Making gains on TRT

DK0223 · May 22, 2020

Who’s done it? I didn’t wanna clutter the other thread about maintaining on TRT

kingpeon · May 22, 2020

Slow and steady is the name of the game. No need to shock the body with drugs and throw the entire system outta whack. Relying on drugs to do most of the work for you is just ridiculous to me. No reason why you can't gain with high-normal free test levels. If training, diet, sleep, etc. etc. are dialed in you're golden.

DK0223 · May 22, 2020

Yea it’s amazing how our views change as we get older. A younger me would be all about “what’s my next blast” and now I’m talking about gaining on TRT (which is fine). I will say though, it’s been about 6 years since I’ve ran a “cycle”, so I’d be lying if I said I didn’t wanna dabble, just a bit, in the near future. But health is #1 priority these days

w8tlifterty · May 22, 2020

kingpeon said:
Slow and steady is the name of the game. No need to shock the body with drugs and throw the entire system outta whack. Relying on drugs to do most of the work for you is just ridiculous to me. No reason why you can't gain with high-normal free test levels. If training, diet, sleep, etc. etc. are dialed in you're golden.

Sure... up to a point. End of the day, your only as big as your dose (and what your genetics allow). I'm 210 on 100-150mg a week (very low bf). I'm 220+ same condition on 200-225mg a week. Been doing this a VERY long time and everything is on point.

I like you and your approach to the game but you speak matter of factly on numerous topics and I've yet to see a pic. While a pic doesnt validate everything it paints a picture. Many of us low dose/trt guys claim these things but to put it plainly, we are in good shape and big to the general public but any real bodybuilder would be unimpressed. Most of the truly elite guys on this board would be unimpressed w guys like you and I. While I know I carry a large amount of muscle and am as strong as nearly most anyone here... the guys w truly impressive size are a) genetically superior and b) take gear in amounts that support that tissue.

Yes, trt will support tissue that your genetics (and work ethic) will allow. No more. And if your average like most on this board. You will look slightly bigger and better but your not going to be anything special or what I would believe to be truly special after this many years in the game if your genetics arent superior.

For many of us, especially life'ers, it's not about letting the drugs 'do the work'. Its facts of life... your are as big as your dose allows your genetics to be. All other factors being dialed in. It boils down to MG's. I'm not willing to take more than that 250mg threshold. No amount of clean calories or specialized training are going to get me to 240lbs at this dose (lean and conditioned) after 20 years plus. 500mg would in probably 6 to 8 months.

Plain and simple in my opinion

thethinker48 · May 22, 2020

w8tlifterty said:
Sure... up to a point. End of the day, your only as big as your dose (and what your genetics allow). I'm 210 on 100-150mg a week (very low bf). I'm 220+ same condition on 200-225mg a week. Been doing this a VERY long time and everything is on point.

I like you and your approach to the game but you speak matter of factly on numerous topics and I've yet to see a pic. While a pic doesnt validate everything it paints a picture. Many of us low dose/trt guys claim these things but to put it plainly, we are in good shape and big to the general public but any real bodybuilder would be unimpressed. Most of the truly elite guys on this board would be unimpressed w guys like you and I. While I know I carry a large amount of muscle and am as strong as nearly most anyone here... the guys w truly impressive size are a) genetically superior and b) take gear in amounts that support that tissue.

Yes, trt will support tissue that your genetics (and work ethic) will allow. No more. And if your average like most on this board. You will look slightly bigger and better but your not going to be anything special or what I would believe to be truly special after this many years in the game if your genetics arent superior.

For many of us, especially life'ers, it's not about letting the drugs 'do the work'. Its facts of life... your are as big as your dose allows your genetics to be. All other factors being dialed in. It boils down to MG's. I'm not willing to take more than that 250mg threshold. No amount of clean calories or specialized training are going to get me to 240lbs at this dose (lean and conditioned) after 20 years plus. 500mg would in probably 6 to 8 months.

Plain and simple in my opinion

A lot of truth here

And that's why it's an entirely individual matter for each person.

"What is your goal? Are you looking to compete? What is your risk tolerance with this stuff? Where do your genetics sit (honestly)" ; these are questions people should be asking themselves when figuring out long term plans.

I don't bat an eye when I see someone who has 260 lbs of lbm taking 2 grams during contest prep. But if somebody is 215 taking the same amounts, they really should ask themselves if it's worth pursuing this hobby that seriously with their genetic makeup. And if they're cool with it, then that is their decision.

Elvia1023 · May 22, 2020

I noticed you asked the same question in the other thread about trt. I just commented but I will add some thoughts in here as well. The answer to your question all depends upon your current condition and goals. I made the example in the other thread of a guy who is 260 pounds and shredded who had just hit his all time best. Now if he was on say 2 grams (or 1 or 3 or 5 etc) and he dropped down to TRT he 100% could never make gains. The best he could hope for would be maintaining and even that would be a struggle. He may maintain his weight but he would lose that on look especially if his blast was full of tren, avar, winny etc. You simply can't hold that look for long periods when off all the hormones. He could get leaner on TRT but he would lose size and again lose that "on" look but sure still look fantastic.

Now on the opposite end of the spectrum for a guy who isn't that impressive and hasn't been dieting hard and looks ok if he stayed on "trt" he could 100% improve and make great gains if he perfected his diet and training over the long term. Now his genetics would determine how impressive he could look but on say 150mg he could look great even with standard genetics. Well great compared to the average but for bodybuilding he would need a bit more but still he could build an impressive physique on very low doses.

