MEGADOSING LEUCINE

[tren_plz]

Say you eat chicken breast at 7am, how long will the blood be saturated with eeas?

 

[KillerStack]

Just wanted to post this FB post here in case someone is interested. I thought the ensuing discussion was interesting, it has highly regarded nutrition experts Alan Aragorn, Lyle McDonald (whom I love), Schoenfeld, Stuart Phillips etc agreeing that BCAAs are useless, possibly counterproductive (!). They see no situation where they would be warranted based on the current scientific evidence. Not in low cal diets, not preworkout, intraworkout, postworkout, between meals, never

Lyle summed it up like this:

There's no debate.

Whole protein > isolated EAA > isolated BCAA which are shit

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156524627294992&id=727634991

.

 

[RamboStallone]

Just wanted to post this FB post here in case someone is interested. I thought the ensuing discussion was interesting, it has highly regarded nutrition experts Alan Aragorn, Lyle McDonald (whom I love), Schoenfeld, Stuart Phillips etc agreeing that BCAAs are useless, possibly counterproductive (!). They see no situation where they would be warranted based on the current scientific evidence. Not in low cal diets, not preworkout, intraworkout, postworkout, between meals, never

Lyle summed it up like this:





https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=10156524627294992&id=727634991

.

Studies have shown aminos to be inferior to whole proteins, and it makes perfect sense. Whey is a complete protein and the only protein supplement I spend my money on.

 

[KillerStack]

Studies have shown aminos to be inferior to whole proteins, and it makes perfect sense. Whey is a complete protein and the only protein supplement I spend my money on.

Whey is good stuff, unless you don't tolerate it well. I would really call it a food, though some oldtimers don't agree.

As Lyle said in the thread, whey is 50% EAAs of which 20-25% are BCAAs.

 

[IronSlag]

BCAA aren't shit, that's a ridiculous comment for that man to make. Unilateral ingestion of BCAA is shit. However, seldom do individuals consume 'just' BCAA. They are instead usually consumed in close proximity to a wholefood protein source. In this way, the BCAA serve to fortify the wholefood meal.

 

[KillerStack]

BCAA aren't shit, that's a ridiculous comment for that man to make. Unilateral ingestion of BCAA is shit. However, seldom do individuals consume 'just' BCAA. They are instead usually consumed in close proximity to a wholefood protein source. In this way, the BCAA serve to fortify the wholefood meal.

Take a look at the discussion in the FB thread if you didn't. Those guys in the thread are some of the most highly regarded nutrition experts when it comes to nutrition as it relates to athletes. Some are published scientists. They simply can't see the usefulness of BCAA supplements, whether "to fortify meals" or otherwise, based on all available research thus far.

Lyle, who made that comment, is extremely knowledgeable, even those who hate his personality always acknowledge it so whatever he says is very very rarely ridiculous. I have pretty much never seen him proven wrong, very highly regarded dude. Of course there is the argument that scientists don't know shit when it comes to athletes and athletes instinctively know "things" which science hasn't proven yet. Maybe, sometimes this has been the case, but that is something else. They are talking about scientific evidence thus far.

They certainly have considered that BCAAs or Leucine aren't taken in isolation.

 

[Deleted member 106824]

Take a look at the discussion in the FB thread if you didn't. Those guys in the thread are some of the most highly regarded nutrition experts when it comes to nutrition as it relates to athletes. Some are published scientists. They simply can't see the usefulness of BCAA supplements, whether "to fortify meals" or otherwise, based on all available research thus far.

Lyle, who made that comment, is extremely knowledgeable, even those who hate his personality always acknowledge it so whatever he says is very very rarely ridiculous. I have pretty much never seen him proven wrong, very highly regarded dude. Of course there is the argument that scientists don't know shit when it comes to athletes and athletes instinctively know "things" which science hasn't proven yet. Maybe, sometimes this has been the case, but that is something else. They are talking about scientific evidence thus far.

