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MEGADOSING LEUCINE

Cytochrome

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Has any of you guys megadosed leucine, or even EAA or BCAA? I have been having 5g leucine with my 3 meals a day (total 15g/day) and have definitely noticed improve recovery and strength over 30 day period.

Experiences welcome.
 

buck

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I took 2 6-7 grams doses for a couple months and noticed nothing.
 

Landmonster

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I used to religiously do 5g of leucine, 6 times a day. I'd have a little teaspoon before my 6 meals a day.


It definitely will put on some muscle.... but it gets annoying to dose that way. and it is not cheap.


I'm on the fence whether I should keep doing that or not. I've read some conflicting research, but it does seem to work.
 

Cytochrome

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That's interesting i once spent a year bulking I drank mine about the same 4-6 times a day and I had great response to it

Sent from my SM-G920T using Professional Muscle mobile app
I am also having great response. It is too significant to be considered placebo.

Perhaps to the guys who did not see a difference, are you guys developed to advanced level? Level of development might account for this maybe?
 

11111

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I used to religiously do 5g of leucine, 6 times a day. I'd have a little teaspoon before my 6 meals a day.


It definitely will put on some muscle.... but it gets annoying to dose that way. and it is not cheap.


I'm on the fence whether I should keep doing that or not. I've read some conflicting research, but it does seem to work.
if you buy it in bulk it's not too bad cost-wise..
 

Landmonster

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Damn! That does cast doubt for sure. But it does not explain why some respond well to this?
I was taking 30g of Leucine most days. However, it was not the only anabolic thing I was doing in my program.

I was definitely putting on muscle, but it was not the only thing I added at the time. In other words, I was doing everything else to try to grow too...


I was eating 6 big meals a day, I was training very hard, and not skipping workouts. I was taking a moderate dose of anabolics, plus I was taking hGH peptides, etc.

In addition to all that, I figured adding in leucine before meals couldn't hurt.



Edit: Rightly or wrongly, I thought that using a natural substance to increase the mTor pathway would be healthier than throwing in more steroids.

My philosophy has been to maximize the natural muscle-building things, backed by science, before you start messing with artificial drugs.

i.e., it makes no sense to me when guys say they would spend money on D-bol, but think Creatine and BCAAs are a waste.
 
Last edited:

Mike Arnold

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Leucine is HIGHLY effective at simulating protein synthesis and causing muscle growth. The research supporting this is overhwleming and beyond dispute. In fact, I consider leucine to be among the Top 3 basic nutritional supplements for bodybuilders.

However, there are 3 factors you have to take into consideration. Dose, frequency of use, and rapidity of digestion.

Regarding dosage, research shows that roughly 4.5 grams provides a maximum response in protein synthesis, with larger amounts having no additional effect (assuming it is delivered in bolus fashion and absorbed immediately; see rapidity of digestion below).

Furthermore, if you take leucine too frequently, the body desensitizes to its protein synthesis stimulating effect. So, the guys that drink a gallon of leucine/BCAA spiked water all day long are doing themselves a disservice. Leucine works best when taken at timed intervals of every 3-4 hours. This allows enough time for the body to become "re-sensitized" to its protein synthesis stimulating effect.

We also need to consider rapidity of digestion. Since administering leucine via intravenous injection is not practical (or desirable on a long-term basis), it works best when taken on an empty stomach, either 20 minutes before meals or between meals. Taking it with a stomach full of food will drastically slow down its absorption rate, thereby diminishing its protein synthesis stimulating effect.

When researchers studied the 4.5 gram dose (the dose found to maximally stimulate protein synthesis) it was administered in bolus fashion on an empty stomach. Leucine needs to hit the bloodstream all at once (or close to it) in order to have a maximum impact on protein synthesis. Otherwise, the 4.5 gram dose will not work optimally.
 
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Landmonster

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Leucine is HIGHLY effective at simulating protein synthesis and causing muscle growth. The research supporting this is overhwleming and beyond dispute. In fact, I consider leucine to be among the Top 3 basic nutritional supplements for bodybuilders.

However, there are 3 factors you have to take into consideration. Dose, frequency of use, and rapidity of digestion.

Regarding dosage, research shows that roughly 4.5 grams provides a maximum response in protein synthesis, with larger amounts having no additional effect (assuming it is delivered in bolus fashion and absorbed immediately; see rapidity of digestion below).

Furthermore, if you take leucine too frequently, the body desensitizes to its protein synthesis stimulating effect. So, the guys that drink a gallon of leucine/BCAA spiked water all day long are doing themselves a disservice. Leucine works best when taken at timed intervals of every 3-4 hours. This allows enough time for the body to become "re-sensitized" to its protein synthesis stimulating effect.

We also need to consider rapidity of digestion. Since administering leucine via intravenous injection is not practical (or desirable on a long-term basis), it works best when taken on an empty stomach, either 20 minutes before meals (my preference) or between meals. Taking it with a stomach full of food will drastically slow down its absorption rate, thereby diminishing its protein synthesis stimulating effect.

