning of september and they have already drained it twice.

As you can see by now draining the cyst isnt gonna help for long. It directly communicates with the facet so its just gonna keep on filling up again until the surgery is done.

If you think a lot of your pain is from the facets they can simply inject the facets only and see how much pain relief you get.
 
As you can see by now draining the cyst isnt gonna help for long. It directly communicates with the facet so its just gonna keep on filling up again until the surgery is done.

If you think a lot of your pain is from the facets they can simply inject the facets only and see how much pain relief you get.

Actually they did the opposite. The last epidural(2 weeks ago), they did L4-L5 and L5-S1 and didn't do the facet joint. They didn't tell me they weren't going to do the facet joint and I didn't find out until after when I asked how much fluid they got out this time. And instead of getting great relief like I normally do, I got maybe 15% relief. They then said they couldn't redo until 2 weeks and needless to say these 2 weeks have been excruciating.
 
Bio (or anyone)--I talked to you a few years back about some of this. About 5 years ago I putting in flooring and ended up in the most severe pain ever. Diagnosed with severe stenosis, spondylolithesis, I was scheduled for laminectomy with fusion of L3,4,5. I ended up going to a spine wellness center and had them work on it, the decompression helped knock out the pinched nerve that was so debilitating. I did not want the fusion, so I cancelled the surgery and been living with it since. I do notice some left leg weakness, most of all my balance is quite poor but I am not in alot of discomfort. What kind of recovery did you have from your fusion? I understand back surgery is mostly only to relieve the pain symptoms and not so much the other issues. Seeing I am not in pain, not sure if this is recommended for me, but need to do something.
I had a l4/l5 laminectomy about 5 weeks ago. I’m finally off palexia after 11 months being on it and can stand without pain. Prior to that it got so back I couldn’t even stand in the kitchen without pain. I can finally walk again and my left leg no longer goes numb. I haven’t started back lifting yet but the recovery for just the laminectomy and discectomy hasn’t been bad at all. I could have left hospital the day after the surgery. I would keep an eye on it however even if you aren’t in pain, I was rushed through the public system because they felt at my age (28) if they didn’t operate it would lead to severe and permanent disability
 
Actually they did the opposite. The last epidural(2 weeks ago), they did L4-L5 and L5-S1 and didn't do the facet joint. They didn't tell me they weren't going to do the facet joint and I didn't find out until after when I asked how much fluid they got out this time. And instead of getting great relief like I normally do, I got maybe 15% relief. They then said they couldn't redo until 2 weeks and needless to say these 2 weeks have been excruciating.
so you have previously ONLY had the facets injected and you responded well?

If you think a lot of your pain is coming from the facets id certainy have them injected and see what kinda pain relief you get. You can drop some steroids right on in there and if thats a big part of your issue it should take care of it for a while. You could even ablate it.
 
so you have previously ONLY had the facets injected and you responded well?

If you think a lot of your pain is coming from the facets id certainy have them injected and see what kinda pain relief you get. You can drop some steroids right on in there and if thats a big part of your issue it should take care of it for a while. You could even ablate it.

The first 2 times they did 2 levels(L4-L5 and L5-S1) and the face joint along with draining the synovial cyst at the facet joint; and I got good relief for 3 weeks and 5 weeks respectively. The last time they only did the 2 levels and ignored the cyst and facet joint and I got maybe 10-15% relief after a few days(still excruciating). Today(16 days later) they did everything and I already have HUGE relief. So I am going to guess that the facet joint and cyst are the main issues. I have had L4-L5 and L5-S1 issues since my late teens(over 30 years) and have just learned what I can do and what I can't do and dealt with the pain at times when I have to do something I know will hurt(i.e. detailing the car or anything involving extension). It will hurt real bad for a day or so and then completely go away. The pain I have been having the past 1.5 years is very different as it is more in the R hip region.
 
Did they say where the synovial cyst was? Was it anterior compressing the dural sac or was it posterior? Reason i ask is most of these epidurals are done via fluoro. Its next to impossible ( any probably shouldnt even try) to drain a synovial cyst having mass efffect on the dural sac anteriorly. its possible it was posterioly but if its posterior its not really doing anything with the nerve.

If it were my back id ask them to inject my facets only next time and see what sorta relief you get. Id also find out where this synovial cyst is. If you have an MRI report it should say on it.
 
Did they say where the synovial cyst was? Was it anterior compressing the dural sac or was it posterior? Reason i ask is most of these epidurals are done via fluoro. Its next to impossible ( any probably shouldnt even try) to drain a synovial cyst having mass efffect on the dural sac anteriorly. its possible it was posterioly but if its posterior its not really doing anything with the nerve.

If it were my back id ask them to inject my facets only next time and see what sorta relief you get. Id also find out where this synovial cyst is. If you have an MRI report it should say on it.

Here is the MRI report. Also she drained 2cc this time and poked holes in the capsule so that anything left would drain. She said that the first time there was a lot more drainage and the 2nd time there was about the same as today. Lumbar_MRI.jpg
 
Here is the MRI report. Also she drained 2cc this time and poked holes in the capsule so that anything left would drain. She said that the first time there was a lot more drainage and the 2nd time there was about the same as today.View attachment 122864

You back has issues lol

Well they are implying the synovial cyst is resulting in part of the mass effect on the lateral recesses so its anterior. With the large facet effusions its all communicating so no matter what part they drain its gonna temporarily results in some masss effect improvement.

While a lot of your pain is coming from the facets doing a local injection ( like i suggested earlier) is not gonna offer any real benefit so dont bother. You need a 4-5 lami and posterior spinal fusion likely with intervebral spacer. Discectomy at 5-1. some people may consider removing some of the disc at 3-4 but thats not a pressing issue.

95% chance i know the guy who read your report. Its a small world and i know the neuro and msk guys for vrad.
 
You back has issues lol

Well they are implying the synovial cyst is resulting in part of the mass effect on the lateral recesses so its anterior. With the large facet effusions its all communicating so no matter what part they drain its gonna temporarily results in some masss effect improvement.

While a lot of your pain is coming from the facets doing a local injection ( like i suggested earlier) is not gonna offer any real benefit so dont bother. You need a 4-5 lami and posterior spinal fusion likely with intervebral spacer. Discectomy at 5-1. some people may consider removing some of the disc at 3-4 but thats not a pressing issue.

95% chance i know the guy who read your report. Its a small world and i know the neuro and msk guys for vrad.

Yeah, he said 3-4 wasn't necessary at this point and he was concerned with fusing more than 2 levels resulting in too much stress on the other lumbar levels.

That's crazy you know those guys. You don't happen to know Michael Chang, MD in Tempe/Scottsdale AZ. He is the one doing the surgery? Supposed to be one of the best out here.

I feel great since yesterdays injections. I only have 4 weeks from today until surgery; so praying they last and that covid doesn't interfere with the scheduling. It is being performed at Oasis, which is a orthopedic and spine surgery hospital; so they shouldn't be effected by covid patients.
 

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