They certainly have considered that BCAAs or Leucine aren't taken in isolation.

The difference is, guys like Eric Helms, Schoenfeld, etc are or were bodybuilders. They have a vested interest in finding what causes the most muscle growth in individuals and want every advantage they can get. They're not just some guys in a lab doing a bullshit study. If they can get a benefit from a supplement they'll take it. So they have no reason besides the evidence to be against isolated aminos.

Everyone can have their own opinion, doesn't matter to me, I think people should try a lot of these things on their own anyway and see what they think. But at the end of the day a lot of these researchers are just like us when it comes to the gym.

 

[MyNameIsJeff]

Most of the studies showing positive results for BCAAs are in fasted people who are severely protein-deficient in their regular diet. If you haven't eaten protein in 24h, guess what BCAA will have a positive effect. That doesn't mean that eating a whole protein source instead won't yield superior results.

 

[heavyhitter]

The difference is, guys like Eric Helms, Schoenfeld, etc are or were bodybuilders. They have a vested interest in finding what causes the most muscle growth in individuals and want every advantage they can get. They're not just some guys in a lab doing a bullshit study. If they can get a benefit from a supplement they'll take it. So they have no reason besides the evidence to be against isolated aminos.

Everyone can have their own opinion, doesn't matter to me, I think people should try a lot of these things on their own anyway and see what they think. But at the end of the day a lot of these researchers are just like us when it comes to the gym.

Exactly. Brad Schoenfeld specifically studies nutrition and ecercise in regards to hypertrophy. If he thought something enhanced hypertrophy he would recommend it

 

[KillerStack]

Most of the studies showing positive results for BCAAs are in fasted people who are severely protein-deficient in their regular diet. If you haven't eaten protein in 24h, guess what BCAA will have a positive effect. That doesn't mean that eating a whole protein source instead won't yield superior results.

I don't know about that

We can conclude from these two studies that BCAA infusion not only fails to increase the rate of muscle protein synthesis in human subjects, but actually reduces the rate of muscle protein synthesis and the rate of muscle protein turnover. The catabolic state was not reversed to an anabolic state in either study.

https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-017-0184-9

Certainly seems like the common idea of using bcaas before morning fasted cardio is a poor idea. EAA or complete protein would be better, if you believe in the idea of some type of fasted or semi-fasted cardio being superior for fat loss, which itself is suspect.

 

[Big Ian]

So I've read the full thread and have one question for @mike Arnold please.

I notice you say to take leucine about 20mins before eating whole food to maximise the response. Is this the same with whey like when I'm dieting? Or can you simply add it into the shake? Thanks

Great thread by the way chaps

 

[Muay Thai]

Dave Palumbo things taking in lots of bcaa's or even l-leucine throughout the day throws off the ratios. He believes in using aminos but mainly around training and in certain amounts.

Milos Sarvec believes in amino supplementation throughout the day.

Obviously many have strong opinions but those 2 guys I find most intriguing and they obviously contradict oneanother.

Personally, I 100% notice a difference when taking in either BCAA's or EAA's products (or a mix of the two) throughout the day. I build more muscle and simply look better.

I need to start doing it again consistently. I have Olimp EAA's and BCAA's so I will do a mix of the 2 (1 scoop bcaa's and 2 scoops eaa's). That way I will have a good balance but higher bcaa's (especially l-leucine) and drink them between meals.

I recommend guys try it especially if you are dieting. It's important to stay hydrated so this covers all bases especially for guys who get bored drinking plain water.

Just want to add there is no need to mega dose anything though. Have a good balance of aminos with approx 5g leucine at a time and you should be gtg. Drink 2 of those per day with your standard meals and hopefully you notice a difference.

elvia I am conjuring you up through my magic circle for your current sentiments on bcaas vs eaa's. Bcaas are so cheap , similar to glutamine, that while I am on insulin, I think they are also worth taking in addition to EAAs? Interesting facts on milos and palumbo thank you. I also see guys like Luki who have mentioned microdosing slin through the day in case incorporation of huge meal.