When researchers studied the 4.5 gram dose (the dose found to maximally stimulate protein synthesis) it was administered in bolus fashion on an empty stomach. Leucine needs to hit the bloodstream all at once (or close to it) in order to have a maximum impact on protein synthesis. Otherwise, the 4.5 gram dose will not work optimally.
Right.

So my logic (right or wrong) was that taking a teaspoon all at once (roughly 5g) of Leucine 6 times a day, should maximize the effect it was having.

I was taking it every 3 hours, and immediately consuming a whole food meal afterwards.
 

Elvia1023

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Dave Palumbo things taking in lots of bcaa's or even l-leucine throughout the day throws off the ratios. He believes in using aminos but mainly around training and in certain amounts.

Milos Sarvec believes in amino supplementation throughout the day.

Obviously many have strong opinions but those 2 guys I find most intriguing and they obviously contradict oneanother.

Personally, I 100% notice a difference when taking in either BCAA's or EAA's products (or a mix of the two) throughout the day. I build more muscle and simply look better.

I need to start doing it again consistently. I have Olimp EAA's and BCAA's so I will do a mix of the 2 (1 scoop bcaa's and 2 scoops eaa's). That way I will have a good balance but higher bcaa's (especially l-leucine) and drink them between meals.

I recommend guys try it especially if you are dieting. It's important to stay hydrated so this covers all bases especially for guys who get bored drinking plain water.

Just want to add there is no need to mega dose anything though. Have a good balance of aminos with approx 5g leucine at a time and you should be gtg. Drink 2 of those per day with your standard meals and hopefully you notice a difference.
 
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Landmonster

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Dave Palumbo things taking in lots of bcaa's or even l-leucine throughout the day throws off the ratios. He believes in using aminos but mainly around training and in certain amounts.

Milos Sarvec believes in amino supplementation throughout the day.

Obviously many have strong opinions but those 2 guys I find most intriguing and they obviously contradict oneanother.

Personally, I 100% notice a difference when taking in either BCAA's or EAA's products (or a mix of the two) throughout the day. I build more muscle and simply look better.

I need to start doing it again consistently. I have Olimp EAA's and BCAA's so I will do a mix of the 2 (1 scoop bcaa's and 2 scoops eaa's). That way I will have a good balance but higher bcaa's (especially l-leucine) and drink them between meals.

I recommend guys try it especially if you are dieting. It's important to stay hydrated so this covers all bases especially for guys who get bored drinking plain water.
Yea, I'm not sure about Dave's logic of ratios....

The body seems to be adaptable to whatever we give it, and attempts to discard what is not needed.

For example, it's interesting to me that the body can function on 0 carbs, or extremely high carbs. It can also function on very low protein, or extremely high protein. It simply adapts to the food, and functions differently based on whatever is provided.


I don't know that adding in some isolated amino acids is going to do "damage" to your body by skewing your amino acid ratios. Then again, I'm not a doctor. Just a thinker.


The whole idea behind this line of thinking is that L-Leucine stimulates protein synthesis through the mTor pathway. So, if you spike your blood with a reasonable amount of L-Leucine every few hours, you should have higher than normal protein synthesis. You are maxing that that given pathway for your body to build muscle.

Edit: You can also max out the mTor pathway by simply eating a ton of protein-rich food. All meat proteins contain some amount of Leucine already in them. I suppose the downside of this, is that you'd spend alot of extra money on food, and gain needless calories and fat and other things from your food.

If I was a pro strongman on a 10,000 calorie a day diet and 600g of protein, I probably wouldn't think adding a few teaspoons of Leucine would have much of an effect.
 
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Mike Arnold

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Yea, I'm not sure about Dave's logic of ratios....

The body seems to be adaptable to whatever we give it, and attempts to discard what is not needed.

For example, it's interesting to me that the body can function on 0 carbs, or extremely high carbs. It can also function on very low protein, or extremely high protein. It simply adapts to the food, and functions differently based on whatever is provided.


I don't know that adding in some isolated amino acids is going to do "damage" to your body by skewing your amino acid ratios. Then again, I'm not a doctor. Just a thinker.


The whole idea behind this line of thinking is that L-Leucine stimulates protein synthesis through the mTor pathway. So, if you spike your blood with a reasonable amount of L-Leucine every few hours, you should have higher than normal protein synthesis. You are maxing that that given pathway for your body to build muscle.

Edit: You can also max out the mTor pathway by simply eating a ton of protein-rich food. All meat proteins contain some amount of Leucine already in them. I suppose the downside of this, is that you'd spend alot of extra money on food, and gain needless calories and fat and other things from your food.

If I was a pro strongman on a 10,000 calorie a day diet and 600g of protein, I probably wouldn't think adding a few teaspoons of Leucine would have much of an effect.
It's difficult, if not impossible to maximize protein synthesis via leucine mediated mTOR activation with solid food alone. It simply doesn't digest quickly enough to allow a large enough dose of leucine to hit the bloodstream at once. Even if we could eat enough whole-food protein to allow 4.5 grams of leucine to ht the bloodstream at once, our protein consumption would be outrageous, certainly unhealthy, and end up doing more harm than good from a bodybuilding standpoint.