There are also plenty of guys who take lot's of gear and are big and bulky but don't look great. They may be 250 pounds but are over 15% bodyfat. Regardless of their blast dose (2, 3, 4, 5 grams) they could definitely improve on trt as well. So it all depends upon your starting condition. For these guys they could improve and make "gains" but they would have to lose weight (bodyfat). Fact is you don't need a lot of AAS to maintain muscle but you can definitely make yourself look better on a cruise/trt if you weren't great to begin with. So this example could lose approx 30 pounds of mainly fat and be approx 220 on trt and much leaner than before. The weights I put are not important as it could be 300 and 250 it's simply just an example but the main point is you can maintain most of your muscle and lose bodyfat on a low dose if things are perfected.

DK0223 · May 23, 2020

Elvia1023 said:
I noticed you asked the same question in the other thread about trt. I just commented but I will add some thoughts in here as well. The answer to your question all depends upon your current condition and goals. I made the example in the other thread of a guy who is 260 pounds and shredded who had just hit his all time best. Now if he was on say 2 grams (or 1 or 3 or 5 etc) and he dropped down to TRT he 100% could never make gains. The best he could hope for would be maintaining and even that would be a struggle. He may maintain his weight but he would lose that on look especially if his blast was full of tren, avar, winny etc. You simply can't hold that look for long periods when off all the hormones. He could get leaner on TRT but he would lose size and again lose that "on" look but sure still look fantastic.

Now on the opposite end of the spectrum for a guy who isn't that impressive and hasn't been dieting hard and looks ok if he stayed on "trt" he could 100% improve and make great gains if he perfected his diet and training over the long term. Now his genetics would determine how impressive he could look but on say 150mg he could look great even with standard genetics. Well great compared to the average but for bodybuilding he would need a bit more but still he could build an impressive physique on very low doses.

There are also plenty of guys who take lot's of gear and are big and bulky but don't look great. They may be 250 pounds but are over 15% bodyfat. Regardless of their blast dose (2, 3, 4, 5 grams) they could definitely improve on trt as well. So it all depends upon your starting condition. For these guys they could improve and make "gains" but they would have to lose weight (bodyfat). Fact is you don't need a lot of AAS to maintain muscle but you can definitely make yourself look better on a cruise/trt if you weren't great to begin with. So this example could lose approx 30 pounds of mainly fat and be approx 220 on trt and much leaner than before. The weights I put are not important as it could be 300 and 250 it's simply just an example but the main point is you can maintain most of your muscle and lose bodyfat on a low dose if things are perfected.

well said man. Thanks for chiming in. I fall under the “not looking too good to start” so I got a lot of room for improvement

Elvia1023 · May 23, 2020

What exactly are your goals? You obviously want to get it great shape so what stops you? Have you still not hired a coach? Do you think a coach will make you more consistent? I am curious because I see you constantly trying to learn but you never seem to apply anything. Is your gym still shut? Do you have any equipment at home? Have you been training recently?

I don't know all the details and maybe you will do well with someone giving you a diet to follow each day. The point of my post is basically to make you think... and to make you take action on those thoughts. I don't understand why you don't just do what you want. It's very easy to get in shape. You have the knowledge you just need to apply it. You don't even need a coach. It's not like you want to diet down for a show you just want to build some muscle and get in shape again. I don't know I am just curious because you seem to go around in circles.

I know you haven't been in shape for awhile and you have been off all blasts for years. You just need to train and diet on trt. You could use a high dose of "trt" so say 300mg test so essentially a cycle and because it's double of the last few years it should have a massive effect. Although if you haven't trained and dieted consistently maybe do that for a few months on trt first. You are asking the question in this thread... "Can I make gains on TRT"... surely you already knew the answer to that question. Why don't you just make gains on trt instead of asking about it. You could even do a log to make yourself accountable and it would be interesting to see how you go about things.

Biggerp73 · May 23, 2020

Testosterone is the same, diet is the same...but if weights are increasing, then it's virtually physically impossible not to be making gains.

Singles, doubles, triples... Five by fives... Heavy negatives with a spotter... Mixed in with regular bodybuilding workouts... Increase the strength, and then pump the weights... Repeat

Anabolic_Beast · May 24, 2020

TRT at a dose of say 175 mg test E (125mg every 5 days is sweet spot IMHO) will allow you to train very very hard with super high energy, recovery fast and aid in your performance department down there without the estrogen issues (and for some without the need for ED sups and other support aids) and just all of the good parts test can offer and keep your blood work looking good and clean AND be incredibly gentle on your wallet. I mean..how can you really beat that? Clean liver, clean cholesterol profile, good working and functioning kidneys..good prostate levels..etc..and you just keep making natural like gains that are actually YOURS and isn't fake..just gains made by hard work and diet that is YOURS to keep.
The problems we hear about when side effects come into equation is that people start to abuse the medicine..and the conversions to estrogen, progesterone, prolactin, etc etc gets all out of whack..and then they have to control the estrogen with powerful stuff like arimidex and or other stuff which hurts the blood work..and then everybody blames the big bad steroids.

kingpeon · May 24, 2020

w8tlifterty said:
For many of us, especially life'ers, it's not about letting the drugs 'do the work'. Its facts of life... your are as big as your dose allows your genetics to be. All other factors being dialed in. It boils down to MG's. I'm not willing to take more than that 250mg threshold. No amount of clean calories or specialized training are going to get me to 240lbs at this dose (lean and conditioned) after 20 years plus. 500mg would in probably 6 to 8 months.

Plain and simple in my opinion

Very well said! It would only make sense that if you've got the test levels of a healthy 24 year old man, x 5, that you're going to be the 800 lb. Silverback Gorilla in the room.