Mid Cycle Bloodwork

[neutrino]

Presently I am on week 15 of what I had planned on being a 26-week cycle. The bloodwork that you see below was taken 3 weeks ago (labs were super backlogged on E2 testing and I just received final results this morning).

What I am currently running:

• Test U: 175mg/10 days
• Test E: 1,000mg/wk
• EQ: 300mg/wk
• Insulin: 7-10iu/day (M-F)
• GH: 10iu/day
• Reta: 2mg/wk

Decided to run mid-cycle bloodwork. Below you will see highlights of markers that were out of range, followed by the actual bloodwork.

• Creatinine (high)/eGFR (low)
  • This is typical but decided to follow up with eGFR/Cystatin C assy on the following day (have always wanted to run Cystatin, but typically it is very expensive. Found on sale for like $40).
    • Everything came out normal – I attribute initial OOR results to hydration issue.
• Carbon Dioxide(high)
  • Not sure what to make of this. In 5 years of regular blood work I have never seen this marker OOR.
• AST (high)/ALT(high)
  • Have never seen these so “far” out of range, even when using orals. That being said, I am training harder than I ever have before. Even though these numbers are not troubling by any means, I took some measures because why not?
    • Threw in 600mg of TUDCA daily that I have had sitting around for ages to help the liver out.
• White Blood Cell Count (low)
  • Have never seen this out of range and have no idea why it is happening. I did get sick in the days leading up to this test, so perhaps this is the cause?
• Hematocrit(high)/MCV (high)
  • Slightly out of range – this is on par with being “on” and not surprising nor concerning.
• Growth Hormone(high)
  • To be expected, considering I am running 10iu daily
• FSH (low)/LH(low)
  • I did not measure these on purpose – seems like the company I do this with added them to the assy I have been ordering for years.
• Testosterone Total/Free (high)
  • Very pleased with this. I have seen total test close to this number in the past with a smaller dose of 700, but I have never hit a free test level of 2.5k.
• IGF (almost high)
  • Was really looking forward to seeing where this sat. My IGF has always been right in the middle, no matter what I have ran. This is my first time running insulin and GH together and I am very happy with this result!
• E2 (slightly above range)
  • I think it would be wise to let this creep up a bit, considering proportionality to test levels. I can tolerate e2 up to 100 without issues. Considering dropping EQ by 100mg to 200mg/wk.

I feel great, my weight keeps going up, and my training continues to progress. I am a little more than halfway past a 100ml bottle of Test E and my plan was to just keep going till I run out, which will be sometime in December right before Christmas. This morning I weighed in at 229.9. I started the cycle at 205. Average weekly gain is 1.6lb. I have been using the mirror as the judge for how fat I am getting and I am not seeing much detectable fat gain. This is the first time I have had such a successful bulk and I am beyond ecstatic that I will not have to spend half a year cutting down from “obese” when this is done.

Given the results of the bloodwork, the way I feel/look, and my continuous progress in the gym, I see no reason to cut the cycle short for the time being – what do you guys think?.

New update: late last week I found out I have a hernia after discovering a lump in mid abdomen and taking a week off of training until I saw a doc. Ordered BPC and TB right away and will likely have surgery in the coming 1-2 months. For time being, I will wear a hernia belt. Current line of thinking is to keep training hard but cautiously until surgery, and then – if surgery occurs while still on cycle – leverage it as a “mini-cut” – and then resume regular weight training.

 

[massephase]

I can't comment on the white blood cell count, but other than that, those values look very good to me.

Did you train the day before the blood work (or even two days before)? I am asking because I have had AST and ALT skyrocket (like 400, 500, 600+) before just from doing unusually traumatic stuff to my calves that left me unable to walk for a couple of days. Those two can go up from muscle damage and if you train hard, you always have a degree of damaged musculature.

 

[luki7788]

Everything is great, and any deviations are completely normal for a training person - there's nothing to worry about.

You're as healthy as a horse.

 

[neutrino]

I can't comment on the white blood cell count, but other than that, those values look very good to me.

Did you train the day before the blood work (or even two days before)? I am asking because I have had AST and ALT skyrocket (like 400, 500, 600+) before just from doing unusually traumatic stuff to my calves that left me unable to walk for a couple of days. Those two can go up from muscle damage and if you train hard, you always have a degree of damaged musculature.

Yes, I did. I do moderate cardio 7 days a week and lift Monday-Friday. This was pulled on a Saturday morning.