 

[Muay Thai]

I don't know about that



https://jissn.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12970-017-0184-9

Certainly seems like the common idea of using bcaas before morning fasted cardio is a poor idea. EAA or complete protein would be better, if you believe in the idea of some type of fasted or semi-fasted cardio being superior for fat loss, which itself is suspect.

fasted cardio as being more advantageous for fat loss is suspect? that is an against-the-grain theory, please elaborate.

also, are bcaa pills a total waste considering the small amount of total net grams yielded per serving?

 

[Elvia1023]

elvia I am conjuring you up through my magic circle for your current sentiments on bcaas vs eaa's. Bcaas are so cheap , similar to glutamine, that while I am on insulin, I think they are also worth taking in addition to EAAs? Interesting facts on milos and palumbo thank you. I also see guys like Luki who have mentioned microdosing slin through the day in case incorporation of huge meal.

BCAA's are highly inferior and I would always go with EAA's. By reason of the latest studies many think BCAA's are worthless but that isn't true for me. If they are used with a meal containing all the EAA's I think they are still useful. The fact many of us are eating protein containing meals throughout the day makes that easy. Although I would always recommend buying EAA's. You could add both but I would personally just go with a good EAA product. I use EAA's intra workout first and foremost but pretty much anytime I feel like it as well.

When someone is on various aids (especially microdosing insulin before meals) I think the addition of EAA's throughout the day can bring about noticeable benefits. I struggle to get in enough water and it's a constant battle so I always add in a scoop of EAA's for taste and the extra aminos between meals is never a bad thing. For glutamine I go with 10g first thing, intra workout and pre bed. The morning and pre bed servings are usually added to my greens powder. Glutamine has made a massive difference to my overall digestion. I think this approach can help anyone but the guys who are not as consistent with their diets (whole food) should notice even more effects over time.

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

since the body only utilizes four to five grams of leucine at a time it would make sense if you're getting three grams of leucine from a lean beef meal then you could just supplement two more grams of leucine with your BCAAs

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

I meant just take in BCAAs with that meal

something I've been doing is taking an eaas mbca's during training are you still only taking BCAAs during training intra nutrition

or if I'm there a long time I'll bring them like a ready to drink protein shake and just taking some extra branch in aminos I have a tub of them in my gym bag along with eaas along with creatine

 

[Muay Thai]

can you please recommend your preferred BCAA and EAA choices, amazon has tons of bcaa but only a few EAA and they are weak in doses it appears.

Perhaps go old school and just buy bulk raw unflavored raws and mix with koolaid packet? or focus on l-leucine (not iso-leucine I Read) + bcaas.

ty elvia I appreciate your valued feedback.

I have to drink 90% of my caloric intake. I have a haunting ongoing case of GERD. I have to take a grip of digestive enzymes etc. I also just realized my diet is low in sodium. Any suggestions are welcome brother

 

[Love_to_Bodybuild]

I prefer femented BCAAs, they cost more and not made from human hair, as most BCAAs are

 

[Chembody]

I do 15 grams leucine, 5 grams creatine,15 grams EAA and 5grams glutamine with 50grams karbolyn with a pinch of salt during workout.

 

[madg]

can you please recommend your preferred BCAA and EAA choices, amazon has tons of bcaa but only a few EAA and they are weak in doses it appears.

Perhaps go old school and just buy bulk raw unflavored raws and mix with koolaid packet? or focus on l-leucine (not iso-leucine I Read) + bcaas.

ty elvia I appreciate your valued feedback.

I have to drink 90% of my caloric intake. I have a haunting ongoing case of GERD. I have to take a grip of digestive enzymes etc. I also just realized my diet is low in sodium. Any suggestions are welcome brother

I use Nutrabio labs intra blast and i love it

It has everything , its fermented and no carbs since i like adding my own depending where i am in diet