Matt Jansen Opens Up...Dallas, Drugs, Prep, etc.

[KillerStack]

Unfortunately guys don't think they can be completely honest. I mean Matt talks about doing 150mg test a day at the most during prep or 750-1500 max in the off-season. He knew of course that Dallas did more as a teen already. He simply feels he can't just come out and lay it all out there, for example that he did 500mg of test a day or whatever. Same with Chad on various subjects. For example, Chad said he had one or two clients who used Synthol while under him, against his advice. It's ridiculous, you had Nasser and Flex who ruined themselves with it and all the rest.

Matt could have a point that Dallas might not have done as much as the test as the test suggested, or "9cc" as Matt calculated. I imagine, and there might be someone on here who knows about this so correct me if I'm wrong, that a lot of things can affect the test concentration in the sample. Like where the blood was pulled from, time of death relative to the test, position of the body like Matt mentioned, type of product he used (e.g test base vs esters) and so on. Maybe you can only get a range of likely dosage used, and the range could be quite wide.

 

[Elvia1023]

Well... I shot myself in the foot there i was assuming his levels were 10,000 or so...

Jesus... i just don't understand how you can inject that amount of gear into a human body. I'm relatively new to the world of anabolics guess I'm naive

I never get this logic. It's very easy to take lot's of gear in regards to total dosage per week. Someone could have test500 and inject 3ml per day and that is 10.5 grams per week and it's only 3ml per day. There are guys out there taking 10ml AAS daily. Many are shooting 100ml seo every week and that isn't even a high dose... some mental people do that daily. Some of these guys are crazy and will do anything they feel or have been told they need to do.

I doubt Dallas's test dose was anything crazy but my definition of crazy for someone that level is extremely high. Many of those guys are taking over 3 grams of test especially in their off season. I wouldn't even consider 5 grams anything crazy but I guess it depends what else they are running. I haven't a clue what he was running but it wouldn't surprise me if he was on about 5 grams of test (with other things).

Chad and/or Matt are not to to be blamed for his death. He was an adult and they never forced him. Plus he was an abuser from day 1. His first coach is known for high food and high aas. I have heard a few things he had him doing and they are mental and that was when he was really young. Now I will say it's funny the way these coaches act all innocent like they don't put anyone on high doses. There are amateurs right now on approx 3 grams being trained by Chad. Plus from what I have heard Chad isn't even excessive and pretty standard when it comes to AAS. Other coaches are known for higher doses. Chad alluded that he halved Dallas's doses Matt had him on and I don't doubt that is true. I still would never blame Matt for killing him.

Now Nick Trigilli has many issues and they are fairly obvious to most who watch any of his videos. I don't get how he judges bodybuilders for doing exactly what he done himself plus what he has advised in the past as well. Anyway he has done a series of videos with Chad which will bring out many details. The interview was 5 hour long and he has released one part but it had nothing in (he stated there will be about 7 parts). The Dallas and Matt stuff will come out soon so who knows what they say. He usually bigs up his videos and they always disappoint but he does state all the details come out so time will tell. Although it's not like you can really trust a word some of these people state

 

[Kaladryn]

I doubt Dallas's test dose was anything crazy but my definition of crazy for someone that level is extremely high. Many of those guys are taking over 3 grams of test especially in their off season. I wouldn't even consider 5 grams anything crazy but I guess it depends what else they are running. I haven't a clue what he was running but it wouldn't surprise me if he was on about 5 grams of test (with other things).

I think test doses that high are extremely rare even among the biggest pros. Test gets really toxic for most people at a certain dose, usually, around 1.5g IF you have a very high constitution. If you don't have a solid constitution test gets toxic at even lower doses (1g or less). There are plenty of top pros who have been honest about their dosages. There really is an optimal dose for test, for very advanced bodybuilders that is probably around 800mg to 1.2g (maybe 1.5 for some monsters), for most regular competitive bodybuilders it is probably in the 600-800mg range and for most gym bros it is probably 300-500mg. I'm just throwing numbers out there but in 30 years of using test and interacting with other users, I really think these numbers are accurate.

I also know Elvia well enough to know he disagrees with me

 

[Matsuo Munefusa]

what do you mean by toxic @Kaladryn

Just want to make sure I'm understanding you correctly. Are there health markers or is that a feeling they get from overdosing test? I've ran testosterone at 750mg/week and felt like crap, high blood pressure, insomnia, irritability. Is that the toxicity?