 

[neutrino]

Everything is great, and any deviations are completely normal for a training person - there's nothing to worry about.

You're as healthy as a horse.

Thank you for your input. I just have do deal with this damn hernia - will find out when surgery will be when I see the doc this friday. For now I am playing it safe and using a hernia belt.

 

[Swifto]

I think your bloods look great, well done.

 

[Spiro]

Thank you for your input. I just have do deal with this damn hernia - will find out when surgery will be when I see the doc this friday. For now I am playing it safe and using a hernia belt.

How long is recovery from hernia surgery, if you talked it with a doc?

 

[neutrino]

How long is recovery from hernia surgery, if you talked it with a doc?

Haven't talked to doc yet. Not sure where you are from, but here in the US with most health insurance you have to go to a primary doctor and get a referral for a specialist/surgeon. The primary doc already confirmed my suspicion last week: I do have a hernia. This week I go for a consult with the surgeon and will find out more.

It is a robotics-assisted surgery so incision should be very small. Primary doc told me ~2 weeks recovery. A friend that had the robotics-assisted surgery a couple years back said up to 6 weeks. I have a few kits of GH, TB, and BPC that say less I would imagine recovery time probably also depends on location and scope of hernia too. I will know more in 3 days.

 

[neutrino]

I think your bloods look great, well done.

I am honestly shocked. I expected at least cholesterol panel to be crap. Not sure if its the daily cardio, OTC supplements, and/or Reta. But whatever it is - its working well. Maybe its a matter of the old adage "test is best"....

 

[luki7788]

How long is recovery from hernia surgery, if you talked it with a doc?

The guys are returning to training a few days after surgery - ask @d4ve he recently had a hernia operation

 

[neutrino]

The guys are returning to training a few days after surgery - ask @d4ve he recently had a hernia operation

This is excellent news! @d4ve could you please chime in on hernia surgery recovery?

 

[d4ve]

This is excellent news! @d4ve could you please chime in on hernia surgery recovery?

Oh yea that was almost a year ago at this point - I think it was October 1st of last year.

Surgery week:
Monday before the operation - trained normally.
Tuesday - surgery in the morning. Ate and rested afterwards.
Wednesday & Thursday - no training, just got ~10k steps. Very minimal pain tbh. Excellent surgeon.
Friday - Light upper body work
Saturday - Light upper body work (would normally be leg day)
Sunday - no training, just steps

Next week: Back to training, slightly modified to avoid bracing. First leg day was 11 days post-op (Saturday) - went a bit lighter but had a decent session. No pain

Week after: Training back to normal

Caveat - "All" I had was an umbilical hernia, no inguinal to address at the same time. So it was a simple operation by a great surgeon.

I kept GH at 10iu as it had been for a long time and loaded up on BPC-157 - I think I did 2mg per day for 5 days and then 1mg per day for another 5 days.

 

[neutrino]

Thanks! Yeah I have BPC an

Oh yea that was almost a year ago at this point - I think it was October 1st of last year.

Surgery week:
Monday before the operation - trained normally.
Tuesday - surgery in the morning. Ate and rested afterwards.
Wednesday & Thursday - no training, just got ~10k steps. Very minimal pain tbh. Excellent surgeon.
Friday - Light upper body work
Saturday - Light upper body work (would normally be leg day)
Sunday - no training, just steps

Next week: Back to training, slightly modified to avoid bracing. First leg day was 11 days post-op (Saturday) - went a bit lighter but had a decent session. No pain

Week after: Training back to normal

Caveat - "All" I had was an umbilical hernia, no inguinal to address at the same time. So it was a simple operation by a great surgeon.

I kept GH at 10iu as it had been for a long time and loaded up on BPC-157 - I think I did 2mg per day for 5 days and then 1mg per day for another 5 days.

Thanks! Yeah I have BPC and TB on the way. Never used em, but now is the perfect time. Gh will remain at 10iu.

 

[Josefein421]

Everything is great, and any deviations are completely normal for a training person - there's nothing to worry about.

You're as healthy as a horse.

Is there a great need or benefit to dropping to TRT range then at all seeing as health is perfect while at peak dosages for him? Barring wanting to restore HPTA dont we just cruise to give the body a break or have a period of better health.. so if health is great via labs and he feels good...??

