Metformin

[swim15]

But what causes those improvements? Metformin improving insulin sensitivity. Those improvements from the insulin sensitivity

Yes except the metformin group still experienced those benefits. I definitely don’t think you could say it negates all benefits of exercise or even anything close to that really. Just some benefits.

As stated though other benefits like prevention of LVH alone trumps any amount of muscle imo because being huge doesn’t matter if you’re dead.

 

[nothuman]

So we have dudes like Luke Sandoe and I'm are other pros that use Metformin. Yes I know genetics, gear, blah blah. But if it really is causing that much of a negative impact on bodybuilding, why would pros use it?

The studies on it being anti hormetic and reducing hypertrophy are pretty new. We didn't know about these things a year ago. I was going wild with Metformin up to 2000mg a day for a few years until the newer studies have given me pause.

For me personally, I really work so hard training in a way at the gym that is most impactful for my health so I do have to fear Metformin's potential anti hormesis (aka health benefits of exercise) effects.

I guess it's different for someone who just wants to do heavy cycles, not do much cardio, and just gain as much mass as possible. I can't imagine it would hurt them as much. Plus it prevents LVH which is huge for that population. Metformin didn't stop me from regaining tons of muscle memory on a heavy cycle several years ago.

 

[b-boy]

500 twice per day is plenty for me. Anymore and I have to take a nap.

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^^^ I agree 500 twice per day is plenty for me

 

[Elvia1023]

I think people just need to use some common sense with this. It's about weighing up the pro/con's and you decide what is most important to you. Do I think 500-1000mg metformin per day is going to significantly disrupt someone's results... definitely not. If you are eating well, training hard and taking aas I think you are gtg. For the guys on the fence simply don't take it or just use a lower dose (500mg pre bed for example). I only use 500mg pre bed and I haven't noticed any negative impact on training. Plus I cycle this stuff on/off all the time so I have had many opportunities to notice if there is a difference in performance.

 

[Joltan]

I didn't read this whole study from start to end, but I didn't see anywhere where it said that the subjects were in a caloric surplus.

If NOT in a surplus, all it shows is that weight training doesn't have a re-composition effect. What happens when the subjects are in a caloric surplus? If Metformin really blunts hypertrophy, than it would show an increase in body fat, rather than lean body mass.

So, the study might not be relevant for bodybuilders or those looking to add lean body mass. But, if you just eat at maintenance, don't expect to turn fat into muscle.

 

[whacked]

Nail on head

How many people here are either making serious money, as in greater than 25% of their income, off bodybuilding or competing at the level of final call-outs at the pro level? Not many.

Metformin has tons of positive benefits and unless someone seriously stands to gain from incremental amounts of muscle mass then the potential lengthing of life span and other benefits significantly outweigh what probably wouldn’t even add up to be a couple pounds of muscle...priorities

 

[whacked]

A few considerations:

Increased insulin sensitivity / reduced insulin resistance = improved shuttling of nutrients to muscle and away from fat = improves aesthetics (and overall health).

Increased protein intake (and Leucine) = negates some of the reduced mTOR signaling.

Anabolics = counter reduced IGF-1 signaling.

Weight training = Ditto

rHGH use = Ditto

—————————————————-

Metformin and/or Berberine confer so many health benefits and as such, are invaluable weapons in a bb’ers arsenal IMHO

Other things that are potentially catastrophic to muscle gain that are rarely addressed? Lack of adequate sleep, stress, over-training, some medications, fat mass from being insulin resistant, poor diet (insufficient protein, calories or eating processed BS), not providing the body with micronutrients needed for optimal function (vitamins, minerals, anti-ox’s and anti-inflam’s to protect against catabolic events), dehydration, poor training techniques.......)

Before ditching a product like Metformin or Berberine, address the other glaring issues that also have potential muscle-mass reducing consequences.

 

[morepain]

https://peterattiamd.com/nirbarzilai/

i enjoyed this podcast on the subject, i will take metformin for life , no question, i feel the same way about Deprenyl (another subject obviously)

I have been a proponent for many years from the time Life Extension Foundation first pointed out the benefits. One thing is for certain, and i am not knocking anyone trust me i was there for most of my life. But as long as your primary goal in life is bodybuilding and being huge regardless of cost. You will simply not be making good life decisions. We all come to this realization at some point (the ones that live anyway). And when it comes you will know it, you will be ready to see it for what it always was. And again please i mean no disrespect i spent 30 years in bodybuilding for i came to terms with just how borderline insane it all was. We all have our own path

 

[b-boy]

A few considerations:

Increased insulin sensitivity / reduced insulin resistance = improved shuttling of nutrients to muscle and away from fat = improves aesthetics (and overall health).