 

[dros]

Can someone post the compounds and the amount of dosages he ran?

 

[Elvia1023]

I think test doses that high are extremely rare even among the biggest pros. Test gets really toxic for most people at a certain dose, usually, around 1.5g IF you have a very high constitution. If you don't have a solid constitution test gets toxic at even lower doses (1g or less). There are plenty of top pros who have been honest about their dosages. There really is an optimal dose for test, for very advanced bodybuilders that is probably around 800mg to 1.2g (maybe 1.5 for some monsters), for most regular competitive bodybuilders it is probably in the 600-800mg range and for most gym bros it is probably 300-500mg. I'm just throwing numbers out there but in 30 years of using test and interacting with other users, I really think these numbers are accurate.

I also know Elvia well enough to know he disagrees with me

No I do agree with you on most things you state. I am sure many (most) are on fairly standard doses of test. For many test at larger doses does not get more effective and quite the opposite. Even for me personally I generally feel awful on higher test and it's counterproductive. Even if aromatization is controlled I don't like to use higher test. For me 750mg test per week is about the max before side effects out weigh results. I feel much better on about 300mg test. However, I strongly disagree that 600-800mg is is the common range for regular competitors and 300-500mg for most gym bro's. I don't really think it works like that. Meaning the dose moves up the more advanced someone is. I think a lot of amatuers are probably on more than some top pro's. I see this myself on a daily basis.

Trust me most gym bro's especially these days are not on 300-500mg. Many are but I have come across 100's of very standard guys on 1g+ test. I grew up surrounded by it. It is true many are more sensible and will take approx 2ml test (500-600mg) per week with an anabolic but numbers vary massively. I also think the numbers of good bodybuilders on more than 1.5g test is probably more than you think. Do I think they need that amount... no... but many of them are still pushing the 3 gram (or over) mark. Obviously I am just throwing numbers out there and there is a whole spectrum but even after so many threads over they years I still don't think many realize the extent of the abuse of aas in bodybuilding.

 

[Mike Arnold]

I think test doses that high are extremely rare even among the biggest pros. Test gets really toxic for most people at a certain dose, usually, around 1.5g IF you have a very high constitution. If you don't have a solid constitution test gets toxic at even lower doses (1g or less). There are plenty of top pros who have been honest about their dosages. There really is an optimal dose for test, for very advanced bodybuilders that is probably around 800mg to 1.2g (maybe 1.5 for some monsters), for most regular competitive bodybuilders it is probably in the 600-800mg range and for most gym bros it is probably 300-500mg. I'm just throwing numbers out there but in 30 years of using test and interacting with other users, I really think these numbers are accurate.

I also know Elvia well enough to know he disagrees with me

I agree that anything over 1.5 grams, perhaps 2 grams, is really overdoing it (beyond the point of diminishing returns) and completely unecessary for even the biggest guys. If someone wants additional growth, they will get better results by adding another drug, such as nandrolone, tren or trest, than they will be adding more test. If they really want to maximize their growth potential, adding additional non-methyls is nearly useless. Instead, they should add in other drugs, such as a methyl (D-Bol, Anadrol, SD, Var, etc.), GH, insulin, etc. Adding additional testosterone is just silly, in my opinion.

To be honest, if I was trying to maximize growth in someone, I woudn't even go that high on the test. Rather, I would rely more on trestolone (which will eventually claim the title as the most powerful mass-building non-methyl) as a base drug, as it does everything testosterone does, but more powerfully. There really isn't any reason these days to go the super high test route. The only reason guys ever even did that to begin with was because, at the time, testosterone was the most powerful non-methylated mass-building base drug available. Even though we now know that super high test doses are far from safe, people thought that because it was non-methylated, they could take as much as they wanted with minimal consequences. Now that we know that is untrue, there is no reason for anyone to be using 3-5 grams of test per week. Although I would argue that it was unecessary even back then, there is absolutely no good reason to do so now.

 

[JJT]

No I do agree with you on most things you state. I am sure many (most) are on fairly standard doses of test. For many test at larger doses does not get more effective and quite the opposite. Even for me personally I generally feel awful on higher test and it's counterproductive. Even if aromatization is controlled I don't like to use higher test. For me 750mg test per week is about the max before side effects out weigh results. I feel much better on about 300mg test. However, I strongly disagree that 600-800mg is is the common range for regular competitors and 300-500mg for most gym bro's. I don't really think it works like that. Meaning the dose moves up the more advanced someone is. I think a lot of amatuers are probably on more than some top pro's. I see this myself on a daily basis.