For his reason I think leucine supplementation is a good idea no matter who someone is. I would much rather max-out leucine mediated mTOR activation by adding some supplemental leucine to my whole food, than pounding down huge and unnecessary quantities of whole-food protein just to try and achieve the same effect. Talk about digestive distress!
 
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Mike Arnold

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Right.

So my logic (right or wrong) was that taking a teaspoon all at once (roughly 5g) of Leucine 6 times a day, should maximize the effect it was having.

I was taking it every 3 hours, and immediately consuming a whole food meal afterwards.
Correct. Science would support this approach.
 

suppdude

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Since lowering protein a considerable amount due to certain health markers being quite elevated, I've been adding roughly 3 grams Leucine per meal. I wasn't doing empty stomach as Mike mentioned, but will go ahead and start doing so.
 

n3mo0101

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but leucine is involved in the MTORC1 growth pathway which some studies have shown to be just as powerful as the IGF pathway
 

Landmonster

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FYI... If anyone is familiar with the bodybuilding.com author Dr. Layne Norton, he did his entire PhD Research on the effects of Leucine and skeletal muscle.

He claims not to use steroids, so maximizing natural protein synthesis is extremely important to him. He claims that using Leucine optimally can have drug-like effects.

He has published various articles on this topic, which influenced my thinking of taking 5g of Leucine 6 times a day.

I would take his word on this topic over opinions from people like Dave Palumbo or Milos. Only because Layne has extensively studied this in an academic setting.

Regarding Dave's theory about Leucine upsetting ratios, Layne has a thought.
- "Leucine depletes the other 2 BCAA from the (blood) plasma when taken alone. This is not a big deal if you are eating a high protein diet because there will be ample BCAA to guard against this, but if you are fasting you will definitely get a depletion so I would recommend 8g of BCAA every 3-4 hours"


For the record, Layne likes using Leucine, BCAAs, and EAAs. Both BCAAs and EAAs contain Leucine, but Leucine is the primary one responsible for protein synthesis. He says you can use Leucine on a budget, but he personally uses BCAAs between meals, and during training. (You need 10g of BCAA to obtain 5g of Leucine)

5g of Leucine is not a magic number. The amount of leucine you need to stimulate protein synthesis depends on how large you are. Any leucine will trigger protein syntehsis to some degree, but to MAXIMALLY stimulate protein synthesis through the mTor pathway, it requires a threshold of leucine. Beyond that, provides no additional benefits.

If I recall, somewhere between 4-6g of Leucine is about right for the average adult male bodybuilder who weighs between 200 and 270lbs. There was a formula somewhere, which I have forgotten.

However, the other 2 BCAAs are not useless. Isoleucine also stimulates protein synthesis, and somehow helps with glucose uptake in muscles. Isoleucine and value both have other beneficial muscle-building effects, of which I am not certain.
 
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Landmonster

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It's difficult, if not impossible to maximize protein synthesis via leucine mediated mTOR activation with solid food alone. It simply doesn't digest quickly enough to allow a large enough dose of leucine to hit the bloodstream at once. Even if we could eat enough whole-food protein to allow 4.5 grams of leucine to ht the bloodstream at once, our protein consumption would be outrageous, certainly unhealthy, and end up doing more harm than good from a bodybuilding standpoint.
Yes you are probably right. I'm going to start back on Leucine for this reason.

I dropped it to due to cost, but a quick search reveals that digestion rates matter.

50-100g of most protein sources certainly would contain 5g of leucine, but it would not be digested rapidly enough to cause a blood spike.
 

Cinder

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Dave Palumbo things taking in lots of bcaa's or even l-leucine throughout the day throws off the ratios. He believes in using aminos but mainly around training and in certain amounts.

Milos Sarvec believes in amino supplementation throughout the day.

Obviously many have strong opinions but those 2 guys I find most intriguing and they obviously contradict oneanother.

Personally, I 100% notice a difference when taking in either BCAA's or EAA's products (or a mix of the two) throughout the day. I build more muscle and simply look better.

I need to start doing it again consistently. I have Olimp EAA's and BCAA's so I will do a mix of the 2 (1 scoop bcaa's and 2 scoops eaa's). That way I will have a good balance but higher bcaa's (especially l-leucine) and drink them between meals.

I recommend guys try it especially if you are dieting. It's important to stay hydrated so this covers all bases especially for guys who get bored drinking plain water.

Just want to add there is no need to mega dose anything though. Have a good balance of aminos with approx 5g leucine at a time and you should be gtg. Drink 2 of those per day with your standard meals and hopefully you notice a difference.
Since I can't take in supplemental protein and can't eat a lot, I rely on EAA for my protein. I get 100 grams of protein a day from food and the rest is from TN essential amino acids (90grams) with added BCAA. Most of my other nutrition comes from rice and healthy fats.
 

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