MAJOR Difference In Test Levels With Prop

[nakedsoul]

So... I was on 50mg EOD of Test Prop subq around 6 months or so ago and my blood came back at over 1300. My E2 came back at around 42. Even though my E2 wasn't THAT high... I was experiencing symptoms of high estrogen.

At the advice of an "expert" I switched to 50mg EOD of Test Cyp subq. This time my blood came back at 850. I was taking 12.5 mg of Aromasin EOD on the day of my shots and my E2 came back at 17. This time I was experiencing symptoms of low E2.

So... I backed the Aromasin down to 6.25 mg EOD. Even so... I still started getting symptoms that maybe I crashed my E2.

My body seems to be ultra sensitive to estrogen as I will get wide fluctuations in the strength of my erections depending on where I am at. They always seem to get softer the night after my shot.

I just skipped a shot and tonight my erection strength was much better than it has been in a while. I noticed my morning wood was better this morning as well.

Because of this... I am tempted to go the low dose route for a while at 20mg EOD as recommended by Emeric. I don't really want to back down as I am quite happy with the way my body is looking at the moment. However... no matter what I do, I just can't seem to get dialed in properly after trying for quite a few years now.

I know I went sideways on this post a bit, but I was pretty shocked at the difference in my test level between 50mg of Prop vs 50mg of Cyp.

Any thoughts?

 

[hoover291]

Prop carries more test per mg then cyp. This is a starting point as to why you are having fluctuation in your test level.

Prop hits faster and harder then cyp. I dont have the actual numbers but I do know if you use prop at 250 a week and cyp 250 a week. You get more test in your blood with the prop.

I also have estrogen that likes to go way up and way down. So I go for the formastine rout. It doesnt crash my e2 but I am on 250 mg of test a week. Two shots of test e a week. If I go any higher I would have to use something else.

And body fat and liver functions effect your e2. The lower your body fat. The lower the issues with estrogen can become. Some have overactive reactions in the liver. And your body ends up converting more test into estrogen. But this is all genetic.
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[nakedsoul]

Thanks for the reply. Yes, I realize that about Prop. I just didn't realize it could make such a dramatic difference. From 850 - 1300 is a much bigger gap than I expected.

My body fat is high single digits so no issues there. I was kinda surprised that my E2 was only 42 with my Test being over 1300 with no AI on the Prop. The subq really does seem to make a difference in my case.

I will have to look into the formastine.

 

[hoover291]

It could also be your supplier of prop vs "c". One just might have more in it.

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[Bio]

Using Aromasin was not a good idea considering what your E2 number was. Arimidex would have been a better choice, twice a week since you were using such a low dose. Keep doing blood work and get that figured out!

 

[emeric delczeg]

Prop carries more test per mg then cyp. This is a starting point as to why you are having fluctuation in your test level.

Prop hits faster and harder then cyp. I dont have the actual numbers but I do know if you use prop at 250 a week and cyp 250 a week. You get more test in your blood with the prop.

I also have estrogen that likes to go way up and way down. So I go for the formastine rout. It doesnt crash my e2 but I am on 250 mg of test a week. Two shots of test e a week. If I go any higher I would have to use something else.

And body fat and liver functions effect your e2. The lower your body fat. The lower the issues with estrogen can become. Some have overactive reactions in the liver. And your body ends up converting more test into estrogen. But this is all genetic.
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One more time, Prop it doesn't hit you faster, Cyp hit you 4 hours faster, prop increases the initial undesired testosterone peak and worsens the pharmacokinetic profile.

Pharmacokinetics describes how the body affects a specific drug after administration through the mechanisms of absorption and distribution, as well as the chemical changes of the substance in the body.

 

[hoover291]

Using Aromasin was not a good idea considering what your E2 number was. Arimidex would have been a better choice, twice a week since you were using such a low dose. Keep doing blood work and get that figured out!

Just curious. I hear conflicts about these two AI's all the time. Why would one be better choice on low dose test?

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[nakedsoul]

It could also be your supplier of prop vs "c". One just might have more in it.

I am using Pharma grade on both.

Using Aromasin was not a good idea considering what your E2 number was. Arimidex would have been a better choice, twice a week since you were using such a low dose. Keep doing blood work and get that figured out!

I had never used Aromasin before and from all the good things I had read about it, I figured I would try it out at a really low dose. I guess it was not the right choice.

Since my E2 is relatively low, what would be a good place to start with the Arimidex? You think .25mg a couple times per week could still be enough to cause a crash?

I am very intrigued by this androgen sensitivity concept Emeric talks about. From the research I have done, it seems to make a lot of sense.

I stay looking pretty full and vascular at my current dosage. I have a feeling I would look a bit softer on 10mg EOD. But... I think I could probably get by without any AI whatsoever at a lower dose.

I am thinking if I bump it down for 8 weeks, maybe I will regain sensitivity and get better results if I bump it back up for a while after that.

