Metformin net positive for muscle gains or negative?

[Sixfoottwo]

Currently in a gaining phase again and using 500 or 1000 mg of berberine on training days with some insulin around the workouts and use 1500 mg of berberine on off days. Keeps my fasted glucose between 3.5 a 4 so pretty happy if I can keep it that way throughout the bulk. Think the benefits of good blood glucose outweigh the possible effect on mtor.

 

[fredmac82]

The positives of metformin increasing insulin sensitivity outweigh the possible negative effects on mtor...which if you are taking AAS, GH, and Insulin, metformin-decreasing mtor wouldn't be something I would worry about. You got enough juice in you to counteract the effects.

 

[Mufasa123]

I'll just say that lots have bloods to support tren crushing igf. Mine went from 265 to 150s on same GH dose. I'd look at the overall and anecdotal reports from experienced and knowledgeable peers. Few have any issues here with metformin at reasonable doses.

 

[Elvia1023]

I am using it rn again , 500mg before bed unless i pin insulin late before night workout, in that case, should i take the metformin in the AM to clear out any glucose instead? do you recommend that?

Quite honestly I would just take it and not worry about insulin timing. It's active for a fair amount of time so even if you take it in the morning it will still be active later on. If dosing it once I would recommend pre bed even if you took insulin earlier in the night.

 

[hevi-head]

I’d swear it fucks my sex drive if I take it for awhile. I’ve only had it few times long term though

 

[Fat]

I use 2000mg daily and has made zero difference to gains, just health and anti-ageing benefits.

 

[buck]

I use 2000mg daily and has made zero difference to gains, just health and anti-ageing benefits.

What anti aging benifits have you experienced?

 

[slesh]

worrying that metformin will slow your gains while taking gh, insulin and a few grams of hormones at the same time is like driving a ferrari at 300km/h and worrying that a fly that will land on your headlight will slow you down

Lol well said. I’ve been on Metformin daily now for well over a year and while I’m no mass monster I’ve definitely had 12 months of solid lean tissue gains.

 

[Hyperemia]

Jay Cutler said he used it in place of insulin in an interview with Milos and he only made it to being Mr. O

 

[Fat]

What anti aging benifits have you experienced?

Lower IGF levels, which is correlated with life extension.

 

[Hyperemia]

Lower IGF levels, which is correlated with life extension.

You tested before and after? What were your numbers?

 

[totalrecomp]

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31816435/

Meta-Analysis
Pharmacol Res

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. 2020 Jan;151:104588. doi: 10.1016/j.phrs.2019.104588. Epub 2019 Dec 6.

The influence of metformin on IGF-1 levels in humans: A systematic review and meta-analysis​

Xiaodong Yang 1, Hamed Kord-Varkaneh 2, Sam Talaei 3, Cain C T Clark 4, Fernando Zanghelini 5, Shing Cheng Tan 6, Meysam Zarezadeh 7, Seyed Mohammad Mousavi 8, Jamal Rahmani 8, Yong Zhang 9
Affiliations expand

• PMID: 31816435
• DOI: 10.1016/j.phrs.2019.104588

Abstract​

Background: A meta-analysis is needed to comprehensively consolidate findings from the influence of metformin on IGF-1 levels. The present study was conducted with the objective to accurately evaluate the influence of metformin intake on IGF-1 levels via a meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials.
Methods: A comprehensive systematic search was carried out in PubMed/MEDLINE, Web of Science, SCOPUS and Embase from inception until June 2019. Weighted mean difference (WMD) with the 95 % CI were applied for estimating the effects of metformin on serum IGF-1 levels.
Results: 11 studies involving a total of 569 individuals reported changes in IGF-1 plasma concentrations as an outcome measure. Pooled results demonstrated an overall non-significant decline in IGF-1 following metformin intake (WMD: -8.292 ng/ml, 95 % CI: -20.248, 3.664, p = 0.174) with heterogeneity among (p = 0.000,I2 = 87.1 %). The subgroup analyses displayed that intervention duration <12 weeks on children (WMD:-55.402 ng/ml, 95 % CI: -79.845, -30.960, I2 = 0.0 %) significantly reduced IGF-1. Moreover, in age 18 < years older metformin intake (WMD: 15.125 ng/ml, 95 % CI: 5.522, 24.729, I2 = 92.5 %) significantly increased IGF-1 than 18 ≤ years older (WMD:-1.038 ng/ml, 95 % CI: -3.578,1.502,I2 = 78.0 %). Following dose-response evaluation, metformin intake reduced IGF-1 (coefficient for dose-response analysis= -13.14, P = 0.041 and coefficient for liner analysis= -0.066, P = 0.038) significantly based on treatment duration.
Conclusion: We found in children, intervention duration <12 weeks yielded significant reductions in IGF-1, whilst paradoxically, in participants >18 years old, metformin intake significantly increased IGF-1. We suggest that caution be taken when interpreting the findings of this review, particularly given the discordant supplementation practices between children and adults.

SO LOWERING OF ABOUT 8.00 NG/ML WORST CASE SCENARIO.



Meta-Analysis
Ageing Res Rev

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. 2020 Jan;57:100996. doi: 10.1016/j.arr.2019.100996. Epub 2019 Dec 6.

