Mid Cycle Bloodwork

[neutrino]

I can give many arguments why this theory has nothing to do with reality. The first and best one is that if it was true, then androgens would never be used in medicine to treat different diseases. But they were, and for a very long time. So it already goes against itself, right?

But like I said, everyone chooses what to do, and it’s only their business.

Key word here is were. Many treatments formerly mediated by androgens have been replaced with more advanced drugs. And very few treatments prescribed androgen use for an indefinite (permanent) period of time, especially at supra-physiological/bodybuilding dosages.

Just because something was used in medicine for a long time, does not mean emerging research and evidence cannot suggest counter productivity. Strong example: cigarettes used to be recommended by doctors. Now, we know better.

 

[luki7788]

Key word here is were. Many treatments formerly mediated by androgens have been replaced with more advanced drugs. And very few treatments prescribed androgen use for an indefinite (permanent) period of time, especially at supra-physiological/bodybuilding dosages.

Just because something was used in medicine for a long time, does not mean emerging research and evidence cannot suggest counter productivity. Strong example: cigarettes used to be recommended by doctors. Now, we know better.

Ok, you're partly right, but it doesn't change the fact that at the pro/top amateur level - if someone goes down to TRT or pseudo-TRT (400-700mg), it's a very short phase, usually 4-8 weeks once a year after the entire competitive season - if you want to be at a high level, you have to deal with the consequences - that's all I'm talking about

 

[neutrino]

Ok, you're partly right, but it doesn't change the fact that at the pro/top amateur level - if someone goes down to TRT or pseudo-TRT (400-700mg), it's a very short phase, usually 4-8 weeks once a year after the entire competitive season - if you want to be at a high level, you have to deal with the consequences - that's all I'm talking about

Speaking of this - I have always been curious on this matter and would appreciate your input. How do you go about deciding "ok, I am now too big for normal TRT"? Is it a matter of experimenting. For example - do you just continue with normal TRT until you reach a time that you notice you begin losing lean tissue, and then decide that a higher TRT dose is needed for maintenance?

Never was sure how the bigger guys eventually come to the decision that they need 200/300+ to maintain....

 

[luki7788]

Speaking of this - I have always been curious on this matter and would appreciate your input. How do you go about deciding "ok, I am now too big for normal TRT"? Is it a matter of experimenting. For example - do you just continue with normal TRT until you reach a time that you notice you begin losing lean tissue, and then decide that a higher TRT dose is needed for maintenance?

Never was sure how the bigger guys eventually come to the decision that they need 200/300+ to maintain....

You answered your own question – a few weeks on true TRT and you start losing size very quickly.

It's obvious that you won't maintain muscle mass built on supraphysiological hormone doses while returning to normal levels. It's like taking out a $2,000 a month mortgage on a house, and while you were taking it, you were earning $4,000, but then you suddenly change jobs and only earn $2,000 a month, so it's logical that you won't be able to keep the house long because you won't have enough money for the payments – logical?

 

[neutrino]

You answered your own question – a few weeks on true TRT and you start losing size very quickly.

It's obvious that you won't maintain muscle mass built on supraphysiological hormone doses while returning to normal levels. It's like taking out a $2,000 a month mortgage on a house, and while you were taking it, you were earning $4,000, but then you suddenly change jobs and only earn $2,000 a month, so it's logical that you won't be able to keep the house long because you won't have enough money for the payments – logical?

That is precisely the logic I would apply to myself. Asking because I see plenty of non-pro size people taking ridiculous TRT doses. Either they are lying, or per-emptively made the decision to mimic what the pros do, thinking it will get them pro-like results.

Never made sense to me. Thanks

 

[luki7788]

That is precisely the logic I would apply to myself. Asking because I see plenty of non-pro size people taking ridiculous TRT doses. Either they are lying, or per-emptively made the decision to mimic what the pros do, thinking it will get them pro-like results.

Never made sense to me. Thanks

Most people generally take too high doses (I did it myself) but that's a completely different topic

 

[Siggy]

You dont take statins of any kind?

 

[neutrino]

You dont take statins of any kind?

No. As far as lipid support goes I do: cardio 7 days/wk, 2mg/wk, 6g fish oil/day

 

[Josefein421]

I was asking tongue in cheek looking to justify only taking a few weeks at 200mg. But literally all my blood work was the best it has been and all those tests were perfect within the last year. So it was kind of a real thought too

 

[Swifto]

@Big Dave Smith can go down to TRT for "4-10 weeks" and is 250+

Your cruise dose

You need more GH than that - at your age that's not even a legitimate replacement dose. got it.. i'm ramping up as i assess effects. thats why you see the 0.75-1.5iu range. i just didnt want to start out at 2iu.

www.professionalmuscle.com

I don’t consider it a cruise until all gear is out besides test.

Depending on how heavy my cycle was, no shots of any kind for 2 weeks.

Once the 2 weeks are up, it’s test only.

My options
1- True TRT cruise. 150-200mg/wk. Everything within reference ranges on blood test (around 150mg will do that for me). RHR at its lowest. Blood pressure at its lowest. Usually I do this after what I consider a heavy cycle, or after just being on for too many months (4-5 months or more)

2- Moderate cruise. 200-250mg/wk. Test might be in the 800-1000 range. Free test slightly out of range. RBC/hematocrit within range.

3- Aggressive cruise. 250-300mg/wk. Test is 1000-1300 ng/dL. RBC/hematocrit might be a point high, but still fine. Might add in some proviron for sex drive and 10mg Aromasin EOD to minimize estrogen. Around 300mg I look like I’m back on cycle, but not a big cycle.

Each option is sort of a judgement call.

GH is either 0-2iu for options 1+2.
GH is 3-4iu for option 3.

I won’t go back on cycle till blood is perfect.

I consider a cycle a thing above this.

Anywhere from 4-10 weeks.
This next round I’m looking at 6-8 weeks.
I’m getting my blood work at that date to see if I need to continue cruising. If everything is great, I’ll go back on shortly after.