Trust me most gym bro's especially these days are not on 300-500mg. Many are but I have come across 100's of very standard guys on 1g+ test. I grew up surrounded by it. It is true many are more sensible and will take approx 2ml test (500-600mg) per week with an anabolic but numbers vary massively. I also think the numbers of good bodybuilders on more than 1.5g test is probably more than you think. Do I think they need that amount... no... but many of them are still pushing the 3 gram (or over) mark. Obviously I am just throwing numbers out there and there is a whole spectrum but even after so many threads over they years I still don't think many realize the extent of the abuse of aas in bodybuilding.

Out of curiosity is there anything special about test for muscle growth compared to other AAS in the real world (disregarding the anabolic ratios)?

Or is it because cheap, effective and has the least impact on bloods compared to other AAS mg for mg?

 

[JJT]

I agree that anything over 1.5 grams, perhaps 2 grams, is really overdoing it (beyond the point of diminishing returns) and completely unecessary for even the biggest guys. If someone wants additional growth, they will get better results by adding another drug, such as nandrolone, tren or trest, than they will be adding more test. If they really want to maximize their growth potential, adding additional non-methyls is nearly useless. Instead, they should add in other drugs, such as a methyl (D-Bol, Anadrol, SD, Var, etc.), GH, insulin, etc. Adding additional testosterone is just silly, in my opinion.

To be honest, if I was trying to maximize growth in someone, I woudn't even go that high on the test. Rather, I would rely more on trestolone (which will eventually claim the title as the most powerful mass-building non-methyl) as a base drug, as it does everything testosterone does, but more powerfully. There really isn't any reason these days to go the super high test route. The only reason guys ever even did that to begin with was because, at the time, testosterone was the most powerful non-methylated mass-building base drug available. Even though we now know that super high test doses are far from safe, people thought that because it was non-methylated, they could take as much as they wanted with minimal consequences. Now that we know that is untrue, there is no reason for anyone to be using 3-5 grams of test per week. Although I would argue that it was unecessary even back then, there is absolutely no good reason to do so now.

Do you still recommend this trest approach for heavy aromatisers?

 

[Biggerp73]

No I do agree with you on most things you state. I am sure many (most) are on fairly standard doses of test. For many test at larger doses does not get more effective and quite the opposite. Even for me personally I generally feel awful on higher test and it's counterproductive. Even if aromatization is controlled I don't like to use higher test. For me 750mg test per week is about the max before side effects out weigh results. I feel much better on about 300mg test. However, I strongly disagree that 600-800mg is is the common range for regular competitors and 300-500mg for most gym bro's. I don't really think it works like that. Meaning the dose moves up the more advanced someone is. I think a lot of amatuers are probably on more than some top pro's. I see this myself on a daily basis.

Trust me most gym bro's especially these days are not on 300-500mg. Many are but I have come across 100's of very standard guys on 1g+ test. I grew up surrounded by it. It is true many are more sensible and will take approx 2ml test (500-600mg) per week with an anabolic but numbers vary massively. I also think the numbers of good bodybuilders on more than 1.5g test is probably more than you think. Do I think they need that amount... no... but many of them are still pushing the 3 gram (or over) mark. Obviously I am just throwing numbers out there and there is a whole spectrum but even after so many threads over they years I still don't think many realize the extent of the abuse of aas in bodybuilding.

Part of the problem is local drug dealers who advise high doses because it means their "clients" buy more. An old acquaintance came to me recently for advice and told me he just got done with his first cycle. The guy he bought from had him doing 750 test and 750 tren as a first cycle.

 

[Elvia1023]

I agree that anything over 1.5 grams, perhaps 2 grams, is really overdoing it (beyond the point of diminishing returns) and completely unecessary for even the biggest guys. If someone wants additional growth, they will get better results by adding another drug, such as nandrolone, tren or trest, than they will be adding more test. If they really want to maximize their growth potential, adding additional non-methyls is nearly useless. Instead, they should add in other drugs, such as a methyl (D-Bol, Anadrol, SD, Var, etc.), GH, insulin, etc. Adding additional testosterone is just silly, in my opinion.

