MEGADOSING LEUCINE

[Cytochrome]

May be a better idea to consume eaa instead

I think that you are right. I won't to lie to you, I'm a phaggot when it comes to gustatory transduction. Taste is a big deal to me.

How do you guys take this battery acid stuff consistently without barfing?

 

[OutToLunch]

I think that you are right. I won't to lie to you, I'm a phaggot when it comes to gustatory transduction. Taste is a big deal to me.



How do you guys take this battery acid stuff consistently without barfing?

Mix with a nicely flavored bcaa like xtend

 

[LedShotter]

Who's eating 600 grams of protein a day????

Some people with big appetites.

 

[Elvia1023]

One of my favourite snacks is bifidus yoghurt with added aminos. I have some pineapple flavoured EAA's and will mix 2 scoops into the yoghurt. Then I add fresh pineapple or other fruit on top. I also have orange flavoured EAA's and I like to put mandarins on top of that flavour.

 

[suppdude]

It mixes quite well with hydrowhey and karbolyn as a shake.

Save yourself some money and drop the hydrowhey. Stick with a MPI + WPC-80 blend.


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[11111]

190grams?
No I'm sorry I meant 100 grams food protein plus I consumed 90 grams of EAA per day. With the assumption that 5 grams EAA equals 15 grams protein. I got that from a few members hear in regards to something called humapro.
I'm 244 pounds 5'8 and 16% fat at the moment

Think that's what Mike meant, just added the 90 to your 100 grams of whole protein.

Someone please correct me if I'm wrong, as it's been a little while since I read in depth on EAAs but wouldn't 1 gram equate to 1 gram of protein since your body will produce the 11 non essential amino acids to complete the protein?

I'm sure in actuality one's body wouldn't be able to effectively complete super high amounts on essential amino acids every day (just because it's a more complex process than digesting a complete protein - never seen proof in studies on it), but in theory it should.

I do like to know this lol. Cause I'm going off 5grams EAA equals around 15grams.

Am also curious about this. If I remember correctly back when there were a bunch of threads on humapro (ALRI's EAA product), Knight9 and other guys were saying that 5g of humapro is "equivalent" to around 25g of whole food protein.

There was a lot of debate around this, but I'm curious what people have to say about it?

A number of guys have dropped some (and a few guys dropped all) of their whole food protein for periods of time and substituted humapro in its place, and not a single of those guys reported losing muscle or gaining at a slower rate that I can recall..

Rex Feral is one of the best posters on this entire site and never bullshits about anything, and he spoke similarly positive about humapro (which I guess you could say the same thing for regular eaas as well).

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Surprised to hear so many positive comments. As someone else mentioned Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, Eric Helms and others have all stated based on meta-analyses on the subject that the evidence does not support any benefit from BCAAs.

Yes Layne Norton does support then because he sells them and because he doesn't want to look like his PhD was a waste lol also keep in mind there is a huge difference between measuring acute protein synthesis and measuring long term muscle gain.

I've taken BCAAs and Humapro on multiple occasions and never noticed a benefit. Seems others here really like them though and I've gotten them for free before so no harm in taking them.

I do think they could in theory allow you to eat less overall protein though

 

[TheOtherOne55]

I'm glad this discussion is going on.

It also brings up another interesting point of how much ACTUAL PROTEIN DO WE NEED. If anyone was paying attention to Matt Porter's recent experiment, he was running true Keto for quite awhile and keeping his protein low low...I'm talking like 70g for the whole day.

Another successful amateur BBer, Jonathan Irizarry (top guy at Nationals last year) is currently vegan and killing 500-600 grams of carbs and supplementing with aminos.

I think that tons of guys have digestion problems with powders without even knowing it. And it that could be fixed with more egg whites + real food + OVERALL lower protein + aminos, that would be great.

 

[MKSuccess500]

I'm glad this discussion is going on.

It also brings up another interesting point of how much ACTUAL PROTEIN DO WE NEED. If anyone was paying attention to Matt Porter's recent experiment, he was running true Keto for quite awhile and keeping his protein low low...I'm talking like 70g for the whole day.

Another successful amateur BBer, Jonathan Irizarry (top guy at Nationals last year) is currently vegan and killing 500-600 grams of carbs and supplementing with aminos.

I think that tons of guys have digestion problems with powders without even knowing it. And it that could be fixed with more egg whites + real food + OVERALL lower protein + aminos, that would be great.