Increased protein intake (and Leucine) = negates some of the reduced mTOR signaling.

Anabolics = counter reduced IGF-1 signaling.

Weight training = Ditto

rHGH use = Ditto

—————————————————-

Metformin and/or Berberine confer so many health benefits and as such, are invaluable weapons in a bb’ers arsenal IMHO

Other things that are potentially catastrophic to muscle gain that are rarely addressed? Lack of adequate sleep, stress, over-training, some medications, fat mass from being insulin resistant, poor diet (insufficient protein, calories or eating processed BS), not providing the body with micronutrients needed for optimal function (vitamins, minerals, anti-ox’s and anti-inflam’s to protect against catabolic events), dehydration, poor training techniques.......)

Before ditching a product like Metformin or Berberine, address the other glaring issues that also have potential muscle-mass reducing consequences.

^^^^^BINGO! SPOT ON!

 

[Dagreasyitalian]

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5839379/

 

[buck]

https://peterattiamd.com/nirbarzilai/

i enjoyed this podcast on the subject, i will take metformin for life , no question, i feel the same way about Deprenyl (another subject obviously)

I have been a proponent for many years from the time Life Extension Foundation first pointed out the benefits. One thing is for certain, and i am not knocking anyone trust me i was there for most of my life. But as long as your primary goal in life is bodybuilding and being huge regardless of cost. You will simply not be making good life decisions. We all come to this realization at some point (the ones that live anyway). And when it comes you will know it, you will be ready to see it for what it always was. And again please i mean no disrespect i spent 30 years in bodybuilding for i came to terms with just how borderline insane it all was. We all have our own path

I got interested in BB'ing in the very early 70's when being big, strong and healthy was at least the illusion or what BB'ing was about. And I have always held onto that idea to a degree. More so as time goes on. I have followed LEF for about 20 years now and have learned much from them.

 

[Allday]

Yes except the metformin group still experienced those benefits. I definitely don’t think you could say it negates all benefits of exercise or even anything close to that really. Just some benefits.

As stated though other benefits like prevention of LVH alone trumps any amount of muscle imo because being huge doesn’t matter if you’re dead.

My bad, I realized I wasn't clear in my response. That was my point. I do believe that those health benefits come from improved insulin sensitivity which is likely attributed to the effects that come from metformin.

I just meant that people often see these and think it's the perfect bodybuilding drug because of those benefits, but running it year round, non-stop could be hindering muscle gain.

To any substantial amount? Who knows. I just think that the ideal use is the same as using gear, gh, slin, etc. Blasting and staying on high levels non-stop won't be as ideal for long term progress and health as balancing (pushing doses and backing off/taking time off) it and knowing that staying on any drug indefinitely isn't really ideal unless it's medically necessary.

 

[G-FLUX]

This podcast covered pretty much everything for metformin IMHO

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-complete-metformin-guide/id1065532968?i=1000452061483

 

[johnjuanb1]

They have my dad on 1,000mg twice a day for diabetes.

 

[Ashop]

500 twice per day is plenty for me. Anymore and I have to take a nap.

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METFORMIN rips my stomach apart. Explosive diarrhea non stop. I've been looking into Berberine but I've heard some saying it had similar stomach disturbances in some.

 

[Knight9]

METFORMIN rips my stomach apart. Explosive diarrhea non stop. I've been looking into Berberine but I've heard some saying it had similar stomach disturbances in some.

Use the ER/XR version.

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[whacked]

None here

I've been looking into Berberine but I've heard some saying it had similar stomach disturbances in some.

 

[aphextwin]

Like I've said before, I won't ever stop using Met. There's just so many benefits.

 

[LEX]

I am still on Met, I think the mtor effects would be impactful if I was an untrained 65year old man with low hormone levels.
My igf levels are high normal range, exo test is reasonable under 300 week.
Every time I go off Met I just see some slight inflammation come back, and it helps me stay leaner with less effort. I have cut back but stay on 1G all the time. None of the new data has changed my mind. but its an open mind, however, that data has to be stronger than what I am experiencing as positive benefits IRL or at least the thoeretical threat of negative impact has to outweigh. Also take b vits and coq10 kids.

 

[TNotch347]

This podcast covered pretty much everything for metformin IMHO

https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-complete-metformin-guide/id1065532968?i=1000452061483

Damn that was a good one,