To be honest, if I was trying to maximize growth in someone, I woudn't even go that high on the test. Rather, I would rely more on trestolone (which will eventually claim the title as the most powerful mass-building non-methyl) as a base drug, as it does everything testosterone does, but more powerfully. There really isn't any reason these days to go the super high test route. The only reason guys ever even did that to begin with was because, at the time, testosterone was the most powerful non-methylated mass-building base drug available. Even though we now know that super high test doses are far from safe, people thought that because it was non-methylated, they could take as much as they wanted with minimal consequences. Now that we know that is untrue, there is no reason for anyone to be using 3-5 grams of test per week. Although I would argue that it was unecessary even back then, there is absolutely no good reason to do so now.

Exactly. There are generally much better compounds out there especially today. Although when it comes to drugs many seem to think like it's a vs b thing and if they hear b is better they super dose it. When in reality usually a stack of sensible/moderate dosed compounds is usually (not always) optimal for most. I personally get much better results from something like 600mg test, 400mg deca and 40mg dbol compared to 1.3g test for example. The same could be said for test, eq and adrol (or sdrol) compared to test only. There is definitely no need for high test but it still doesn't stop people running large doses but for those guys it's usually a more is better mentality for everything.

Out of curiosity is there anything special about test for muscle growth compared to other AAS in the real world (disregarding the anabolic ratios)?

Or is it because cheap, effective and has the least impact on bloods compared to other AAS mg for mg?

Not really. However everyone is different. I have come across guys who love running high test and many run it solo (well usually with hgh and slin). According to them they respond better the higher the dose. I think for the majority of people that is far from the truth. Although Geno supplies many top amateurs and their test dose ranges from 1-8g's (most are in the 3-6g range). For me I get much better results from many other compounds. There are a few reasons why it's so popular in certain parts of the world. The main ones include price and availability. Although that demand stems from the fact many think it's our natural hormone so it is somehow more healthy (and even effective) than other compounds. As Mike posted many thought it was the most powerful drug for many years and most of the top guys used it so that info moves down to every gym on the planet. The health part is true to an extent but not for the doses many people run it at. Although everyone's response is different. Some guys can run decent doses for long periods with no real impact on health markers whilst others take 300mg and get a host of side effects and various blood markers go out of range in a relatively short time. In some parts of the world bodybuilders run the likes of primo, eq and tren much higher than test and even in the US and the UK that is true for some/many people.

Part of the problem is local drug dealers who advise high doses because it means their "clients" buy more. An old acquaintance came to me recently for advice and told me he just got done with his first cycle. The guy he bought from had him doing 750 test and 750 tren as a first cycle.

Yes it's crazy the doses some newbies get put on. People without any morals realize how much more business they will create by putting someone on a stack like that which for many will transform them even if they eat and train poorly. They also try to sell them as much as possible to make as much money regardless if they fuck someones health in the process. When I was coming up a standard first cycle was 600mg sust, 400mg deca and 20-50mg dbol. For many maybe just the sust and dbol or adrol but literally everyone was on a mix of those compounds. 1g total is not uncommon for a 1st cycle these days especially when they are getting their cycle advice from the local gym dealer.

The same can be said for many coaches and they realize if they push certain drugs they will create a certain look that will be noticed. We have been discussing test on here just now but I think abuse gets lost in a sense. I know many who say stuff like I only use 1g test in contest prep like they don't abuse and act like they are sensible. Yet they fail to mention they are also on 1g tren, 1g mast and 100mg's of orals. I can think of a few people known for certain looks and then you find out they have guys on stuff daily like 50mg halo, 300mg proviron, 200mg winny, 100mg tren a, 2.5mg letro etc so the fact they look so dry isn't really that surprising anymore.

 

[Elvia1023]

 

[Kaladryn]

Bostin Loyd is probably the dumbest person I have ever heard when it comes to aas.

 

[Elvia1023]

Bostin Loyd is probably the dumbest person I have ever heard when it comes to aas.

Yes but he knows what a lot of those guys were running. Incase anyone wonders in that video Bostin mentions about Dallas and what O'Regan had him on. They were both trained by O'Regan at the same time and he told him what he has his other guys running. Even when Dallas was really young he was on 2-3 grams test, anabolics and massive doses of insulin and igf-1. That has been backed up by someone else as well who O'Regan trained.

