Making sure this is perfect (for 2-3 years down the road)-1st cycle

[fitzchivalry]

I've always been an overanalyzer/overthinker (which in this case is probably a good thing) and this is my proposed cycle for a bit down the road. As of right now I'm only just about to turn 23 years old so I have plenty of room to grow still. Better to learn early however.
After reading on here and comparing it to other boards I believe that there are much more level-headed individuals here than on most. Until I came here I never even considered going below 500 mg a week and expect to get gains.

Week 1-10:
Test E 250

PCT:
12-13: Clomid 100 mg for week 12 and 50 for week 13
12-18: Nolva 20 mg

Possible on cycle: Armidex .25 (eod)

Considering POSSIBLE (emphasis on possible) usage of T-bol or something pretty mild up front (week 1-4 or 6). I am strongly afraid of orals however.

 

[alecaf]

give your stats. only then ca we give you advice and tell you if u are even ready for a cycle.

Give:
- stats
- experience
- diet
- goals
- otc sups to be used with cycle

 

[fitzchivalry]

These are my stats currently (like I said I wouldn't even consider this until several years down the road so I suspect I should be able to improve upon them). Have run a ph (with proper pct) in the past and got/am shut down pretty badly on it but getting a little better, hence the fear of orals. Diet is on point for a natty trainee. Moderate protein (generally around 210 grams of complete proteins a day), 20-25% fats, rest filled in with carbs. Have been offered several modeling opportunities and that is mainly the look I am going for which may be able to be achieved naturally in the timespan that I'm giving myself. So aiming for about 185-190 at about 8% BF.

5'8 1/2
170 ish
10 ish
(obvious room for growth)

Bench:305
Squat: 335
Deads: 365
Curl:135

 

[fitzchivalry]

I also found this interesting and posted this on another forum but didn't get much of a response to it.
"I've been talking to this guy at my gym for a bit now and he continually keeps telling me that Test at my age (nearing 23) would be a bad idea and that EQ is much milder. "Trust me," he said. He's run tons of cycles and pretty much everything in the books. This goes against everything that I've read/learned as Test is supposed to be the base of every cycle. He told me that EQ won't shut you down as much as Test would. Don't get me wrong, I don't plan on doing anything until maybe (if then even) when I'm 26 or 27 but I still like to learn and find them interesting. I told him that "You're going against what everyone says to do for a first timer". Am I the crazy one?"


And than while searching around I found this from a reliable source.
"Those who take megadoses of Testosterone enanthate will already feel an enormous pump in their upper thighs and calves when climbing stairs. Despite this we recommend that steroid novices stay away from all testosterone compounds. To make it very clear: Those who have never taken steroids do not yet need any testosterone and should wait until later when the "weaker" steroids begin to have little effect. For the more advanced, Testosterone enanthate can either be taken alone or in combination with other compounds."
Implying that someone just beginning should not be using it as a first step. Rather interesting.

And this:
"In our opinion the most sensible dosage for most athletes is between 250-1000 mg/week. Normally a higher dosage should not be necessary. When taking up to 500 mg/week the dosage is normally taken all at once, thus 2 ml of solution are injected. A higher dosage should be divided into two injections per week. The quantity of the dose should be determined by the athlete's developmental stage, his goals, and the quantity of his previous steroid intake. The so-called beach and disco bodybuilders do not need 1000 mg of Testosterone enanthate/week. Our experience is that the Testosterone enanthate dosage for many, above all, depends on their financial resources. Since it is not, by any means, the most economic testosterone, most athletes do not take too much."

I def agree with the last quoted part, but I found the preceding paragraph before that somewhat odd.

 

[oldfella]

With regards to the guy at your gym that has run tons of cycles........anything androgenic will shut you down period. No such thing as "as much". So if it is androgenic it will shut you down. This is why generally you are wqise to run test with any cycle, be it on it's own or with another compound. Once your normal production is iterruppted then you do not have any test going on. this will hinder your gains.

 

[drob29]

I also found this interesting and posted this on another forum but didn't get much of a response to it.
"I've been talking to this guy at my gym for a bit now and he continually keeps telling me that Test at my age (nearing 23) would be a bad idea and that EQ is much milder. "Trust me," he said. He's run tons of cycles and pretty much everything in the books. This goes against everything that I've read/learned as Test is supposed to be the base of every cycle. He told me that EQ won't shut you down as much as Test would. Don't get me wrong, I don't plan on doing anything until maybe (if then even) when I'm 26 or 27 but I still like to learn and find them interesting. I told him that "You're going against what everyone says to do for a first timer". Am I the crazy one?"