 

[LK3]

One more time, Prop it doesn't hit you faster, Cyp hit you 4 hours faster, prop increases the initial undesired testosterone peak and worsens the pharmacokinetic profile.

Pharmacokinetics describes how the body affects a specific drug after administration through the mechanisms of absorption and distribution, as well as the chemical changes of the substance in the body.

very interesting...
you know I play a lot with esters n bases...

been using prop for trt recently 10-20iu 200mg/ml prop 4-5 times wk n blood levels came back on low end.. 300s

I "feel" it much less too, I "feel" like I am off aas. lol
blood work shows basically that too.

working with these doses n various esters over time you really can see how they react with you! :lightbulb:

good post!

 

[heroish]

So... I was on 50mg EOD of Test Prop subq around 6 months or so ago and my blood came back at over 1300. My E2 came back at around 42. Even though my E2 wasn't THAT high... I was experiencing symptoms of high estrogen.

At the advice of an "expert" I switched to 50mg EOD of Test Cyp subq. This time my blood came back at 850. I was taking 12.5 mg of Aromasin EOD on the day of my shots and my E2 came back at 17. This time I was experiencing symptoms of low E2.

So... I backed the Aromasin down to 6.25 mg EOD. Even so... I still started getting symptoms that maybe I crashed my E2.

My body seems to be ultra sensitive to estrogen as I will get wide fluctuations in the strength of my erections depending on where I am at. They always seem to get softer the night after my shot.

I just skipped a shot and tonight my erection strength was much better than it has been in a while. I noticed my morning wood was better this morning as well.

Because of this... I am tempted to go the low dose route for a while at 20mg EOD as recommended by Emeric. I don't really want to back down as I am quite happy with the way my body is looking at the moment. However... no matter what I do, I just can't seem to get dialed in properly after trying for quite a few years now.

I know I went sideways on this post a bit, but I was pretty shocked at the difference in my test level between 50mg of Prop vs 50mg of Cyp.

Any thoughts?

Why don't you keep it simple and use no AI, go back to prop and adjust the dose down a little to bring E2 lower and see how you feel after six weeks. If your E2 is 42 with over 1300 total t, try 1000/1300*50 mg = 38mg (or 35 /40) and should bring E2 to 32 ish.

Or see what your E2 is with your current cyp dose it should be in 20s.

 

[RamboStallone]

To be honest, 850-1300 on the test range is not that huge of a difference. I'm not surprised by what you found here, it makes sense from the ester weight standpoint on a mg to mg basis.

 

[Massive G]

So... I was on 50mg EOD of Test Prop subq around 6 months or so ago and my blood came back at over 1300. My E2 came back at around 42. Even though my E2 wasn't THAT high... I was experiencing symptoms of high estrogen.

At the advice of an "expert" I switched to 50mg EOD of Test Cyp subq. This time my blood came back at 850. I was taking 12.5 mg of Aromasin EOD on the day of my shots and my E2 came back at 17. This time I was experiencing symptoms of low E2.

So... I backed the Aromasin down to 6.25 mg EOD. Even so... I still started getting symptoms that maybe I crashed my E2.

My body seems to be ultra sensitive to estrogen as I will get wide fluctuations in the strength of my erections depending on where I am at. They always seem to get softer the night after my shot.

I just skipped a shot and tonight my erection strength was much better than it has been in a while. I noticed my morning wood was better this morning as well.

Because of this... I am tempted to go the low dose route for a while at 20mg EOD as recommended by Emeric. I don't really want to back down as I am quite happy with the way my body is looking at the moment. However... no matter what I do, I just can't seem to get dialed in properly after trying for quite a few years now.

I know I went sideways on this post a bit, but I was pretty shocked at the difference in my test level between 50mg of Prop vs 50mg of Cyp.

Any thoughts?

I was training a guy a few years ago that was taking a gram of TP a week and his levels came back at 7,000 ng/dl.

 

[rb1013]

Wow ..never would have guessed that high..thanks for info bro

 

[LATS]

Using Aromasin was not a good idea considering what your E2 number was. Arimidex would have been a better choice, twice a week since you were using such a low dose. Keep doing blood work and get that figured out!

agree.. too many dont know that arimidex is great for hrt and very low dose test,, easier to monitor.. but for higher test doses aromasin is better at controlling e2.. on hrt dose take arimidex... on higher dose test take aromasin..

 

[devenidas]

One more time, Prop it doesn't hit you faster, Cyp hit you 4 hours faster, prop increases the initial undesired testosterone peak and worsens the pharmacokinetic profile.

Pharmacokinetics describes how the body affects a specific drug after administration through the mechanisms of absorption and distribution, as well as the chemical changes of the substance in the body.

If anybody wants to read on this in much more detail Emeric explains on it in his ask the pros thread - Emeric as the same question was put to him over there too.