The influence of vitamin D supplementation on IGF-1 levels in humans: A systematic review and meta-analysis​

Hamed Kord-Varkaneh 1, Giulia Rinaldi 2, Azita Hekmatdoost 3, Somaye Fatahi 4, Shing Cheng Tan 5, Mahdi Shadnoush 1, Vahid Khani 6, Seyed Mohammad Mousavi 7, Meysam Zarezadeh 8, Shekoufeh Salamat 9, Hiba Bawadi 10, Jamal Rahmani 11
Affiliations expand

• PMID: 31816443
• DOI: 10.1016/j.arr.2019.100996

Abstract​

Background: Inconsistencies exist with regard to influence of vitamin D supplementation on IGF-1 levels. The inconsistencies could be attributed to several factors, such as dosage and duration of intervention, among others. To address these inconsistencies, this study was conducted to determine the impact of vitamin D supplementation on IGF-1 levels through a systematic review and meta-analysis of randomized controlled trials (RCTs).
Methods: A comprehensive systematic search was carried out in PubMed/MEDLINE, Web of Science, SCOPUS and Embase for RCTs that investigated the impact of vitamin D intake on circulating IGF-1 levels from inception until June 2019. Weighted mean difference (WMD) with the 95 % CI were applied for estimating combined effect size. Subgroup analysis was performed to specify the source of heterogeneity among studies.
Results: Pooled results from eight studies demonstrated an overall non-significant increase in IGF-1 following vitamin D supplementation (WMD: 4 ng/ml, 95 % CI: -4 to 11). However, a significant degree of heterogeneity among studies was observed (I2 = 66 %). The subgroup analyses showed that vitamin D dosage of ≤1000 IU/day (WMD: 10 ng/ml) significantly increased IGF-1 compared to the vitamin D dosage of <1000 IU/day (WMD: -1 ng/ml). Moreover, intervention duration ≤12 weeks (WMD: 11 ng/ml) significantly increased IGF-1 compared to intervention duration <12 weeks (WMD: -3 ng/ml). In the epidemiological cohort study, participants under 60 years of age with a higher dietary vitamin D intake had significantly higher IGF-1 levels when compared to those with lower dietary vitamin D intake in second categories.
Conclusion: The main results indicate a non-significant increase in IGF-1 following vitamin D supplementation. Additionally, vitamin D dosages of <1000 IU/day and intervention durations of <12 weeks significantly raised IGF-1 levels.


So taking GREATER than 1000iu of D a day increase IGF by 10ng/ml.

Stack that with basic training which we all do:

 

[totalrecomp]

Meta-Analysis
Complement Ther Med

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. 2020 May;50:102360. doi: 10.1016/j.ctim.2020.102360. Epub 2020 Feb 26.

The effect of resistance training on serum insulin-like growth factor 1(IGF-1): A systematic review and meta-analysis​

Qiang Jiang 1, Kai Lou 2, Lulu Hou 2, Yong Lu 3, Lizhi Sun 4, Shing Cheng Tan 5, Teck Yew Low 5, Hamed Kord-Varkaneh 6, Shuguang Pang 7
Affiliations expand

• PMID: 32444042
• DOI: 10.1016/j.ctim.2020.102360

Abstract​

Background: Data about the effects of resistance exercise on level of IGF-1 in the serum are conflicting. To resolve this inconsistency, we performed a systematic review and meta-analysis to precisely examine the effects of resistance exercise on the levels of serum IGF-1.
Methods: PubMed, Scopus, Web of Science, and Embase databases were systematically searched from their inceptions until 10 December 2019 for randomized controlled trials (RCTs) comparing individuals who underwent resistance training and control participants. We applied a random-effects model to calculate the weighted mean difference (WMD).
Results: 33 trials reported IGF-1 level as an outcome measure. The pooled estimate demonstrated a significant increase in IGF-1 (WMD: 10.34 ng/ml, 95 % CI: 4.93, 15.74, p = 0.000, I2 = 90.3 %) after resistance training compared with the control group. Subgroup analysis demonstrated that the increase in IGF-1 levels following resistance training was only statistically significant in treatment duration ≤16 weeks (WMD: 8.04 ng/ml), participants aged more than 60 years old (WMD: 9.84 ng/ml); and in women (WMD: 17.27 ng/ml). Subsequent analysis of the relationship between participants' age with plasma IGF-1 alterations revealed a U shape correlation in non-liner dose response, in which resistance training resulted in a declined IGF-1 level up to 40 years of age. Beyond 40 years old, the IGF-1 level was increased following resistance training.
Conclusion: We have successfully demonstrated that resistance training was associated with an increased IGF-1 level among those who received the training for ≤16 weeks, among participants older than 60 years old, and among women. Further studies are warranted to clarify the mechanisms underlying the influence of resistance training on IGF-1.

Based on the second red above we should all be concerned with TRAINING reducing IGF-1 if we are under 60 and training for greater than 16 weeks! OH NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!


TO SUMERIZE
So very small decrease seen in young people taking metformin and small increases seen with D intake and training.

Unless you have blood work on YOU showing a negative on your igf-1 level then sleep soundly my brothers and sisters.

 

[oxandrin]

I’d swear it fucks my sex drive if I take it for awhile. I’ve only had it few times long term though

Thats a new one to me. Been on it for years, have many friends on it, never faced sex drive issues. Were you taking 500mg BID? What was your dose?

 

[Lildawg]

These studies are on sedentary people. Hard training and gear increase MTOR. Not just bodybuilders but most athletes would see a benefit from using it.

Truth