And than while searching around I found this from a reliable source.
"Those who take megadoses of Testosterone enanthate will already feel an enormous pump in their upper thighs and calves when climbing stairs. Despite this we recommend that steroid novices stay away from all testosterone compounds. To make it very clear: Those who have never taken steroids do not yet need any testosterone and should wait until later when the "weaker" steroids begin to have little effect. For the more advanced, Testosterone enanthate can either be taken alone or in combination with other compounds."
Implying that someone just beginning should not be using it as a first step. Rather interesting.

And this:
"In our opinion the most sensible dosage for most athletes is between 250-1000 mg/week. Normally a higher dosage should not be necessary. When taking up to 500 mg/week the dosage is normally taken all at once, thus 2 ml of solution are injected. A higher dosage should be divided into two injections per week. The quantity of the dose should be determined by the athlete's developmental stage, his goals, and the quantity of his previous steroid intake. The so-called beach and disco bodybuilders do not need 1000 mg of Testosterone enanthate/week. Our experience is that the Testosterone enanthate dosage for many, above all, depends on their financial resources. Since it is not, by any means, the most economic testosterone, most athletes do not take too much."

I def agree with the last quoted part, but I found the preceding paragraph before that somewhat odd.

All three of those quoted pieces in your post are rubbish. It just goes to show what you can find on line, and why people who dont do enough research can go off on some "recommended" cycle and end up in a mess.

Glad to see your looking to do research early on. Speaking of reseach, at 170 lbs, you really need to spend MUCH more time reserching your diet. Its not the AAS that add size, its the diet/workout/rest rest that supports real growth. Here is a good site to get you started:

www.fitday.com

free to join. It will help you understand what your really eating (your not eating what you think you are) and you can work on it from there.

WAY to many people go to AAS before they should, not understanding how critical diet is for growth. Spend more time researching diet than AAS at this point, you should pack on another 25-30 lbs over the next 2 years naturally.

hope this helped. later

 

[fitzchivalry]

All three of those quoted pieces in your post are rubbish. It just goes to show what you can find on line, and why people who dont do enough research can go off on some "recommended" cycle and end up in a mess.

Glad to see your looking to do research early on. Speaking of reseach, at 170 lbs, you really need to spend MUCH more time reserching your diet. Its not the AAS that add size, its the diet/workout/rest rest that supports real growth. Here is a good site to get you started:

www.fitday.com

free to join. It will help you understand what your really eating (your not eating what you think you are) and you can work on it from there.

WAY to many people go to AAS before they should, not understanding how critical diet is for growth. Spend more time researching diet than AAS at this point, you should pack on another 25-30 lbs over the next 2 years naturally.

hope this helped. later

Did you even read my post? That was rather uncalled for I would say (tone wise). I have no plans on doing anything until several years down the road minimum.

I thought they were "rubbish" as you put it as well but I'd rather not do something stupid and regret it later on in my life. If I hadn't done research I wouldn't have found that quote at all and would have just went with the masses of people that say do AT LEAST 500 test per week with a toxic oral to start it off and call it good. I would think that shows that I am looking/have reasearched etc. and am approaching it from all angles.

And egads man. Fitday!? Do you think I'm an idiot. Of course I know what that is and don't be questioning my diet, etc. There is no need for me to research my dieting in the least. Just because I'm 170 lbs at THIS MOMENT? Lol. Ridiculous. For working out completely healthy for only about 10 months I think I've done pretty well for myself statwise/progression. I used to be 125 lbs. two years ago.

I'm not "eating what I think I am"? What was that for? Laughable to the extreme. I know exactly what I'm eating. Each meal is planned out in advance, etc.
Please don't respond unless you've read the thread and don't pull things out of the air like that. Your post was rather pointless.

Of course diet is most important or I'd be one of the ones trying to run 3-4 different compounds on my first cycle.

I'm a newb to steroids as far as using goes, not to training/diet.
Your "talking down to" tone was completely unnecessary.

I'm sorry to anyone else reading this but that guy just went off on the total wrong direction.