I agree. I think the 400+g of protein business is nonsense. Yes you'll get some people talking about how it's the key and it works so great, but you'll get even more people who don't do that. I used to eat 2g/lb for years....cut it down to 1g/lb and not only is it much cheaper and more enjoyable it also didn't hurt my results at all. If anything they improved.

When all of the science, the majority of anecdotes, and my own personal experience states 1g/lb is enough for maximal muscle growth (slightly more can be helpful when dieting) that's what I'm inclined to follow.

At some point I may even experiment with lower but for now 1g/lb is good.

 

[suppdude]

Carbs high = protein lower
Carbs low = protein higher

Pretty simple.

If not hitting 3-5 grams Leucine per meal from protein source, adding additional leucine would be wise IMO.


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[Cinder]

I'm glad this discussion is going on.

It also brings up another interesting point of how much ACTUAL PROTEIN DO WE NEED. If anyone was paying attention to Matt Porter's recent experiment, he was running true Keto for quite awhile and keeping his protein low low...I'm talking like 70g for the whole day.

Another successful amateur BBer, Jonathan Irizarry (top guy at Nationals last year) is currently vegan and killing 500-600 grams of carbs and supplementing with aminos.

I think that tons of guys have digestion problems with powders without even knowing it. And it that could be fixed with more egg whites + real food + OVERALL lower protein + aminos, that would be great.

Egg whites bother me as well. So it's food and aminos for me. Sadly I can't eat as much meat as I'd like to, so aminos it is.
I only use TN AMINOS. Idk who else sells legit EAA, and TN prices is unbeatable. Just wish they came heavily flavored

 

[Cinder]

Surprised to hear so many positive comments. As someone else mentioned Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, Eric Helms and others have all stated based on meta-analyses on the subject that the evidence does not support any benefit from BCAAs.

Yes Layne Norton does support then because he sells them and because he doesn't want to look like his PhD was a waste lol also keep in mind there is a huge difference between measuring acute protein synthesis and measuring long term muscle gain.

I've taken BCAAs and Humapro on multiple occasions and never noticed a benefit. Seems others here really like them though and I've gotten them for free before so no harm in taking them.

I do think they could in theory allow you to eat less overall protein though

Did u try them in place of protein powders or food.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Did u try them in place of protein powders or food.

I've tried them in place of protein powder, food, and in between. If there was a benefit, it wasn't enough to notice. If I got more for free I'd use it, why not, but I wouldn't spend money on them.

 

[DOGGCRAPP]

I'm glad this discussion is going on.

It also brings up another interesting point of how much ACTUAL PROTEIN DO WE NEED. If anyone was paying attention to Matt Porter's recent experiment, he was running true Keto for quite awhile and keeping his protein low low...I'm talking like 70g for the whole day.

Another successful amateur BBer, Jonathan Irizarry (top guy at Nationals last year) is currently vegan and killing 500-600 grams of carbs and supplementing with aminos.

I think that tons of guys have digestion problems with powders without even knowing it. And it that could be fixed with more egg whites + real food + OVERALL lower protein + aminos, that would be great.

Did they build their muscle mass like that? A question you should ask yourself. If big Ramy all of a sudden decided he is going to train like he usually does, juice like he usually does but eat 50 grams of protein a day and make up the rest of energy expenditure with good fats and carbs...do you think he is going to shrink away to a broomstick? No he is not. If a guy juices his gdamn ass off to the tune of 5 grams of sauce and 15 ius of gh for years to create a 300lb physique and then he says "im going to used 500mg of test a week now and 4ius of gh a day"...do you think he is going to disenegrate into a broomstick? No he is not because he did certain things (above) to build that muscle mass. Now in this conversation the journey of how someone got to the apex of their muscle mass.....and what they are doing currently.... because their mind has been convinced of a "health benefit of vegan eating" or whatever is being terribly confused.

Nothing against Matt but you saw Matt when he went clean correct? He disintegrated. When he went back on his size came back. How do you calculate that in anything other than "getting back on" regardless of how he is eating?

People are always looking for the newest trick or secret. Do you know how many successful vegan bodybuilders there have been? Not many at all. Just sit back and observe...thats all you need to do. Since the 1990's huge bodybuilders have taken in a good amount of protein with heavy weights with drugs to get gigantic. Hundred of thousands of them. I mean the proof is in the pudding....so many people have done this successfully over the last 3 decades its kind of proven itself out hasnt it? We just take what hundreds of thousands of bodybuilders have done over the last 27 years and chuck it because 2 guys have muscle memory on their sides?