Bostin is very upfront and states about Chad as well. He says he chats with Chad alot but he didn't know he was going to do a video. Basically he states all the same stuff I have heard and seen about Chad and that he is very standard when it comes to aas. Chad uses slightly more hgh than some and likes igf-1 but his slin is low and his aas are pretty standard. By standard you are talking for a good amateur just over 3 grams per week with about 1.5g being test (in the offseason). Now everyone is different but what he says is in line with everything I (and others) have heard over the years. Bostin mentions that Matt had guys run mega high amounts but has changed since Dallas died. How he now has his clients take regular bloodwork and take lot's of health supplements and doses tend to be lower. He also states he reckons Dallas done more than what Matt recommended and he is in no way to blame for his death.

All standard stuff but he mentioned something I had never heard before about a famous female prep coach who has many of his top girls run diuretics for 1 month before shows. How one of his competitors recently died doing it. Basically it's aldactone for 1 month then loads of diazide just before the show. So whilst you may not like or respect the guy he is very open and it shares some stuff others would never mention. Plus this stuff is from good sources and not just hearsay. I hear stuff from time to time and I have guys tell me themselves and order through me so I know how bad some can be but it's still crazy some of the things that come out. People act like he is a bad source of info and not to be trusted but half the people they admire are just that very thing. The amount of bullshit in bodybuilding is huge.

 

[Elvia1023]

I honestly think when you have guys who low dose (which is great and smart) and they advocate low doses a lot of other bodybuilders change their stories to them in a sense. Some just bullshit to everyone. But I have come across guys who have told different things to different people. If someone knows they will probably get a big talk about health from someone they are less likely to be totally upfront. Some just want to hide the truth from people as they think it may avoid them going down the wrong path. Many years ago I remember asking a very popular coach from this forum about doses (test doses) and he told me he knew no one taking 3 grams of test. At the time I knew 2 people being trained by him taking that much test and one of them had been on it for a few years straight with no breaks. So at the end of the day I would trust dosage talk from someone like Bostin way ahead of some of the guys who are more "accepted" on this forum.

 

[Elvia1023]

Bostin Loyd is probably the dumbest person I have ever heard when it comes to aas.

I totally forgot to mention he actually brought up a good point regarding Chad and why he thinks some of his guys may have kidney issues. Now studies have shown protein isn't a kidney killer like many believed for years. However ridiculous amount of protein are definitely not good. Bostin highlighted one thing Chad does that he isn't aware other coaches do and that is having 12-14oz of meat 7 times daily. That is a ridiculous amount of protein and that's why he has guys on appetite booster drugs. One guy wasn't even that heavy (he said something like 224 pounds) and Chad started him on about 720g protein per day which is beyond excessive. There is a guy on this forum and I think Chad has him on 12oz 7 times daily as well.

 

[maldorf]

I totally forgot to mention he actually brought up a good point regarding Chad and why he thinks some of his guys may have kidney issues. Now studies have shown protein isn't a kidney killer like many believed for years. However ridiculous amount of protein are definitely not good. Bostin highlighted one thing Chad does that he isn't aware other coaches do and that is having 12-14oz of meat 7 times daily. That is a ridiculous amount of protein and that's why he has guys on appetite booster drugs. One guy wasn't even that heavy (he said something like 224 pounds) and Chad started him on about 720g protein per day which is beyond excessive. There is a guy on this forum and I think Chad has him on 12oz 7 times daily as well.

That is a crazy amount of meat in a day! I think the most I ever ate was the same 14 OZ serving but only 4 or 5 times a day. The other macros must be fairly low otherwise youd get fat.

 

[KillerStack]

I watched half of that Bostin video, and while Bostin has been stupid and reckless he does come across as genuine, which is huge for me. With all these gurus you always feel there is deception, misdirection and outright bullshit going on. Bostin just doesn't irritate me like all these other guys, even if I think he is wrong on something.

 

[jeroendebleser]

I totally forgot to mention he actually brought up a good point regarding Chad and why he thinks some of his guys may have kidney issues. Now studies have shown protein isn't a kidney killer like many believed for years. However ridiculous amount of protein are definitely not good. Bostin highlighted one thing Chad does that he isn't aware other coaches do and that is having 12-14oz of meat 7 times daily. That is a ridiculous amount of protein and that's why he has guys on appetite booster drugs. One guy wasn't even that heavy (he said something like 224 pounds) and Chad started him on about 720g protein per day which is beyond excessive. There is a guy on this forum and I think Chad has him on 12oz 7 times daily as well.

720g of protein

 

[KillerStack]

720g of protein

Cooked protein.

I wonder what the appetite boosting drugs are which Chad recommends?

Even Palumbo said no way he could have done that.