 

[fitzchivalry]

With regards to the guy at your gym that has run tons of cycles........anything androgenic will shut you down period. No such thing as "as much". So if it is androgenic it will shut you down. This is why generally you are wqise to run test with any cycle, be it on it's own or with another compound. Once your normal production is iterruppted then you do not have any test going on. this will hinder your gains.

That was helpful and a good reply. I have much respect for your opinion and Dad's. I've told the guy the same thing. I really just think that he is a "rare breed" as he has only felt being shut down by deca and never runs PCT, etc.

if you have "obvious room for growth." i would save your money invest in food, ask about a diet plan to get you to grow, THEN when room for growth isn't so obvious start to look into more powerful supplements. -STEELE

Thanks for trying to steer me in the right direction, but I don't think you understand quite what I am saying/doing. I don't plan on doing this until more around the age of 26 or 27 (if ever). However, I can thank you for not talking down to me like the other responder did. I know how to grow. I thought you were supposed to reasearch steroids years in advance and come to a decision? Not just jump on them? I have my diet down.

Sorry about the tirade above as it most definetely does not include either of you.

 

[drob29]

..... There is no need for me to research my dieting in the least. .

all righty then...

If you were 125 lbs two years ago and now your 170, and you want to be 185lbs, then no need for you to go use steroids. Your just about there naturally.

Also , I am motivated to assist others because I want to help, and if you dont like my tone, tough shit. I am not the biggest, strongest, most experienced AAS person here, as a matter of fact there are MANY people here with more experience than I. And, if you got offended by my post then you need to toughen up. On other sites I post at I have throttled people like you with a flamethrower reducing them to meaningless piles of ash and dust when needed. You think my post here was harsh, it wasn't, and wasn't intended to be. You would have known it if it was.

For the record I am not some 165 lb 22 yo punk, I am 44, 218, 12%, didnt touch AAS until I was over 40.

good luck to you bro, for someone with many questions you seem to have many answers already.

 

[tkav1980]

heres a verry simple answer to you question. once you over 200lbs naturally and still at about 10%bf take 250mg test e a week, and learn how to do proper PCT. if you cant get to 200 naturally on your own , then higher a trainer like Phil, hell get you there. after that and every other option is exhausted 250 a week is all youll need for years to come. hope this helped.

 

[cpesloco]

Did you even read my post? That was rather uncalled for I would say (tone wise). I have no plans on doing anything until several years down the road minimum.

I thought they were "rubbish" as you put it as well but I'd rather not do something stupid and regret it later on in my life. If I hadn't done research I wouldn't have found that quote at all and would have just went with the masses of people that say do AT LEAST 500 test per week with a toxic oral to start it off and call it good. I would think that shows that I am looking/have reasearched etc. and am approaching it from all angles.

And egads man. Fitday!? Do you think I'm an idiot. Of course I know what that is and don't be questioning my diet, etc. There is no need for me to research my dieting in the least. Just because I'm 170 lbs at THIS MOMENT? Lol. Ridiculous. For working out completely healthy for only about 10 months I think I've done pretty well for myself statwise/progression. I used to be 125 lbs. two years ago.

I'm not "eating what I think I am"? What was that for? Laughable to the extreme. I know exactly what I'm eating. Each meal is planned out in advance, etc.
Please don't respond unless you've read the thread and don't pull things out of the air like that. Your post was rather pointless.

Of course diet is most important or I'd be one of the ones trying to run 3-4 different compounds on my first cycle.

I'm a newb to steroids as far as using goes, not to training/diet.
Your "talking down to" tone was completely unnecessary.

I'm sorry to anyone else reading this but that guy just went off on the total wrong direction.

We must be reading two different posts as Drob appeared to be offering solid advice and you my friend appear to be the Dick.
also the term you were trying to spit out was condescending, which his post did not entail. Your first post praised this board and members for solid advice, so stop being a douche when people are trying to help.

 

[pesty4077]

heres a verry simple answer to you question. once you over 200lbs naturally and still at about 10%bf take 250mg test e a week, and learn how to do proper PCT. if you cant get to 200 naturally on your own , then higher a trainer like Phil, hell get you there. after that and every other option is exhausted 250 a week is all youll need for years to come. hope this helped.