 

[old timer]

My understanding of the current research is that a certain leucine threshold needs to be met to maximize MPS. And getting this somewhat spaced throughout the day in ~4 or so "meals/feedings" is better than 1-2 larger meals. So if you're eating sufficient protein spaced throughout the day, then leucine supplementation isn't going to improve things, so for those who saw an improvement after supplementing with leucine, I'm guessing that the supplementation either filled a hole of inadequate protein or filled in long gaps of no protein.

 

[Synthetik]

So many better anabolic tools to put the money towards

 

[Mike Arnold]

My understanding of the current research is that a certain leucine threshold needs to be met to maximize MPS. And getting this somewhat spaced throughout the day in ~4 or so "meals/feedings" is better than 1-2 larger meals. So if you're eating sufficient protein spaced throughout the day, then leucine supplementation isn't going to improve things, so for those who saw an improvement after supplementing with leucine, I'm guessing that the supplementation either filled a hole of inadequate protein or filled in long gaps of no protein.

There have been tons of studies showing that adding additional leucine to whole food meals...and even to whey protein (which liberates and releases leucine into the bloodstream much faster than whole food) results in superior increases in protein synthesis--always.

Why? Because when leucine is taken in free or peptide bonded form, it is released into the bloodstream in bolus fashion, resulting in a large spike in blood leucine concentrations. This spike is mandatory for maximizing protein synthesis...and it cannot be achieved with whole food because it digests too slowly. Whole food, such as meat (regardless of how much you eat at a time), takes many hours to digest, so the aminos (leucine) within it are slowly liberated and released into the bloodstream over several hours. While this provides excellent anti-catabolic benefits, it provides a much smaller increase in protein synthesis. Only by maximizing both protein synthesis and anti-catabolic activity can we accumulate muscle tissue as quickly as possible.

In my opinion, the best way to achieve this is by consuming large quantities of slower digesting (whole food) proteins in combination with supplemental leucine.

This new theory that says "leucine doesn't matter" is ridiculous in my opinion. There is so much research on leucine. We know that leucine is the primary amino responsible for turning on protein synthesis...and we also know that the higher and more prolonged protein synthesis is, the greater our growth "potential" is. Of course, there are many other factors outside of leucine mediated protein synthesis which determine our rate of growth, but to discount leucine's value, given everything we know about it, seems absolutely silly to me.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

There have been tons of studies showing that adding additional leucine to whole food meals...and even to whey protein (which liberates and releases leucine into the bloodstream much faster than whole food) results in superior increases in protein synthesis--always.

Why? Because when leucine is taken in free or peptide bonded form, it is released into the bloodstream in bolus fashion, resulting in a large spike in blood leucine concentrations. This spike is mandatory for maximizing protein synthesis...and it cannot be achieved with whole food because it digests too slowly. Whole food, such as meat (regardless of how much you eat at a time), takes many hours to digest, so the aminos (leucine) within it are slowly liberated and released into the bloodstream over several hours. While this provides excellent anti-catabolic benefits, it provides a much smaller increase in protein synthesis. Only by maximizing both protein synthesis and anti-catabolic activity can we accumulate muscle tissue as quickly as possible.

In my opinion, the best way to achieve this is by consuming large quantities of slower digesting (whole food) proteins in combination with supplemental leucine.

This new theory that says "leucine doesn't matter" is ridiculous in my opinion. There is so much research on leucine. We know that leucine is the primary amino responsible for turning on protein synthesis...and we also know that the higher and more prolonged protein synthesis is, the greater our growth "potential" is. Of course, there are many other factors outside of leucine mediated protein synthesis which determine our rate of growth, but to discount leucine's value, given everything we know about it, seems absolutely silly to me.

How many legitimate studies have you seen showing leucine / BCAA supplementation to actually increase muscle growth in individuals already eating a high protein diet? Not acute protein synthesis, muscle gain.

 

[LedShotter]

@homonunculus Could you and JP talk about this on the podcast?

 

[homonunculus]

@homonunculus Could you and JP talk about this on the podcast?

Sure!

Post up a question (you know where, I think).

-S