I ask mostly as I am itching to push again but am on a cruise myself. But labs were the best they've ever been on last push. Everything but HDL in range. EKG, BP, Coronary CT, chest x ray, echo... all perfect. So why dont I just keep pushing lol

 

[luki7788]

Is there a great need or benefit to dropping to TRT range then at all seeing as health is perfect while at peak dosages for him? Barring wanting to restore HPTA dont we just cruise to give the body a break or have a period of better health.. so if health is great via labs and he feels good...??

I ask mostly as I am itching to push again but am on a cruise myself. But labs were the best they've ever been on last push. Everything but HDL in range. EKG, BP, Coronary CT, chest x ray, echo... all perfect. So why dont I just keep pushing lol

Everyone chooses for themselves and takes the possible risk themselves, but honestly, we don't know anyone who goes down to real TRT ever.

 

[neutrino]

Everyone chooses for themselves and takes the possible risk themselves, but honestly, we don't know anyone who goes down to real TRT ever.

I spend months on real trt every year. At least 4-6 months. 175mg test u/10 days, nothing else. Not sure what you mean by real TRT, maybe im mistaken

 

[neutrino]

Is there a great need or benefit to dropping to TRT range then at all seeing as health is perfect while at peak dosages for him? Barring wanting to restore HPTA dont we just cruise to give the body a break or have a period of better health.. so if health is great via labs and he feels good...??

I ask mostly as I am itching to push again but am on a cruise myself. But labs were the best they've ever been on last push. Everything but HDL in range. EKG, BP, Coronary CT, chest x ray, echo... all perfect. So why dont I just keep pushing lol

There is a theory I subscribe to regarding the benefits of going off, despite good bloods: organ and tissue maintenance/repair. A constantly-present and dominating anabolic signaling makes the body prioritize muscle growth, while organ repair and maintenance take a back seat. Thus, we hop down to normal or near normal levels to allow the body time to handle the important stuff.

Not sure how true that is, but it makes sense

 

[luki7788]

I spend months on real trt every year. At least 4-6 months. 175mg test u/10 days, nothing else. Not sure what you mean by real TRT, maybe im mistaken

There is a theory I subscribe to regarding the benefits of going off, despite good bloods: organ and tissue maintenance/repair. A constantly-present and dominating anabolic signaling makes the body prioritize muscle growth, while organ repair and maintenance take a back seat. Thus, we hop down to normal or near normal levels to allow the body time to handle the important stuff.

Not sure how true that is, but it makes sense

Man, don’t take this as an insult or anything like that, but what I meant was really big guys. You’re not a big guy yet. I’m talking about bodybuilders who are at least 240–250 lbs on stage or more.

Also, the theory you talk about comes from one of those popular YouTubers. It’s the dumbest theory I ever heard. The body does not have one pathway for building muscle and a separate pathway for organ recovery. That’s complete nonsense.

 

[neutrino]

Man, don’t take this as an insult or anything like that, but what I meant was really big guys. You’re not a big guy yet. I’m talking about bodybuilders who are at least 240–250 lbs on stage or more.

Also, the theory you talk about comes from one of those popular YouTubers. It’s the dumbest theory I ever heard. The body does not have one pathway for building muscle and a separate pathway for organ recovery. That’s complete nonsense.

No offense taken man - we are here to discuss without getting into our emotions, especially when the point(s) being made are valid.

I am not sure where I heard about this theory, but it definitely was not a popular YouTube channel - I do not follow those. It is possible it was repeated by a popular YouTube channel. Idea was that satellite cells can be repurposed to be any cell. When the bulk of your satellite cells are going towards building muscle, they are not being used for organ maintenance.

Regardless of whether you believe it or not, it is undeniable that taking time off is wise.

 

[luki7788]

No offense taken man - we are here to discuss without getting into our emotions, especially when the point(s) being made are valid.

I am not sure where I heard about this theory, but it definitely was not a popular YouTube channel - I do not follow those. It is possible it was repeated by a popular YouTube channel. Idea was that satellite cells can be repurposed to be any cell. When the bulk of your satellite cells are going towards building muscle, they are not being used for organ maintenance.

Regardless of whether you believe it or not, it is undeniable that taking time off is wise.

I can give many arguments why this theory has nothing to do with reality. The first and best one is that if it was true, then androgens would never be used in medicine to treat different diseases. But they were, and for a very long time. So it already goes against itself, right?

But like I said, everyone chooses what to do, and it’s only their business.