Good advice! I was 160 at 6'1" and went to 200 without AAS. I heard on this post he says he knows about diet, OK, Post It! Fitzchivary, This is the best board out there, with the most soild advice coming from guys who been there done that. We will help you, but you have to have an open mind, and be ready for constructive advice. At 48, I have started a training program from someone on this site, and I am still learning, and I been lifting 28 years. We do have the best intentions with your health in mind.

 

[WildBB]

Why are you researching a cycle for 2-3 years down the road? That does not make a whole lot of sense to me.

Anyways...post your diet and we will try and help you out bro.

Also...I was completely natural going from 160lbs @ 9-10%bf to 225lbs @ 12-13%bf in a matter of 2-3 years. (I am 75" tall). All it takes is a good diet, consistency, and a positive attitude...

WildBB

 

[fitzchivalry]

all righty then...

If you were 125 lbs two years ago and now your 170, and you want to be 185lbs, then no need for you to go use steroids. Your just about there naturally.

Also , I am motivated to assist others because I want to help, and if you dont like my tone, tough shit. I am not the biggest, strongest, most experienced AAS person here, as a matter of fact there are MANY people here with more experience than I. And, if you got offended by my post then you need to toughen up. On other sites I post at I have throttled people like you with a flamethrower reducing them to meaningless piles of ash and dust when needed. You think my post here was harsh, it wasn't, and wasn't intended to be. You would have known it if it was.

For the record I am not some 165 lb 22 yo punk, I am 44, 218, 12%, didnt touch AAS until I was over 40.

good luck to you bro, for someone with many questions you seem to have many answers already.

The "answer" was simply that you didn't take the time to read my very first post saying that I'm not (if ever) planning on doing this for several years and by that time I won't be 170 obviously. You ignored it, bashed on my weight (have you ever seen Timberwolf i.e. Kane Sumabat who hovers around that weight all of the time? Tell him not to use due to his weight). AndYou used Fitday as an example (anyone with any semblance of desire to get someplace in bodybuilding would know of that site or anything similar or they should really not be researching steroids, etc.) and TOLD ME, not asked me, TOLD ME that my diet was basically not up to par, etc.

Honestly, I really think it would be rather hard for you to throttle someone over a computer. I wan't offended or thought it was harsh in the slightest. It was simply not well-thought out/stupid and really didn't have much relevance to my posting, except for the part about those quotes being "rubbish". It was as if you ignored the posts beforehand, except for the weight AT THIS MOMENT.

 

[fitzchivalry]

heres a verry simple answer to you question. once you over 200lbs naturally and still at about 10%bf take 250mg test e a week, and learn how to do proper PCT. if you cant get to 200 naturally on your own , then higher a trainer like Phil, hell get you there. after that and every other option is exhausted 250 a week is all youll need for years to come. hope this helped.

I like your posts on the forum. You are very sensible, etc. Well put. I can get there. It is just a matter of being at the 10% ( I think 12% BF is more realistic due to my measurements).

We must be reading two different posts as Drob appeared to be offering solid advice and you my friend appear to be the Dick.
also the term you were trying to spit out was condescending, which his post did not entail. Your first post praised this board and members for solid advice, so stop being a douche when people are trying to help.

Okay. I wasn't trying to spit anything out. I think I made it clear what I meant or you wouldn't have had trouble understanding it. He thought I don't have any knowledge of diet and thought I was going to jump on the needle right now.

Good advice! I was 160 at 6'1" and went to 200 without AAS. I heard on this post he says he knows about diet, OK, Post It! Fitzchivary, This is the best board out there, with the most soild advice coming from guys who been there done that. We will help you, but you have to have an open mind, and be ready for constructive advice. At 48, I have started a training program from someone on this site, and I am still learning, and I been lifting 28 years. We do have the best intentions with your health in mind.

6'1" 200 is about the same as 5"8 ish 170 (even at this time) just to put up numbers. I definetely agree with you about learning new things, etc. Thank you as well.
I just had the impression that he didn't read or comprehend what I was saying.

Why are you researching a cycle for 2-3 years down the road? That does not make a whole lot of sense to me.

Anyways...post your diet and we will try and help you out bro.

Also...I was completely natural going from 160lbs @ 9-10%bf to 225lbs @ 12-13%bf in a matter of 2-3 years. All it takes is a good diet, consistency, and a positive attitude.

WildBB

Thank you. I will post diet when I get back from work. What's your height, btw?
I thought the proper thing to do was to research years beforehand so you are prepared? At least that is what I've read/been told.